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Why Americans are Skeptical of Their Role in Global Warming

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posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by kleverone
Because we are supposed to be the leaders of the free world, and Leaders should lead by example!


Sure.

But what YOU said was this .... Why are Americans skeptical of their role in global warming. The ANSWER is .. because they have not been proven to even have a role in it. Humans have not been proven to have a role in global warming. It has not been proven to be anything more than a natural cycle. (so far). THAT is why. THAT is the answer to your question.


It comes down to why do you not care?


Caring is a separate issue than 'accepting our role'. Do you wish to change the topic to discuss who cares and who doesn't care about global warming?



You might want to look a little closer, that was the title of the article, not any statement I professed as truth. Nowhere did I say we were responsible, I simply posted an article that asked the question "why are we so skeptical on our contributions" Do you honestly believe that by chopping down the rainforest and releasing mass amounts of Co2 into the air is not effecting temps? If this is something you need a papertrail for then I certainly hope you find it before its too late. There is just as much evidence for as there is against so your argument is a two way street. And even though it may not be proven, the signs are there. Let me put it this way. If global warming is true and food and water become scarce, you know that feeling you get when your thirsty? Imagine that after 3 days, now your not dead...and I can prove it. Now the signs may be pointing to you dying soon but there is certainly no proof that you are dead, hell I can prove your alive! But the signs of you being close to dead are abundently clear to you! One problem...you can't prove that to me. So why should I care? Remember that, if food and water become scarce, it may help comfort you, if (God Forbid) that situation ever arises. Feel me?




posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by grover
you guys are a joke. The majority of you ... are good examples of why the rest of the world joins the words dumb and American together.


.... and we don't care about your anti-American bigotry or what you think about us. Oh the jealousy ....





The joke is on you flyer... I was born and raised in the south, Virginia specifically, have served my country honorably in the military and at 51, I have earned the right to say when I think my country has its head stuck up its ass.... and still love it, regardless. Something you right wing idiots have yet to figure out.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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Grover is on the job! Defeating ignorance, one member at a time!

way to go Grover!





Edit- sorry grover, I left an R out of your name!

[edit on 21-2-2007 by kleverone]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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God will fix it.

-American



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Nemithesis
God will fix it.

-American


I'm gonna leave that one alone, for now



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky

Originally posted by grover
you guys are a joke. To call this a serious discussion is absurd. The majority of you, especially perplexed, are good examples of why the rest of the world joins the words dumb and American together. Knee jerk jingoism may be just the thing at some right wing political rally but it doesn't do anything for constructive and intelligent dialog.


Name calling and personal attacks....
Typically left wing.



Whining and complaining that they are being attacked when someone points out that either the emperor has no clothes or that they have no brain....
Typically right wing.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by grover
or that they have no brain...

[edit on 21-2-2007 by grover]


More personal attacks.

Up yours Grover!



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by kleverone
.............
Global warming is here and denying it will not make it go away.


Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the cause.

As always in articles like the above they don't tell you all the facts.

First of all anthropogenic CO2 accounts for 0.28% of trace gases/greenhouse gases, meanwhile water vapor accounts for 95% of greenhouse gases. Not to mention the fact that water vapor retains twice the amount of heat than CO2 does...



Not only that, but our oceans are the major source of CO2 on Earth. In fact our oceans hold 98.5% of the CO2 found on Earth...

CO2 is soluble with water, the cooler the water the more soluble CO2 is. Cold water is denser than warm water, which makes CO2 sink.

When there are underwater seismic/magmatic events warming the ocean floors, CO2 is released alongside with methane and other trace gases.

We have been experiencing more of both natural events in the past 10 years or so.

As a matter of fact, the term "Global Warming" is being misused, because there is "regional warming trends, and regional cooling trends". Meanwhile there are parts of the world where ice is receeding, in other parts the ice mass is increasing, an effect which is happening all over the globe.

If you would have noticed, meanwhile there are parts of the world where warmer temperatures have been broken, we have been experiencing the worse blizzards and winters on record too in many parts of the world.

In fact, here is a little graph of how warm it has been on Earth for the past 160,000 years.



