Female Pakistani Minister Murdered for not Wearing Veil

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Why is the killing of a woman being paraded as the fault of Islam?
Thats absolutely retarded!!

Its almost racist..

Islam is a religion, not a race so by definition it is not racist.

His Muslim cultural beliefs obviously had something to do with this crime, as virtually all members of most other religions would not kill a woman because she was involved in politics or didn't wear a veil. The only religion on Earth that shows a pattern of similar incidents among its followers is Islam.

That's the hard truth.

To deny it would be embracing ignorance.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Do we really need any more evidence that islam is a religion inspired by satan himself?

Why yes, prove Satan exists for starters. Just because you subscribe to an acient collection of Jewish stories and worship a deity created 3,500 years ago by desert dwelling goat herder's, doesn't mean the rest of us have too.

(If he is "The Lord thy God", why hadn't anyone heard of him prior to him showing up in Jewish mythology around 1500 BC? Not much of a "God". Plus, he smites them world several times for their sins, but never actually told anyone prior what was a sin and what wasn't!! I digress, anyway..)

Also, I laugh at the war-perv zealots here, who on one hand dismiss an entire religion because of a relatively small amount of crazed fools, when they're own President said he went into Iraq "because God told me too"..

Righto......

Well semperfoo, it will be the last time I address this crap because it's not on the subject and you obviously don't want to see the truth.

They opposed it! Yet they had intel (the same damn intel as ours) that said Iraq had WMDs. Along with the UN and UK which you dont seem to be questioning.

Well you didn't provided a source, I provided 10s.

And Russia intel was saying that some Iraqi 90s WMDs were unaccounted for, but that's FAR from the threat being portrayed by the US/UK propaganda.

Yea well, you watching 10 minutes of MSNBC a day an expert does not make..

I don't watch TV since 3 years, sorry.

So lets just jump to conclusions shall we? First of all how can you draw the conclusions that just because he wants to be a war time president (which as you state was a biography that can be easily fabricated, especially over the net) that that somehow correlates to the Iraqi war? What about Afghanistan? Where does it fit in?

Ok, let's say that he didn't said he wanted to be a war-time president. As I said before, the whole Iraq propaganda about WMDs were engineered, see links above and at the end of this post. The Iraq war was on lies, the only unit looking for Osama was disbanded, Bush said himself that Osama wasn't important, the borders are wide-open, the constitution and bill of rights doesn't exist anymore... and if you have an open-minded like the families of 9/11 victims have, you'll look at the 9/11 being inside job, and you'll wake up.

Lets just go ahead and get to the just of it all. You would rather just cut and run? Maybe your not an american.. A Euro possibly? We had had troops in Germany and Japan for 62 years, in South Korea for 54 years, and in Bosnia for 9 years. Should we not remove those first? Why are they not asking us to remove our troops? Iraq doesnt want us to remove our troops. They would welcom an increase of US troops. how about Afghanistan's? Your sending the wrong message. But when your under a paranoid delusion...I guess theres not much help for ya.

HAHAHAHAHA. Iraq doesn't want you to remove your troops, where do you live? Under the carpet?

Jailed - for showing dislike of US invaders
Thousands of Shiites, Sunnis Protest US Occupation, Clashes Break Out
Shia, Sunni, Protest US Occupation of Iraq
Millions demand end to Iraq occupation

Look for it, iraqis and the world wants you to GET OUT OF THERE, YOU AND YOUR TRILLION EMBASSY.

And other PROOF THAT THIS WAS ENGINEERED Blair-Bush deal before Iraq war revealed in secret memo

Bush and Blair made secret pact for Iraq war

Clarke's Take On Terror Look at this article, very interesting.

Bush Sought ‘Way’ To Invade Iraq?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Islam is a religion, not a race so by definition it is not racist.

No, but it is prejudice and religious discrimination, which is just as bad as racism.

His Muslim cultural beliefs obviously had something to do with this crime [...]

What part of Islam lead this man to believe he can kill someone? Please explain how that is part of his "Muslim cultural beliefs."

as virtually all members of most other religions would not kill a woman because she was involved in politics or didn't wear a veil.

Would you like me to provide you quotes from the Bible that allow stoning of women for not covering their head, because it's considered the same as adultery? Women in the US have barely had a chance to fully entered politics because of the sexism involved through out US's history. How many women have run for president, and yet haven't been elected?

When Muhammad taught Islam, one of his teachings was that women are to be allowed into politics and business, something that was frowned upon in pre-Islamic S.A. Look at early US history and see how much of a dominant influence men have had in the role of women in society.

The only religion on Earth that shows a pattern of similar incidents among its followers is Islam.

