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Loose Change a pile of Hooey

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posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 09:07 AM
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Loose Change a pile of Hooey


Source Link: alternet.org

Short Changing 9/11: Popular Documentary Takes Us Nowhere
By George Monbiot, AlterNet. Posted February 17, 2007.

There is a virus sweeping the world. It infects opponents of the Bush government, sucks their brains out through their eyes and turns them into gibbering idiots. The disease is called Loose Change. It is a film made by three young men which airs most of the standard conspiracy theories about the attacks of September 11 2001. Unlike the other 9/11 conspiracy films, Loose Change is sharp and swift, with a thumping soundtrack, slick graphics and a calm and authoritative voiceover. Its makers claim that it has now been watched by 100 million people.

The Pentagon, the film maintains, was not hit by a commercial airliner. There was "no discernable trace" of a plane found in the wreckage, and the entrance and exit holes in the building were far too small. It was hit by a Cruise missile. The twin towers were brought down by means of "a carefully planned controlled demolition." You can see the small puffs of smoke caused by explosives just below the cascading sections. All other hypotheses are implausible: the fire was not hot enough to melt steel and the towers fell too quickly. Building 7 was destroyed by the same means a few hours later.

Flight 93 did not crash, but was redirected to Cleveland Airport, where the passengers were taken into a NASA building and never seen again. Their voices had been cloned by the Los Alamos laboratories and used to make fake calls to their relatives. The footage of Osama Bin Laden, claiming responsibility for the attacks, was faked. The US government carried out this great crime for four reasons: to help Larry Silverstein, who leased the towers, to collect his insurance money; to assist insider traders betting on falling airline stocks; to steal the gold in the basement; and to grant George Bush new executive powers, so that he could carry out his plans for world domination.
(visit the link for the full news article)

Related News Links:
www.counterpunch.org

The article goes on to say that to carry out a conspiracy like this one it would by necessity involve thousands of people which has always been my objection to such theories as well... the more people involved the more likely the story it would be leaked, or in today's culture... sold for a profit by somebody involved.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by grover]




posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Whilst I appreciate the argument's against...

Why is this news?



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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Whether loose change is a pile of crap or not, it still doesn't change the facts that something is VERY wrong here.

I don't agree with most of the theories that loose change proposes, but that does not mean that I agree with the official report.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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"You can see the small puffs of smoke caused by explosives just below the cascading sections. All other hypotheses are implausible: the fire was not hot enough to melt steel and the towers fell too quickly. Building 7 was destroyed by the same means a few hours later"

You CAN see the puffs of smoke clearly, and they did fall too quickly. And building 7 was destroyed by demolition. (how silverstein got his insurance when he is on tape saying 'pull it' i'll never know).

Why would many people need to know? Special ops teams would have no reason to go to the press, it was their job.
For example if you needed to plant bombs in the two buildings you wouldnt need to tell the whole security force, you would just set them at strategic positions with the excuse of a security breach or bomb alert, then you would just need a a couple of people to do plant the bombs. You could get away with only a handful of people knowing what was actually happening.
Considering the pay offs with the heroin from afganistan and the cash rolling in from iraq it seems there would be enough to go around.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:34 PM
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And those who wrote this article are a big pile of hooey... enough said.


And didn't investigated for real, like the BBC documentary.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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those little puffs of smoke look just like concrete being pulverized as a massive weight comes down on it too. As for why they fell.... the support for this building was on the outside and the planes made substancial holes in that support system throwing the whole weight on the remaining system.

I believe the bush team is guilty of many crimes worth impeachment and imprisionment but they are just too dumb to have pulled this one off. If anything they are guilty of looking the other way while it happened.... impeachable enough if you ask me.... certainly more so than a BJ.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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sorry... see below.
[edit on 20-2-2007 by grover]

[edit on 20-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:45 PM
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Whenever I am confronted with things like the 9/11 conspiracy theories I always find it wise to run them through Occam's razor. For those of you who are unfamiliar with it, this is from Wikipedia.




Occam's razor (also spelled Ockham's razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating, or "shaving off", those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (law of succinctness or parsimony):

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem,
which translates to:
entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity.

This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as a heuristic maxim that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity in scientific theories.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by grover
Whenever I am confronted with things like the 9/11 conspiracy theories I always find it wise to run them through Occam's razor. For those of you who are unfamiliar with it, this is from Wikipedia.


This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.



