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Iraqi women to hang for acts of resistance!

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posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 11:33 AM
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Right, the fourth convention...

CONVENTION (IV) RELATIVE TO THE PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN PERSONS IN TIME OF WAR

Article 5 (extract).

"Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.

Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention."


and

Article 68 (extract).

The penal provisions promulgated by the Occupying Power in accordance with Articles 64 and 65 may impose the death penalty on a protected person only in cases where the person is guilty of espionage, of serious acts of sabotage against the military installations of the Occupying Power or of intentional offences which have caused the death of one or more persons, provided that such offences were punishable by death under the law of the occupied territory in force before the occupation began."


Even if you want to think of them as civilians they had clearly forfeited thier protection under the convention by their actions.




posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by befoiled

Originally posted by deltaboy
If you want, I can post more videos of the "resistance's" justice. I'm sure you approved it.


I doubt a video exists of the rape and murder of an Iraqi girl and her family by American troops. I guess you'll just have to use your imagination.




So you're gonna try to equate the aberrant behavior of a few soldiers with the standard operating procedures of the insurgents? Could you post some videos of insurgents rebuilding schools, hospitals, getting infrastructure working again, establishing law and order, or anything positive for that matter?



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Throw out the genevanconventions though right?


You keep bringing up the GA fine but let me ask you this. What did those women do when they killed [civilian police?


Hint: They Broke the rules of the very same convention by killing civilians.

So are you saying it is OK from them to break the GC? You can not have it both ways if it is wrong for one it is also wrong for the other. Oh wait they were not wearing uniforms therefore not covered by the GC which makes them ordinary killers. And kindly do not jump on me and insist they got no justice, because they did get a trial.

As for your comments regarding their having children perhaps they should have considered the consequences first huh?




[edit on 2/20/2007 by shots]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by deltaboy
Funny about your response since I was mocking about how you guys are somehow pissed of about "resistance" fighters receiving justice, when I post some videos of the insurgents method of justice that you tend to be quiet about it or decided to change the subject.

So your theory is, that you can Fight Fire with Fire?

Screw Justice - if the resistance does not follow it, why should the Coalition?

Just show everybody that the so-called Liberators are not better then the resistance in Iraq and that the goverment of Iraq is also not better then resistance in Iraq - and that they do not obey international laws or conventions, but rather behead or hand their prisoners of war.

What a lovely country!

Democratic yet?


So you're at least admitting that the methods that the insurgents use are unjust? Why exactly do you support their causes then, rather than those that want stability?



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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rockpuck
This is most likely not even the real story, you see this person Syrian Sister does anything possible, even down to pathetic typical rhetoric you expect right off aljazeer to fit the needs of her own desperate cause.

The subject of this thread is not syrian sister, nor any other of your fellow posters.




Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Talk about misstreating prisoners of war!!!!!!! Talk about throwing out the geneva conventions!!!!!!

The iraqi government is not bound by the geneva conventions, and these women can't be considered prisoners of war by the iraqi government because they are iraqis. The US government could consider them POWs, any foreign government could, if it was them dealing with these women, consider them POWs, but its a domestic government, dealing with domestic people. They are not, thus, POWs.


These 3 women are going to be executed by the collaborationists and the occupiers, for the act of being patriots and fighting for their national independce!!!!!

The iraqi government has the right to try and execute its own citizens.


Killing resistance fighters just like the nazi's did.

So you agree that they are guilty of the crimes they have been charged with, they are fighting against hte iraqi government, because they consider it to be an illegitimate government.
Since when is 'the government and law doesn't apply to me' a workable defense within the governmental legal system?

Even if you don't agree with what these women where fighting for, you don't just kill enemy prisoners!

They're not being 'just killed'. They were caught, there was a trial, they were found guilty, and no one denies that they infact did what they did.

Bombing collaborators and occupation troops was completely within the rights of these women.

Its clearly illegal, according to Iraqi Government Law, to attack and kill members of the government. There is no ability to mount any legal defense within the system here.
And as far as the geneva conventions and intenrational law, those institutions provide for the execution of insurgents, even by a foreign occupying power, let alone the actual government of the nation.

Throw out the genevanconventions though right?

The geneva conventions permit for insurgents to be captured, held, tried, and executed.