Most of the bombings on abortion clinics, harassments and murder of gays, and other murders are statistically caused by Christians, in the US, correct? The populations of prisoners in all of the jail cells, and all crimes committed are by Christians too, so the only religion that shows a similar pattern of incidents among its followers is Christianity. Am I right in assuming this?

That's the hard truth.
To deny it would be embracing ignorance.

And to use it as justification for being prejudice is also ignorance.

Once again a few one-off rare cases of religiously motivated crimes among other religions is being used as a smokescreen. Of course there are a few crazy Christians out there committing crimes due to their warped views of their religion. But these numbers are so miniscule compared to what is happening among Muslims that the comparison is at best laughable, at worst a willful disinformation and deflection campaign. Plus when someone claiming to be a Christian does something like this, virtually all the Christian community comes out very strongly against it. Something that Muslim organizations have done half heartedly at best when addressing terrorism from Islamist groups.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Something that Muslim organizations have done half heartedly at best when addressing terrorism from Islamist groups.

Considering 99% of Islamic terrorism, whilst using religion as a base, is actually politically motivated, perhaps you can see why?

Some of the grievences that the Muslim world have against the West are actually quite understandable.

The ability to see someone's point of view, without necessarily agreeing with their tactics, is a valuable one.

You don't honestly believe that the US/West is entirely blameless in all this friction, do you?

Do you really think that Muslims just woke up one day and thought

"Let's start a fight for no reason..I know what will be fun, let's attack America/West, they haven't done ANYTHING to piss us off, but we need to bomb somebody...."

stumason, exactly. Americans needs to do a little psychology analysis and have a course of logic.

Action - Reaction
Bad action - consequences

All the world anger against the US GOVERNMENT AND THOSE WHO SUPPORTS IT is the consequences of 62 years of crazy, cruel and greedy foreign policies. Study that, and you'll understand why they hate you're government and some brainwashed extremists hate everyone who's not thinking like them. (yes extremists muslims hate moderate muslims)

Originally posted by stumason
Some of the grievences that the Muslim world have against the West are actually quite understandable.

I don't see that in a practical sense. The adoption of petroleum as an industrial product was developed entirely in the west. Without these inovation, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran would have no valuable assets to sell to help their economy. What really has the West done to the Muslims who sit upon great oil reserves? We've paid them a gazillion dollars over the year for their energy resourcesk yet most of it has been squandered by giving the proceeds to high ranking officials, either in a Kingdom or a Military Dicatorship.

The UAE and other smaller countries like Bahrain have seemed to leverage their new found oili wealth into fast new projects to deveoop their countries and attract non-oil revenue to their cities. (a good move)

In contrast, countries under absolute authoritarian control have tended to squander any petrodollars received into lavish lifestyles for themselves and their male heirs.

In closing I'd jjust say that the Middle Eastern oil-rich governments have received plenty of funds to reimburse their nations for oil exploration by foreign countries -- but unfortunately mot of that money was distributed to political cronies, lucrative high cost contracts with political allies, and downright theft.

I see no reason for the U.S. to step into this multilateral fray to impose a free mariket plan when virtually every faction is dead set against any agreement for fear of financial and political reprecussions.

See, whilst to us laymen we might seem like benign purchasers or oil and that's it, in truth, the West has been interferring in the internal affairs of those despotic countries, shoring up regimes and generally making sure that whilst we're happy to buy their oil, we don't care much how and as long as it is at a good price.

Reverse the situation (kind of hard to imagine, I know) and think of your country being uber-rich in Oil, but has a despotic regime in charge. This regime squanders the wealth and it seems that the rich countries who buy the Oil prop up this regime, sell them weapons and generally interfere in your own countries affairs.

I doubt you would be too happy, either with your Government or those perceived to be supporting it.

***Disclaimer (as I know some have difficulty with a certain level of thinking) I DO NOT support terrorist/terrorism in any form. I just understand where a certain level of the animosity comes from*******

EDIT to add: Your own Government (my God, I'm actually with Bush on this one) supports (at least tacitly and in public) this very notion. Poverty and bad governance in the ME breed's terrorism. If they all lived at the same level of wealth and quality of life as us, the breeding grounds and reasons for the terrorism would evaporate.

[edit on 21/2/07 by stumason]

You are focusing way too much on religion, doing that only stimulates holier-than-thou contests of #religious tolerance# (tm) where it is believed that a christian church or hindu/buddhist temple on Islamic soil somehow offsets violent acts by uncontrollable splinter groups of Islamic culture.

i don't care about apoloists' ususual nonsense, who immendiately see ulterior motives when someone posts a simple news story where yet another ME thug commited a violent crime.

let's see

www.abovepolitics.com...

www.abovepolitics.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

isolated cases? IF these acts were commited by everyday people in retailiation, these would not be considered isolated acts, period.

say what you want, governments and interest groups coddling domestic terorists (overused but appropriate) are just as bad if not worse than the perps themselves!