The thing about Occam's razor is the bolded phrase. All things are definately not equal when it comes to 9/11 theories, so Occam's razor doesn't apply well here.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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Sure it does... another way of reading that would be the more complicated a theory the less likely it is to be true.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Only if all things are equal. Things are not equal when it comes to the official story and CT's. In Conspiracy theories, we take the laws of physics as unbreakable. In the official story, laws of physics ARE breakable. There's a huge difference there.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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OK. Let's consdier Occam's Razor:

Theory #1:

A group of young Middle Eastern men with extreme religious training get phony documents, get into the USA and receive basic flight training. They are categorized by their instructors as average at best and one is declined the rental of a C172 because he is unable to fly it adequately. These men then simultaneously hijack 4 commercial airliners and are all able to do so without any of the flight crews ever being able to transmit a MAYDAY or even set their transponders to 7500 (air piracy). They then take control of these aircraft and fly two into the twin towers at high speed. A third is flown into the Pentagon and the fourth rolled onto its back and into the ground during an attempted retaking of the aircraft by passengers. WTC #1 falls into its footprint 85min after the impact and WTC #2 56min after impact. The only two structures of their type to collapse due to fir in history. WTC #7 also collapses later that day though not hit. The only three collapses of their type in history and all on the same day. The Pentagon flight hits the only portion of the building recently renovated and executes a complex flightpath to do so (rather than flying straight in). Although rehearsed many times each year, NORAD fails to dispatch interceptors. The best trained airforce in the world screws-up yet a bunch of sub-par flight students execute complex flight maneuvers the very first time they are ever to fly a commercial airliner. All this with no warning. The government declines to investigate the incidents and the evidence is all quickly shipped overseas for recycling. And oh, by the way, the air is OK to breath.

Theory #2:

A group of very powerful people execute a plan to legitimize wars in the ME that will net them billions of dollars profit (in energy, military spending and post-war reconstruction contracts) and very possibly oil as well as consolidating power and allowing them to work behind the curtains in secrecy and no oversight. The owner of the attacked buildings receives hundreds of millions profit in insurance claims for his cooperation in allowing his buildings to undergo a controlled demolition. The mayor of NY becomes a national hero and political icon for his cooperation.


So, using Occam's Razor, one has to go with Theory #2. Why? Because the events outlined in Theory #2 have precedence in history. The events in Theory #1 require several unprecedented and never observed things to happen in concert for it to work. As a result, #1 is the less likley, less plausible explanation.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:54 PM
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JTMA !

Wow...I decided to go with your easy number 2 plan!

I can't WAIT to see loose change the final cut.... Final Cut? Hmmm is that until History teachers in middle schools across the country have their children find all the inaccuracies like the past two pieces of garbage.

Remember... Dylan ADMITTED ON VIDEO that his video has inaccuracies, yet he STILL hands them out and sells them.... Why not edit them? OG THATS RIGHT....make ANOTHER movie and make MORE money. Becasue remember his video was DEDICATED to the lives lost on 911.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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And let's not forget that the majority of families of 9/11 believe that 9/11 was a inside job, and that they are the less likely people to believe in that kind of thing. And that a lot of former CIA/government agents say it's an inside job, that the owner of the WTC7 say pull it off, that it's written in PNAC, Operation Northwoods, the trillions missing from the pentagon, ect...

Yeah, nothing to see here.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
And let's not forget that the majority of families of 9/11 believe that 9/11 was a inside job, and that they are the less likely people to believe in that kind of thing. And that a lot of former CIA/government agents say it's an inside job, that the owner of the WTC7 say pull it off, that it's written in PNAC, Operation Northwoods, the trillions missing from the pentagon, ect...

Yeah, nothing to see here.


Majority of Families? Please list the statistics and your source.

A Lot of former CIA. Government Agents? Please define "a lot", list them, then provide a source

The Silverstein quote...botched once again... learn the REAL quote.

What is written in PNAC besides we "need another pearl harbor"

Operation Northwoods? *yawns* it was THROWN OUT!

Trillions missing.... Well...did you find it? The trillions missing didnt happen in the 8 months the idiot was in office.

Do some research my friend... Loose Change was a JOKE !



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 06:20 PM
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Majority of Families? Please list the statistics and your source.

I heard the interviews on radio of the leaders of the families groups, i'm paraphrasing them. Send them an email to Bill Doyle , the leader of the biggest group of family victims, and the majority of them believe it's an inside job.
9/11 widows
Famillies ask for another investigation



A Lot of former CIA. Government Agents? Please define "a lot", list them, then provide a source

Others of them
Ray McGovern
Bill Christison: National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 79.
David Shayler: Ex-MI5 agent.
Craig Bartmer: NYPD officer a former NYPD official who states he heard bombs tear down Building 7 as it collapsed.
William Rodruigez was a witness to underground explosions in the basement levels.
Robin Hordon: A former Boston Center air traffic controller.



Trillions missing.... Well...did you find it? The trillions missing didnt happen in the 8 months the idiot was in office.

Trillions missing from the pentagon. Source



The Silverstein quote...botched once again... learn the REAL quote.

You mean that: Silverstein himself



What is written in PNAC besides we "need another pearl harbor"

Well you have your premeditation right there. From PNAC

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor.




Operation Northwoods? *yawns* it was THROWN OUT!

And? Operation Northwood

Operation AJAX.
Operation SHAD.
The Reichtag.
Nero burning Rome.
USS liberty.
WMDs.
OKC bombings.
Ect...
The governments don't cares about the lives of their citizens, they are only power-grabbers.