We do need to be concious of our environment, and try to protect it as much as we can, but humans did not cause the Climate Change we are currently undergoing. It is a natural cycle.

If you want to curb pollution, then fight for the right cause, to curb pollution...but don't try to make people ashamed of something none of us has control over.

Some people say, we need the Kyoto protocol, but how sure are any of you that what the policymakers want with such a protocol is to "save the world", when in this same protocol they would allow countries such as China and India not only to continue their greenhouse gas emissions, but to increase them as much as they want?

It is a matter of fact that China will surpass the U.S. in CO2 emissions by 2009, and thats without mentioning that 7 out of the 10 most polluted cities in the world are in China, and China has the most contaminated rivers found anywhere... Yet policymakers want to save the world by allowing China among others to increase their pollution?....

The Kyoto protocol is nothing more than a policy to install a global tax, nothing more and nothing less.

The policymakers are not "out to save the world", they are "out after your pockets".

[edit on 21-2-2007 by Muaddib]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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No where do I even mention you bluesky, not once so I don't see how that is a personal attack at all.

BTW the fact that the earth started warming as it came out of the last ice age is no proof that global warming theory is wrong.

[edit on 21-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by kleverone
Grover is on the job! Defeating ignorance, one member at a time!

way to go Grover!





Edit- sorry grover, I left an R out of your name!

[edit on 21-2-2007 by kleverone]


Wow, how is it exactly resorting to nothing more than insults "defeating ignorance"?...

More so when all he does is insult everyone he disagrees with?...

That is not "defeating ignorance", that's embracing ignorance...



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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If you get hundreds of PhDs running and screaming to the US government about global warming, you think they shut them up by
a) killing them
b) ignoring them
c) helping them
or
d) giving them the money they are complaining they do not have



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by kleverone
Grover is on the job! Defeating ignorance, one member at a time!

way to go Grover!





Edit- sorry grover, I left an R out of your name!

[edit on 21-2-2007 by kleverone]


Wow, how is it exactly resorting to nothing more than insults "defeating ignorance"?...

More so when all he does is insult everyone he disagrees with?...

That is not "defeating ignorance", that's embracing ignorance...


That is the pot calling the kettle black.



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

*snip*



I'm glad to hear that when you present evidence it becomes fact but when anyone else presents it, it becomes heresay. Your evidence is no more concrete than anyone elses. Also if we are in a cooling trend as you state, then why was 2006 the hottest year in U.S. history and the 6th hottest globally? A trend within a trend?


Mod edit: Removed unecessary quote of this entire post

[edit on 2007/2/25 by Hellmutt]



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by kleverone
Grover is on the job! Defeating ignorance, one member at a time!

way to go Grover!





Edit- sorry grover, I left an R out of your name!

[edit on 21-2-2007 by kleverone]


Wow, how is it exactly resorting to nothing more than insults "defeating ignorance"?...

More so when all he does is insult everyone he disagrees with?...

That is not "defeating ignorance", that's embracing ignorance...


I agree that Grover tends to get a little excited, I don't encourage namecalling but I can look past it if its derived from passionate frustration. Besides, I think the mods can handle it should it spiral out of control. My question is this, why not take up this issue with Grover or the mods? I assure you, if all grover did was make fun of people, he would not be here still. And not with all those points


So heres to you Grover, whoever you are



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by kleverone
I'm glad to hear that when you present evidence it becomes fact but when anyone else presents it, it becomes heresay. Your evidence is no more concrete than anyone elses. Also if we are in a cooling trend as you state, then why was 2006 the hottest year in U.S. history and the 6th hottest globally? A trend within a trend?


Now this is the problem. Nobodys facts are more concrete than anyone elses and theres always a number or stat that can support or contradict either position.

The biggest, most collosal, most important and world changing matter is that one side wants to use it to levy taxes and institute legislation. The other side doesnt want to do that.

When the UN starts pushing for global taxation and legislation I dont have to think twice before I decide which side to support. As long as theres even a sliver of doubt Ill dig in and fight against globalism all the way.