None of these consideration have much to do with a murder in Pakistan, though, it's their business if they want to live in the stone age, the trouble is that this crime is prototypical of this society and its members across the globe.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Long Lance]

Ok the Koran says nothing about wearing a veil but a woman must cover up. But in the UK there are on going disputes about Muslim woman being covered up in schools. Yet when schools say no to veils, the school is only formal uniform the Muslim parents take the school to court or the school must defend it policies. There is no doubt that there is a fuss about the most minor things in life. It seems Muslims don’t want to fit into any other society and does not want to accept other cultures as they are seen irrelevant. Islamic people cannot separate the Islamic laws with the religion it’s not a religion but a political movement, the world can see by Muslim separatist behaviour worldwide. It’s demands to change the fabric of society they decide to move to, in other places make war if they don’t get independence from another system. The more a Muslim population grows the more people can add voice to making a political agenda hidden behind the religion.

Be it crosses in schools removed be it the need for prayer rooms, cab drives refusing to take drunk people, Muslim doctors refusing certain people to treat the sins that drove their illness. You think its racist or Islamophobe when you question Islam? There is the other side of Islam as Islamic countries by the laws they give show how tolerant they really are. The intolerance to anything but Islam the dhimmutude towards non Muslim people in the middle east along with the attitude that nothing Islamic is worth preserving. Other minorities are forced out of Islamic countries but growing population allows Muslims with ease without the same mirror attitude they have of minorities in their countries.

Islam does not show tolerance as we know it, if that was so why are there countless court cases in Europe and America where Muslims don’t do, can not do, or don’t want to do and they must make a court cases out of it. These people are not even terrorist and the behaviour can be found in the influence of how Muhammad behaved towards the people who did not fit into his ideology, which results in heavy handedness or death.

Yes you can quote from the Bible certain Old Testament quotes but that is a historical account that attributed to convents until man caught up with God’s promises. You have a distinction that what was then is history and what is for now is another era. They are based on different eras for that time and only certain rules apply for certain tribes in a ritualistic sense. Today Christianity has some problems be it abortion clinics and gay agendas but in Islam that is already covered by it’s laws towards these things with zero tolerance severe laws and attitudes. This is why Islam seems so 700AD compared to now.


The Religion demands of change in the host nations people populate to and continuing with questions of how Christian democracy must be challenged mostly by Muslims is happening everyday, not even Hindus or Buddhists demand this much privilege. This only comes from what the religion demands, which is for total control and Muhammad’s attitude towards non-believers is traced by the behaviours Muslims portray to non believers or nations as they are just second class even without saying it that is the case. The difference is that everything can be traced back to Islam as a way to defend one’s actions and Muhhamad has done enough barbarity towards non-believers that people can choose many of his killing acts to be inspired by to copy and justify. This separation of the infidels is just as Islamophobic or Dhimmi-phobic or infidel-phobic found in this religion that comes with it. Remember Islam drives out anything that is not Islamic, be it history, other religions, denying of the past and minority groups that live in Islamic countries as well as any information about what other cultures are about. Holy Islamic places are for Muslims only, you try going to Mecca or Temple Mount.
The only reason Islam stands is because of fear and covering up of life and expression outside of Islam those questions it. You know what happens when someone leaves Islam or have other views in the Middle East or the honour killings involved. You think the West is backwards in not understating Islam but so more evidently do the laws of Islam make understanding of freedoms intolerant to it and naive in its actions towards anything non-Islamic. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist unless Muslims separate Islamic law with faith and that is not really Islam in its purist form, even Muslims admit that.

Quoting just some of what the muslim appeasers and apologists are about to post on this thread:

"Why is the fact that he (the shooter) was a muslim important?"

"If it had been a Baptist shooting a politician, you wouldn't say that ..."

"But not every muslim shoots pakistani government officials ..."

"This is just Fox's journalistic propaganda trying to make muslims look bad ..."

"He (the shooter) could be Jewish, or Christian. And yes, he could be Buddhist too ..."

ad nauseum ...

Did I pretty much cover all the excuses?

While I do agree with most of what you say centurion,
here I must interject. This thread is not about what
religion a murderer is involved with. This thread is about
Murder, Killing, Ending someone elses life! and for what?



