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One in six Europeans living below poverty threshold: study

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posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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www.breitbart.com...


One in six Europeans is living below national poverty thresholds, with children particularly vulnerable, according to the results of an official study.
The European Commission's annual report on "social protection and social inclusion" also found 10 percent of people living in households without anybody working as well as wide discrepancies between life expectancies between EU member states.


Looks like socialism works really well.

And this is the system some Americans actually want here.....mainly the democrats & libs......




posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:30 AM
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At the moment none of the systems work properly. Capitalism doesn't, neither does socialism. Don't go pointing the finger at one, while ignoring the other.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Let us not forget the recent inclusion of a few poorer Eastern European states bringing the figures down a bit. I also didn't know there were "socialist" states in the EU, perhaps someone could point them out to me



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:40 AM
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I think you are confusing Socialism a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control - and the word Social, which refers only to society as "a system of common life", but in another sense it contrasts specifically with "individual" and individualist theories of society.

There is no more Socialism in Europe my Friend.

And I have lived in a Socialist State once and I can tell you, that living was pretty easier, and not so based on individual but rather on broad social values - since everybody mainly worked for the better of their Country, not for THEMSELVES - which is pretty egoistic.

Nevermind that - want to see how Capitalism and Poverty work?


Income Stable, Poverty Up, Numbers of Americans With and Without Health Insurance Rise

Real median household income remained unchanged between 2002 and 2003 at $43,318, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau.

At the same time, the nation’s official poverty rate rose from 12.1 percent in 2002 to 12.5 percent in 2003.

The number of people with health insurance increased by 1.0 million to 243.3 million between 2002 and 2003, and the number without such coverage rose by 1.4 million to 45.0 million.

The percentage of the nation’s population without coverage grew from 15.2 percent in 2002 to 15.6 percent in 2003.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Britguy - France is a socialist country....has been.

As far as the national 'take-home' $43,000 is not bad......by US standards that's middle class. There are many areas in the US where one can live comfortably and raise a family (multiple children) with that amount.

Yeah there may be 45 million people without personal health insurance but, conveniently, the 'politicians' fail to mention that a majority of those 45 million are on Medicare/caid, CHP, FHP or similar plans.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:56 AM
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Looks like socialism works really well.

And this is the system some Americans actually want here.....mainly the democrats & libs......


Ahem....

Firstly, name ONE Socialist country. All countries in the EU are democratic, whilst they may well have social reforms and/or a social-type party at the helm, they are not Socialist countries.

Also, as mentioned, in the past 3 years, we have taken in around 12 (maybe more) or so ex-Soviet bloc countries that, to be honest, are filthy poor. Give them time, hey? This report is merely to highlight that work needs doing in the new members.

Another point, whereas 15% of Europeans may well be below the poverty line (this is easily explainable by the above), consider the following:

15% of Americans do not have any kind of health insurance, whereas in Europe, you can get free Healthcare in any country. 11.2% of American Children have no cover whatsoever.

12.6% of Americans live below the poverty line, some 37 Million people.

Source - US Census

So, before you start pissing all over a continent you quite clearly know little about, how about getting your own house in order?

Thankyou.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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What, no condescending American Euro-bashing all night? Crikey...



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 01:38 AM
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Patience Stu, Patience.... I'm sure the comments will come


I'd rather have a system of free healthcare for all than a private system where if you can't pay, you don't get the care you probably need. In a "civilised" society that seems to suck big time.
I think the understanding of a Socialist state is misunderstood by some to mean a Communist state, which is of course way off the mark. Would Americans, given the choice, opt for a free healthcare system or still prefer to pay through the nose for insurance?
I guess the clout of the big medicare, insurance and pharma companies has a lot to do with keeping the private system in place, at the expense of the patient.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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I think there was a thread in PTS about American Health care going National and they didn't seem to keen. Most liken it to a slippery slope towards some sort of Soviet State, it would seem.

McCarthyism is alive and well



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 02:03 AM
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Come on, Socialism has its own problems, but then, so does Capitalism... and like Stumason said, there are no Socialist countries in the EU.