I suppose you think it would be ok to execute a captured US soldier so long as he's given a trial?

There is no way to legally argue against it. THere is nothing that says a soldier can't be captured, tried, and executed.

You think it was ok for the french resistance to be summarily executed by the nazi's?

This is not a summary execution, there was a trial. A summary execution would've been if they caught them, and shot them. A summary execution is where there specifically has not been a trial.


Its absurd to suggest that they have a right to kill government members, but that the government doesn't have a right to kill them.


Never mind about the fact they where not given a lawyer or a proper court case.

A government does not have to give a defendant like this a lawyer, and a trial did occur.
Why are western judicial standards being applied here? Western judicial standards recognize that the Iraqi government is legit, and that you don't have a right to take up arms against it, kidnapping and killing people. If western judicial standards apply, then sure, these women should've been given a defense team, and equally sure, they should be executed, because they are guilty of multiple murders.

because under the geneva conventions, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE!

It is the right of the occuied to resist, under the geneva conventions, it is ALSO the right of a foreign occupier to hunt down, arrest, try, and execute resistance fighters. LET ALONE the right of the actual domestic government.
The US military has the internationally recognized right to round up every resistance fighter, have legal proceedings to show that they were resistance fighters, and then execute them. Certainly the Iraqi Government also has that right.

The same thing that's supposed to happen to all POW's, they are held prisoner untill the end of the war, or exchanged , not shot.

I don't know where you've been getting your infomration, but a captured soldier is not, carte blanche, protected from being tried and executed.

What about the resistance fighters that the collaborator puppet police helped kill

Since you are admiting that they are resistance fighters, then the legal police, 'puppet' or not, have every right to try to capture them, even if it means they get killed in the process.

This is a war crime pure and simple

It pretty clearly is not. A soldier is not immune from prosecution after being captured by a foreign army, and these women weren't even soldiers and weren't even fighting against a foreign army, they didnt' kill american troops, they kill civilian police officers.



souljah So your theory is, that you can Fight Fire with Fire?

Like for like is, of course, silly. If they hit you with a fist, you get a rock, if they hit you with a rock, you get a knife, if they come at you with a knife, you get a gun.



Agit8dChop
This lady fought for her home, her family and her country, fighting the occupiers who invaded her land based on LIES...

They kidnapped and murdered their own citizens. They apparently don't even deny that they were part of the resistance.
Its absurd to say that person has a legal protection to carry out attacks on their own government and fellow citizens, either the law and the courts nad hte people behind it is 'false' and thus no appeal within it can be made, or the government is legite, and these women are murdering criminals.
[quiote]What would you feel, if you saw your wife being hung, bceause she fought the people who invaded and occupied America?
I certainly wouldnt' hire a lawyer to argue that I have a legal right under the occupiers law to attack them.


Your turning into savages

The only savages are the ones specifcally targeting their fellow iraqi civilians and engaging in mass murder and sectarian violence.



Britguy
If these women were denied proper legal representation then that's a big issue.

Proper according to who? Us? Or the Iraqi Government? If iraq is a soverign legit government, then its up to it to decide how to deal with people working to overthrow it.
They were given a trial and even their defenders agree that they were killing members of the government and trying to overthrow it.


Orwells Ghost
Depending on which narrow perspective you approach this from these women are either heroes or criminals

Our own parochial interpretations are irrelevant, the iraqi government is the only authority that is relevant here, and its pretty clear that these women, from that perspective, are murdering criminals.

At the very least ask yourselves how many new insurgents will be born out of the death of these women.

Far less than if the government made it legal to take up arms against itself.




blueraja
So you're gonna try to equate the aberrant behavior of a few soldiers with the standard operating procedures of the insurgents?

You'd have to demonstrate that the soldiers were a mere abberation, and that the majority of insurgents are commiting atrocities.
The iraqis clearly have a human right to resist. They can take up arms against the government and occupier, and kill its members, without being 'criminals' in a moral sense. Of course, these women tried to kidnap and murder civilian police officers, and most insurgent attacks leave masses of civilians dead, with the only targeting factor seeming to be 'are the targets member of a rival sect/tribe', and those people could be considered immoral, unethical, criminals.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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quote: blueraja
So you're gonna try to equate the aberrant behavior of a few soldiers with the standard operating procedures of the insurgents?