My girlfriend is from Pakistan. She lived there until she
was 19 when she came to America for our high school
education. She is small and easily blended in despite her
age. Her parents now want to in her own words "sell" her
off because she is not yet married. Her father is only in the
U.S. 6 months a year because he want's to achieve his
pension with his Pakistani company, and she recently
asked me if it was legal for a woman over 25 to live in the
same house as her father (she is now 26 and her father is
coming back for summer). I would happily marry her as
we have been together for about four and a half years!
It is not allowed because 1. I am a christian. 2. I am white
If she chose to marry me anyway she would be disowned
by her family, and would face very real danger of
retaliation. I love her and will do whatever to be with her! so this thread has struck a chord with me


A woman was killed...

However you want to lable this person is meaningless

Fact
a person killed another person for no other reason than
the victim was not wearing a veil..

Something so insignificant

It is things like this that make me ashamed of the human
race, and things like this that make me afraid of the
human race!


Peace among humans will show the aliens that we are
ready to advance our knowledge.


Deny Ignorance,

M

Once again a member of the religion of peace murders someone because he doens't like the way they dress.

How sad.

Quoting DJMessiah

Would you like me to provide you quotes from the Bible that allow stoning of women for not covering their head, because it's considered the same as adultery?

how 'bout our own bible telling us this...

Quoting the king James bible Leviticus 11:7

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Christians are not allowed to eat pork


Quoting the king James bible Leviticus 11:26

26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

Not even allowed to touch the carcase

hmmmm

makes you wonder about the 144,000 doesn't it?




[edit on 2/21/2007 by AlienChaser]

3 words

religion


+


politics


=


CONTROL


'nuff said

Originally posted by AlienChaser


how 'bout our own bible telling us this...

Quoting the king James bible Leviticus 11:7

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Christians are not allowed to eat pork


Quoting the king James bible Leviticus 11:26

26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

Not even allowed to touch the carcase

[edit on 2/21/2007 by AlienChaser]

Ugh, once again a pseudo-bible thumper. Why dont you read it before you try to preach it to me?

Matthew 15:11 explains why Christians are permitted to eat pork and anything else:

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Here is an explanation of this parable:

Then Peter answered and said to Him, "Explain this parable to us." So Jesus said, "Are you also still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

a. Explain this parable to us: In Matthew 15:12-14 Jesus didn’t really speak in a parable. Yet because the disciples did not understand Him, they asked for an explanation, much like they did with the parables.

b. Those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man: Jesus amplifies the point first made in Matthew 15:11. We are defiled from the inside out rather than from the outside in, and this is particularly true of ceremonial things like foods.

c. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man: Unfortunately, the emphasis of the religious leader’s in Jesus’ day - and often our own - is purely on these external things, not the internal things that make for true righteousness.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Why is the killing of a woman being paraded as the fault of Islam?
Thats absolutely retarded!!

Its almost racist..

Islam is a religion, not a race so by definition it is not racist.

His Muslim cultural beliefs obviously had something to do with this crime, as virtually all members of most other religions would not kill a woman because she was involved in politics or didn't wear a veil. The only religion on Earth that shows a pattern of similar incidents among its followers is Islam.

That's the hard truth.

To deny it would be embracing ignorance.

This is the hard truth:

You judge many on the twisted ideologies of some.
It gets a racist angle as religion itself has racial origins.

Here's Something that happened not too far from the area in question.
And this was in a city that is plagued by such 'militant threats'...

The terrorism in Islam has nothing to do with the religion, it has everything to do with the socio-economic-cultural background that breed these individuals.

Proper conditioning and motivation to the indigenous population results in the population itself rejecting these 'martyrs'. Once that happens, terrorism is gone..

It doesn't have much to do with Islam..

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Why is the killing of a woman being paraded as the fault of Islam?
Thats absolutely retarded!!

Its almost racist..

Well that's what happens when racists or don't even know they are racists hijack a thread. That's what happen.

Hello? muslims are part of a religion, not part of a race. If someone was against the entire muslim religion, they would be, what, a "religionist"? But they most certainly could not be called a racist.

Let's try to keep this straight from now on, OK?

no not religionists its called DISCRIMINATION, and there is a good reason why discrimination has a negative connotation. There is also a reason why its illegal to discriminate when its comes to things like jobs and such.

Wow, no offense to our Islamic members on the board, but I would hate to be in the hijab of any female muslims. Whew... talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you wear a headscarf, then non-muslims fire you from your job or assume you're a security threat. If you don't wear a headscarf, you get murdered by the muslim men.

Is there any advantage at all to being a muslim woman? Is there any sort of hope for equality, or female rights within the religion, or is this pretty much "as good as it gets"? How very depressing. Someone tell me I've got the wrong impression, please.