And Fascism has plenty of problems as well.


Sounds to me that the OP is just a conservative that wants to throw insults at liberals and democrats in America, as usual.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
I'd rather have a system of free healthcare for all than a private system where if you can't pay, you don't get the care you probably need. In a "civilised" society that seems to suck big time.
I think the understanding of a Socialist state is misunderstood by some to mean a Communist state, which is of course way off the mark. Would Americans, given the choice, opt for a free healthcare system or still prefer to pay through the nose for insurance?

There is a helluva lot more to socialism than free health care, which isn't actually free after all, since you pay for it through much higher taxes, etc.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
There is a helluva lot more to socialism than free health care, which isn't actually free after all, since you pay for it through much higher taxes, etc.


I would argue our taxation levels are not significantly higher than the US. I pay around 25% of my salary in Tax, all things deducted. But I also get tax credits back later in the month, so the figure is lower. For that, I get Healthcare, Education and some sycophantic politicians to kiss Bush's arse


I also earn more in Europe than I could in the US. Your average $36K a year is a measely £15k. The average wage in the UK is above that, at around £20K/annum. In your Mickey Mouse Dollar's, I earn around $50K, yet relatively speaking, things cost the same in EU as they do in the States.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
There is a helluva lot more to socialism than free health care, which isn't actually free after all, since you pay for it through much higher taxes, etc.

So you actually Lived in a Socialist country once?

Not just Health, but also Education for completly FREE for everybody.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I think you are confusing Socialism a broad array of doctrines or political movements that envisage a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to social control - and the word Social, which refers only to society as "a system of common life", but in another sense it contrasts specifically with "individual" and individualist theories of society.


i think you said it best. they seem to be bringing in a system of socialism, but hiding it behind capitalism, and using as much propaganda as they can to hide these terms.

what ever word you put to it, the governments are creating a system where government is key to everything in your life, but you may still believe your free, but you are rally not. i am sure there is some term out there that describes the system they are building.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
i think you said it best. they seem to be bringing in a system of socialism, but hiding it behind capitalism, and using as much propaganda as they can to hide these terms.

what ever word you put to it, the governments are creating a system where government is key to everything in your life, but you may still believe your free, but you are rally not. i am sure there is some term out there that describes the system they are building.


Now, there's a paranoid outlook if ever I heard one.

before I go further, can I ask where you are from so i can understand your perspective.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by jsobecky
There is a helluva lot more to socialism than free health care, which isn't actually free after all, since you pay for it through much higher taxes, etc.

So you actually Lived in a Socialist country once?

Not just Health, but also Education for completly FREE for everybody.


Pure Utopia, eh, Souljah? At what cost?

Somebody has to pay for it, in one form or another.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
I would argue our taxation levels are not significantly higher than the US. I pay around 25% of my salary in Tax, all things deducted. But I also get tax credits back later in the month, so the figure is lower. For that, I get Healthcare, Education and some sycophantic politicians to kiss Bush's arse


I doubt it. You must pay NIC (about 11% on income up to £630 per week), Income Tax (about 22% equivalent to about £583 per week, or £2,526 per month), and other ridiculous taxes which are hidden as "fees", such as the TV license.

Further proof that your gov't is hungrier than ours:


Even under the stiff new tax law, U.S. Federal income taxes are still far behind Britain's. For a single person, the U.S. tax starts next year at 10% on net income over $750, runs to a peak of 81% on net income over $5,000,000. The British tax begins at 6% on earned income over $480, rises sharply, virtually confiscates all income over $20,000 (97½%). A U.S. married couple without dependents, earning $4,000 a year, will pay only $249 Federal income tax. In Britain they would pay $1,404.

www.time.com...

Emphasis added.



I also earn more in Europe than I could in the US. Your average $36K a year is a measely £15k. The average wage in the UK is above that, at around £20K/annum. In your Mickey Mouse Dollar's, I earn around $50K, yet relatively speaking, things cost the same in EU as they do in the States.

