Reply, but don't use the Bible. Eh??

I've noticed a few threads recently that people have been asking questions about God and Jesus, but they almost always put 'but don't use the Bible to answer the question.'

What's all that about? That's like asking someone to answer a question about Stephen Hawking's theories without quoting 'A Brief History Of Time', or about Islam without mentioning the Quran. It's just a way to STOP any proper answers.

How can you talk about faith without giving the reason's why you believe?

First) I think that what many of those who post that way are trying to avoid a circular argument.

Question: "Why do you believe in the Bible?"

Answer: "Because the Bible says I should."

See, now we are back to square one and the first question wasn't answered. One must first believe in the Christian Bible or they wouldn't believe that part that says to believe. So, in the case above, the answer is really no answer at all. Two days in a class on logic would prevent someone from ever again using the above non-answer.

Second) Folks are not content to just live and let live. After spending a couple of years here at ATS, I am quite convinced that some people just want to argue. For various reasons, they are not content to just have their beliefs - they must argue those beliefs. Psychologically this validates their convictions and gives them an outlet for frustrations surrounding their convictions.

Still, others simply enjoy fighting. In my opinion, this love of conflict is the inevitable result of a highly individualistic culture.

I would love to see something like this one day:

Question: Why do you believe in GOD?

Answer: Because I want to, it works for me.

or

Question: Why are you an atheist?

Answer: Because I want to be, it works for me.

Oh the conflicts that would be resolved if only we were that confident! If only we held our beliefs to be entirely too personal to drag through the mud on a discussion board. If only we were so truly at peace with ourselves and our beliefs that we no longer needed to bicker or try to prove anything.

So much could be gained if we all stopped wasting time trying to make everyone think alike.

AMEN!

I think the purpose of sharing one's belief (or just the fact of having such) is good only to encourage others that WANT to find something they can believe in - in helping them see there ARE rewards for belief...if one truly believes in that which they believe in, whatever it may be.

I'm coming to the same conclusion.

Too many times I've got into heated discussions (on ATS and elsewhere) where the other person has no intention of learning my viewpoint (of course I'm just as guilty as the other person).

Now, if somebody was genuinely asking questions and wanting to learn, then giving them my views would be constructive. I've changed my own viewpoint on some issues by doing this but it seems that others can't, specially in some of the conspiracy areas.

In the future I'll most likely just become a lurker.

edited for bad spelling and grammar!!

[edit on 20/2/07 by jimboman]

Jimbo, you seem to have forgotten something. This is an international board and not all posters are Christian or believe in any kind of written scripture. Therefore, for those posters, anything that the bible,koran or any other religious texts has to say is of little value to them. That is why some posters say don't quote scripture.

I myself, although I am technically Christian, do not think its necessary to quote biblical passages to make every point you want to ake about God or Jesus, but, then I am not exactly an orthodox Christian either. So...

well, it's easy to discuss god without using the bible
god is an abstract concept of an omnipotent creator being that is beyond full human comprehension
there's plenty of general philosophical discussion that can be derived simply from talk of said being

Originally posted by jimboman
I've noticed a few threads recently that people have been asking questions about God and Jesus, but they almost always put 'but don't use the Bible to answer the question.'

What's all that about? That's like asking someone to answer a question about Stephen Hawking's theories without quoting 'A Brief History Of Time', or about Islam without mentioning the Quran. It's just a way to STOP any proper answers.

How can you talk about faith without giving the reason's why you believe?

Because the Bible is largely a piece of fiction any you don't quote fiction for reality. It's like quoting the Lord of the Rings to prove the existence of Mordor.

[edit on 2/20/07 by RedDragon]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
This is an international board and not all posters are Christian or believe in any kind of written scripture. Therefore, for those posters, anything that the bible,koran or any other religious texts has to say is of little value to them. That is why some posters say don't quote scripture.

I understand that, but it's when people ask questions about Christianity and say don't use the Bible to answer that I'm talking about. I wouldn't ask a Muslim a question and not ask him to quote the Quran.

Speaker's right. It is entirely possible to have meaningful discussions about Christianity, or any religion for that matter, without referencing the Bible or Quran. I've had plenty of conversations with a friend about our different beliefs and not once have we referenced scriptures of any kind. It all comes back to the fact that if you're not Christian, you most likely don't believe that the Bible is the word of God anyway so why would someone quoting what you see as fiction help the discussion? Then you get side tracked from the real issues and end up discussing whether or not that particular book came straight from God or if it was just written by men. That's not a discussion of religion, it's a discussion of a book.