Im just not sure why so many others are fighting for taxation and legislation. Can so many people really want more government to rule their lives? Or is it that they just want a certain party or political ideology to win by any means necessary? What ever the reason for it is you can come with your blue helmets and take my property over my dead body.



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the cause.


So, if you chop down a forest and as a consequent there is no evapotranspiration and thus no cloud formation and no rainfall, the consequential climate change is not your fault?

If you change the albedo of a planet and thus the amount of solar radiation it reflect, it's not your fault?

If you produce particulates into the atmosphere though industrial processes and these aid or inhibit the creation of rain drops, it's not your fault?

If the summer skies turn hazy due to persistent contrails, it's not your fault?

How can you possibly say that humans are not causing climate change? They've probably been doing so to some extent for thousands of years.

It's not all about carbon emission you know


btw Americans who don't care about the Amazon may want to read this:-

news.mongabay.com...



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Muaddib
Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the cause.


How can you possibly say that humans are not causing climate change? They've probably been doing so to some extent for thousands of years.

It's not all about carbon emission you know




How about this Essan?

Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the only cause.

Would you agree with that position?



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by Muaddib
Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the cause.


How can you possibly say that humans are not causing climate change? They've probably been doing so to some extent for thousands of years.

It's not all about carbon emission you know




How about this Essan?

Just because there is a Climate Change in the making, doesn't mean we are the only cause.

Would you agree with that position?



I don't think anyone ever made the claim otherwise? The original article stated "Why Are Americans Skeptical about their role" Not why don't we accept the fact that we are soley responsible. If we are even a .ooo1% responsible then we should do everything we can to accept responsiblity for our part and do what we can to change. But to do that we must first accept OUR ROLE, it was never a question of sole responsiblity. That topic was just an unfortunate biproduct of the original post.

Let me also take this time to thank EVERYONE who has posted on this thread, great disscussions!



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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ok, this is going to be my last post in this thread, i don't see why i should reward partisan scare mongering and defeating ignorance - got some issues with dissenters lately?



www.timesonline.co.uk...


Enthusiasm for the global-warming scare also ensures that heatwaves make headlines, while contrary symptoms, such as this winter’s billion-dollar loss of Californian crops to unusual frost, are relegated to the business pages. The early arrival of migrant birds in spring provides colourful evidence for a recent warming of the northern lands. But did anyone tell you that in east Antarctica the Adélie penguins and Cape petrels are turning up at their spring nesting sites around nine days later than they did 50 years ago? While sea-ice has diminished in the Arctic since 1978, it has grown by 8% in the Southern Ocean.



refute or eat it, CO2 has been done to death already, i don't understand your stubborn insistence on it, and if you can't do better than say 'the scientific world embraces....#' i'll have to ask you what to make of couriously underreported yet extremely important facts, like soil depletion.. not so shiny after all are we?

or may i point out that people advoccating such things as hygiene had their lives ruined om purpose. guess by whom? the mainstream of course. things must have changed, though because you said it.


your unwaivering belief is getting annoying, to be frank and continuously re-opening GW threads because the old ones are no longer fresh should strike even you as peculiar.

f-ex. www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 22-2-2007 by Long Lance]



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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The question I ask myself all the time is "What is it the GW alarmists, and Kyoto advocates think we skeptics are trying to do, or have to gain, by questioning the GW theories and predictions?"

Are we all assumed to be Exxon agents?
Is it thought we actively want to destroy the environment?
That we are all selfish, ignorant, shortsighted fools who worry only about how we're affected today?

You must admit, even the dullest knife in the drawer understands GW and the consequences of what the alarmists threaten will happen.
To simply deny it out of ignorance, or to be apathetic is highly unlikely except in the most severely intellectually challenged individuals. I've seen none of these individuals on ATS.

Could it be we skeptics see the issue this way?....

A movement has been growing for years to convince everyone that we're killing the planet.

The only semi-meaningful proposal put forth thus far to address GW is Kyoto which is nothing more than carbon taxation mechanism that will economically penalize developed nations, and reward developing nations and also will not succeed in reducing GHG emissions by one pound.

I speak only for myself, but I'm suspicious of any allegedly dire threat that is to be addressed primarily by a system of penal taxation.



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