"You'd have to demonstrate that the soldiers were a mere abberation, and that the majority of insurgents are commiting atrocities.
The iraqis clearly have a human right to resist. They can take up arms against the government and occupier, and kill its members, without being 'criminals' in a moral sense. Of course, these women tried to kidnap and murder civilian police officers, and most insurgent attacks leave masses of civilians dead, with the only targeting factor seeming to be 'are the targets member of a rival sect/tribe', and those people could be considered immoral, unethical, criminals. "


The only ones claiming that American soldiers routinely rape and murder innocents are the Western Left and Al Jazeera. I think it's safe to say that the preponderance of evidence would show that isn't the case.......and that insurgents have no qualms about committing horrific acts.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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So you're gonna try to equate the aberrant behavior of a few soldiers with the standard operating procedures of the insurgents? Could you post some videos of insurgents rebuilding schools, hospitals, getting infrastructure working again, establishing law and order, or anything positive for that matter?



Where does one find infastructure and law and order in Iraq today? Our very actions there have created the monster you term "insurgents."



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by befoiled
Where does one find infastructure and law and order in Iraq today? Our very actions there have created the monster you term "insurgents."


The disorder in Iraq IS the insurgents. THe sectarian violence IS the insurgents. THe US screwed up by not effectively stopping the Insurgents.

That makes it a US reponsibility to stop the violence, but its clear the crime of the insurgents. Iraq is so violent today because of the insurgents. Even if they are opposed to the iraqi government, they could and should participate in elections, not bomb markets and try to wipe out 'heretics'.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Nygdan]



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Listen to you all?

This lady fought for her home, her family and her country, fighting the occupiers who invaded her land based on LIES...



INVADED HER LAND? All we wanted was to set up a government that actually has control of their lawless ones. Nothing more.. We didn't invade "her land" to kill her. If she would have been friendly, heck if that entire country would have been friendly, nobody would have had to die... The only sacrifice the Iraqis would have had to make was to obey a few frikken laws. But they couldn't handle that.


America didn't go in shooting at anything that moved. We went in with the Rules Of Engagement, don't shoot unless being shot at. It's to bad they keep shooting back...






Originally posted by Agit8dChop
and you believe its right to HANG her , because she defended her home?


Here in America, if a guy is at his own house, and he shoots an intruder in the back, the home owner will go to jail for life, and even get put to death. If he shoots them in the chest, its self defense, unless evidence proves otherwise.

So yeah... killing multiple people should grounds for being put to death..

Nobody has the right to take a life from this Earth.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:08 PM
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They believe of an eye for and eye. They did murder many people, but it was wrong that they had no legal cousil. They should work on this. But in the end if they did it, they should hang under their laws.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by befoiled
Where does one find infastructure and law and order in Iraq today? Our very actions there have created the monster you term "insurgents."


The disorder in Iraq IS the insurgents. THe sectarian violence IS the insurgents. THe US screwed up by not effectively stopping the Insurgents.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Nygdan]


I agree Nygdan, though I will refrain from answering the actual discussion on hand due to uh .. it being to ... delicate a situation as to how a story can be miscontruded into the what the title of this thread says..

Look at Kurdistan, I think it was CNN or one of the big boys who did a beautiful story over the Kurdistan region..

Did you know over the entire war 4 US soldiers died in Kurdistan?

We currently have about 60 some troops in Kurdistan on active duty, they with their 175k army provide their own security, and though there has been attempts no suicide bomber has broken the borders...

While the rest of Iraq is mangled and torn, bloodied and poor...

Kurdistan buildings massive shopping centers, million dollar condos, mcDonalds, and Universities.. they even adopted English as a second language that all kids are being taught.. but no one cares about the love Kurds feel for America. Kurds where at one point the absolute poorest of the poor in Iraq, now they are the most succesful..

Personally I think the entire invasion was worth it just to give the Kurds a chance at life, to truly become something.. that freedom, that liberation is worth the thousands of American lives lost and even more so to spare them the bloodshed their barbaric neighbors endure.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Listen to you all?

This lady fought for her home, her family and her country, fighting the occupiers who invaded her land based on LIES...

and you believe its right to HANG her , because she defended her home?