Originally posted by RedDragon
It's like quoting the Lord of the Rings to prove the existence of Mordor.

Good point...if you were looking to answer questions about Mordor reading and quoting from the "Lord of the Rings" series would seem like a logical place to find information...would it not?

Or would it make sense to ask you about Mordor but you cannot use anything that was ever written by the author?

Yes we Christians believe the the Bible is God's word and record....we will use it as such....YOU don't factor in here.

Peace....

Originally posted by kinglizard
Yes we Christians believe the the Bible is God's word and record....we will use it as such....YOU don't factor in here.

Peace....

Let me ask you, how would you like for someone of different beliefs or religions to tell you that you don't factor in when they are discussing their personal beliefs or religion? How'd you like that? Oh, but I forgot, their beliefs and religion isn't "true" right? That was a pretty biased thing for you to say,Kinglizard. Thank ya.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Let me ask you, how would you like for someone of different beliefs or religions to tell you that you don't factor in when they are discussing their personal beliefs or religion? How'd you like that? Oh, but I forgot, their beliefs and religion isn't "true" right? That was a pretty biased thing for you to say,Kinglizard. Thank ya.

Other people don't "factor in" when we talk about MY belief in God and MY belief that the Bible is God's word.

You are welcome....



Edit: to add quote

[edit on 2/22/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard


You are welcome....

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Rather than a laugh and dance I would actually like you to explain your post above. You say some nasty and sarcastic things about me so please explain. Why should someone else's opinion be factored into my religious beliefs?

EDIT: to say that normally I would just let you bow out as you intended with the lol post but considering your attempted attack on me I'll pursue.


[edit on 2/22/2007 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard


Rather than a laugh and dance I would actually like you to explain your post above. You say some nasty and sarcastic things about me so please explain. Why should someone else's opinion be factored into my religious beliefs?

All I am saying is that being that you feel that way, you, nor anyone else, should expect their beliefs to be factored into what anyone else's believes. That's all I am saying. Since, you take everything I say so personally, I will just quit responding to your posts... Sorry that you take such offense.

[edit on 22-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

By the way, where did I attack you? I attacked what you said, yes, indeed... I didn't attack your character though as you seem to be implying. Thank ya.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
you nor anyone else, should expect their beliefs to be factored into what anyone else's believes. That's all I am saying.

NO that's what I said.

Here is what you said.

Let me ask you, how would you like for someone of different beliefs or religions to tell you that you don't factor in when they are discussing their personal beliefs or religion? How'd you like that? Oh, but I forgot, their beliefs and religion isn't "true" right? That was a pretty biased thing for you to say,Kinglizard. Thank ya.

Please explain....

Here is what you said KingLizard:

Originally posted by kinglizard

Yes we Christians believe the the Bible is God's word and record....we will use it as such....YOU don't factor in here.

Peace....

Now, there is nothing necessarily wrong with what you said. However, what I am saying is that if that is fair to you, then it should be fair to everyone. For example, if I was Hindu and I was talking about God, why should I accept what the Christian Holy Bible has to say about God over what my beliefs say about God? Yet, some "Christians" seem to think they should. You see where I am going?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Now, there is nothing necessarily wrong with what you said.

I appreciate your approval...thanks for changing your original opinion.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
if I was Hindu and I was talking about God, why should I accept what the Christian Holy Bible has to say about God over what my beliefs say about God?

I never said you should....did I.

Well rather than going to a hypothetical situation that has nothing to do with the above we should simply look at your original post.

I was replying to not you but to someone else. This person compared the bible to the lord of the rings. I say that their belief doesn't factor into my belief. You then step in and say insulting things because I don't factor in their belief. You then come back and completely reverse what you said in the beginning and are now back to where we started. Make up your mind....

Listen your above explanation completely goes against your original post when you condemned me when I said this person and his beliefs don't factor in to my belief.

Now you are supporting my original statement.....Nice try....

Court's Adjourned....

Originally posted by kinglizard
Listen your above explanation completely goes against your original post when you condemned me when I said this person and his beliefs don't factor in to my belief.

Kinglizard, I don't know where I "condemned" you, but, I am going to let it rest because quite frankly, I am tired of discussing it. I just don't think that I'll be responding to anymore of your posts.. You seem to want to take everything on a personal note.