Your exchange rates are inflated. The current rate is 1.95 in USD.

I would also bet that your dollar (or pound) could buy a lot more in the US as opposed to GB.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
I think there was a thread in PTS about American Health care going National and they didn't seem to keen. Most liken it to a slippery slope towards some sort of Soviet State, it would seem.

McCarthyism is alive and well


When are you euros going to get the picture? when 5 in 6 euros are in poverty? Socialism or any derivations simply doesnt work. It never will and it will continue to be a failing system.

Also, did you really just say that your taxes are not higher than US taxes? you pay 1/4 of everything you make to the government!!!!!

I think the income tax level here in the US is what, 16%? less depending on what tax bracket you fall into.





[edit on 21-2-2007 by XphilesPhan]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 08:47 AM
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According to President Blair and his loonies, I live in abject poverty (my annual income is around a quarter of the average UK income)

I love it


Of course, back in the good old days, poverty meant you couldn't actually afford new clothes or food or stuff. Now it means you can't afford 2 new cars a year and a holiday villa in the caribbean .....

Edit: as worth noting that as life expectancy rises, so will the number of people living in households where no-one works. If 10% of the population is retired ....



[edit on 21-2-2007 by Essan]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 09:52 AM
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[B]JSOBECKY

Your a bit off with the taxation figures there! If only 22% of my income WAS £2,526 per month!!


Tax is staggered. We get a basic tax free allowance of around £5500/year. Above that you pay as follows:

Taxable Bands Allowances 2005-06 (£) 2006-07 (£)

Starting rate 10% 0 - 2,090 0 - 2,150

Basic rate 22% 2,091 - 32,400 2,151 - 33,300

Higher rate 40% over 32,400 over 33,300

Source

Those figures are NOT inclusive of the allowance. So for example, myself who earn's around £28000, I would pay no tax on £5,035, then 10% on the next 2090 and 22% on the remaining £21K, bring total tax paid to £4829 (or thereabouts)..

I have to admit I have no idea how to work out NIC, but I pay around £200/month

As for "stealth" taxes, dont get hit by much myself. Fags and booze I pay duty on them, but they're still not expensive. Dont drive, but tax on fuel is high. I am sure you Yanks have your own hidden taxes too. Do you not pay income tax on a federal level and also pay tax on the state level? Then there are sales taxes etc etc..

That source you cited was way off the mark. 6% tax on income over $480? It's utter BS in fact.


A U.S. married couple without dependents, earning $4,000 a year, will pay only $249 Federal income tax. In Britain they would pay $1,404.


No.... A couple earning $4000/year (how do they survive??) would pay no income tax in the UK. See above...



Your exchange rates are inflated. The current rate is 1.95 in USD.


Yes, my first sum I did wrong, $36K is around £18500. The rest was fine though.



I would also bet that your dollar (or pound) could buy a lot more in the US as opposed to GB.


My pounds would go very far in the states, but that is the benefit of the exchange rate. If I earnt dollars and had to spend them in the US, I would not have any benefit. PS3 for example is more or less the same price in the US as in the UK.



When are you euros going to get the picture? when 5 in 6 euros are in poverty? Socialism or any derivations simply doesnt work. It never will and it will continue to be a failing system.


Ok then....

Seems to be ticking over quite nicely here in the UK. In fact, service has just got better and better for no real increase in tax. The French and German models need overhauling mind you, but they're not "failing".



Also, did you really just say that your taxes are not higher than US taxes? you pay 1/4 of everything you make to the government!!!!!


When all is said and done, I think you'll find that you probably do too. Take into account sales taxes and any other hidden charges. I do not know your tax system well, mind you, but it seems to me you pay slightly less tax for a severly decreased service.

What exactly do you pay your taxes for? Defence? That's about the only thing your Government spends money on these days
.. Has there been any massive infrastructure spending? Healthcare? Pensions? Unemployment benefits? What do you get for your money? I am genuinely interested, not being condescending. You slam our model, but we get something in return. What is it your Government does for you?



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