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well

- An increase of 400% increase in put options on 9-6-01 and 9-7-01 on serveral airline stocks. An increase of 1100% Increase an in increase of put options on airline stocks on 9-10-01.

- Debris from the building was taken and illegally sold to china before anybody could really investigate.

- Larry Silverstein got High Insurance on WTC7 Including terrosm insurance.

- 6 Months Before 9/11 They passed laws saying No pilots can carry guns, when pilots were allowed to carry guns for 40 years.

- Thermite was found at the scene. BYU Professor Steve E. Jones Have tested Postive some substance for Thermite, It was later Proven to cut the Main Pillars in the World Trade Center. It was the yellow goowy substance Dripping From the towers as CNN, FOX, Etc reported on 9/11/01.

- Less then 15 Million Was spend Investigating 9-11 and more then 45 Million on Clintons Sex Life.

- Between Both Engines on Flight 77 Or a 757, Its combined weight is 10-12 Tons. It is made of Steel And Titnium. Its melting Point is around 2600F. The Fire didnt get anywhre near that tempurature at the Pentagon. Yet No Engines Were Found.

- Bush saw first plane

- 100.000 $ if you can prove that it wasn't an inside job

- Ashcroft flying on private plane because of threat

- Crash debris found 8 miles away , even if it's impossible.

- Bin Laden not responsable for 9/11.

- FBI: No evidence of Bin Laden responsability in 9/11

- Cuban and Venezuelan intel 9/11 inside job.

- "Then there is the passport. The security services claim that a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was extracted from the rubble of the World Trade Centre. This definitive identification might help them to track the rest of the network.

Well you get the point...


[edit on 20-2-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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Remember... Dylan ADMITTED ON VIDEO that his video has inaccuracies, yet he STILL hands them out and sells them....

Isn't it also true that Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, the Chair and Vice-Chair of the 9/11 Commission, also admitted they didn't ask enough tough questions during testimonial hearings; and that they were lied to by both the White House and the Pentagon? Yet they went ahead and published a 500+ page report, didn't they?



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
OK. Let's consdier Occam's Razor:

Theory #1:

A group of young Middle Eastern men with extreme religious training get phony documents, get into the USA and receive basic flight training. They are categorized by their instructors as average at best and one is declined the rental of a C172 because he is unable to fly it adequately. These men then simultaneously hijack 4 commercial airliners and are all able to do so without any of the flight crews ever being able to transmit a MAYDAY or even set their transponders to 7500 (air piracy). They then take control of these aircraft and fly two into the twin towers at high speed. A third is flown into the Pentagon and the fourth rolled onto its back and into the ground during an attempted retaking of the aircraft by passengers. WTC #1 falls into its footprint 85min after the impact and WTC #2 56min after impact. The only two structures of their type to collapse due to fir in history. WTC #7 also collapses later that day though not hit. The only three collapses of their type in history and all on the same day. The Pentagon flight hits the only portion of the building recently renovated and executes a complex flightpath to do so (rather than flying straight in). Although rehearsed many times each year, NORAD fails to dispatch interceptors. The best trained airforce in the world screws-up yet a bunch of sub-par flight students execute complex flight maneuvers the very first time they are ever to fly a commercial airliner. All this with no warning. The government declines to investigate the incidents and the evidence is all quickly shipped overseas for recycling. And oh, by the way, the air is OK to breath.

Theory #2:

A group of very powerful people execute a plan to legitimize wars in the ME that will net them billions of dollars profit (in energy, military spending and post-war reconstruction contracts) and very possibly oil as well as consolidating power and allowing them to work behind the curtains in secrecy and no oversight. The owner of the attacked buildings receives hundreds of millions profit in insurance claims for his cooperation in allowing his buildings to undergo a controlled demolition. The mayor of NY becomes a national hero and political icon for his cooperation.


So, using Occam's Razor, one has to go with Theory #2. Why? Because the events outlined in Theory #2 have precedence in history. The events in Theory #1 require several unprecedented and never observed things to happen in concert for it to work. As a result, #1 is the less likley, less plausible explanation.



Nice... BUT the one thing that shoots #2 down is that it would have taken thousands to have pulled it off and with the confessional society that we have it would have come out by now.... someone would have leaked their involvement in it for either political revenge of some type or money.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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OK.
Instead of just rattling off "thousands of people", why dont you itemise the number of personnel you think would be implicated in each area of the job.
I am in no psition to speculate, perhaps you are.



posted on Feb, 21 2007 @ 07:32 AM
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Nice... BUT the one thing that shoots #2 down is that it would have taken thousands to have pulled it off and with the confessional society that we have it would have come out by now.... someone would have leaked their involvement in it for either political revenge of some type or money.

Hmmm no. From various experts that studied the case, it would have taken 100 people maximum. And probably a lot of them didn't knew they were part of the whole thing or had this way of thinking that they have to do dirty things so that bad people can't do us dirty things, or specials ops... specials ops won't talk about their operations, no matter what it is.



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