The words of a TRUE AUSSIE !!!!!!!!, i could not have said it better. I know for sure if that was me in Iraq i would be fighting the Yanks with every dirty tactic i had.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by helium3

The words of a TRUE AUSSIE !!!!!!!!, i could not have said it better. I know for sure if that was me in Iraq i would be fighting the Yanks with every dirty tactic i had.


I'm glad that you agreed. You are to use the tactics that bombs market places, mosques, funerals, etc. That pretty much killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Thats what the resistance does.
You are a true resistance fighter.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by helium3

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Listen to you all?

This lady fought for her home, her family and her country, fighting the occupiers who invaded her land based on LIES...

and you believe its right to HANG her , because she defended her home?



The words of a TRUE AUSSIE !!!!!!!!, i could not have said it better. I know for sure if that was me in Iraq i would be fighting the Yanks with every dirty tactic i had.


Let's just take a bit of a reality check at this time. None of us have the slightest idea of these women's circumstances or what specifically motivated them to kill and kidnap their victims so let's drop this emotional nonsense about fighting for their homes and families. For all we know their homes are nice and safe far away from Baghdad.

Helium, amongst those dirty tactics would you include murdering your fellow Aussie policemen?



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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I laugh at the reasonings given here trying to back the mess and joke that Iraq has become under occupation including so call justice system to be friendly only to tribal links.

Is OK for the new poppet American government manipulated justice system to try citizens and execute them . . .

And that is good and dandy and is called justice.

Under Saddam he was a murdered . . .

the Hypocrisy is so incredible that makes me gag.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:48 PM
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The disorder in Iraq IS the insurgents. THe sectarian violence IS the insurgents. THe US screwed up by not effectively stopping the Insurgents.

That makes it a US reponsibility to stop the violence, but its clear the crime of the insurgents. Iraq is so violent today because of the insurgents. Even if they are opposed to the iraqi government, they could and should participate in elections, not bomb markets and try to wipe out 'heretics'.

[edit on 20-2-2007 by Nygdan]



The disorder was caused by the U.S. invasion which was launched under false pretenses and is perpetuated by this administration. Besides resulting in the death of over 3000 Americans and an untold number of Iraqis, it has only made Iran stronger and bolder.

I agree with the Aussies in that if I were an Iraqi citizen I too would, after watching members of my family or friends being abducted, raped, tortured, and killed, AND having no work, no means for support, no running water or electricity, AND having watched my city torn down, I would use whatever means necessary to get rid of the invaders, whether I were to strap on a dynamite vest or take pot shots at helicopters.

Once a person loses all hope they are capable of anything. That is the reality Iraqis find themselves in today, nearly four years after Bush's "victory."

This is a terrible, immoral war. We started it and will ultimately lose. We owe the world an apology.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by helium3
The words of a TRUE AUSSIE !!!!!!!!, i could not have said it better. I know for sure if that was me in Iraq i would be fighting the Yanks with every dirty tactic i had.


Those are the words of true suicidal maniacs.

Yeah go ahead and try to kill a bunch of people that don't want to hurt or harm you, and just want to restore order. See how far you get... I bet you get as far as Saddam did.


This is the way I see it..... an analogy.

Iraq was a large house with a bunch of young kids in it, and no adults to be found. They were all disobedient, and didn't have anyone to enforce rules. Rules like, "no trashing the house", "no fighting", "share".... and so on. These kids came and went without say, and they vandalized neighboring houses (USA and other countries) with their lawless ways....

Then the adults from other houses had enough. They were going to put a stop to these kid's lawless ways. They march over to their house, not wanting to hurt any of the kids, but to restore order. These adults wanted to hire and train babysitters (Iraqi Police), so that the house can always have rules in them, and the kids will not get out of hand....

The kids resisted. They killed multiple babysitters, and multiple adults, and forced other adults to defend themselfs. Some of the innocent kids were even killed because the lawless kids hid amongst them, while fighting the adults. Till this day, the adults and babysitters are still searching the house for the lawless kids. Yet, just like the movie "Home Alone", these kids set traps...

What the kids do not understand is the will power of the adults (USA). We will never loose, we will never accept defeat, we will fight untill there is nobody left, 110% effort for ever and ever and ever, untill the kids finaly learn what "peacefull" means.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Connected

What the kids do not understand is the will power of the adults (USA). We will never loose, we will never accept defeat, we will fight until there is nobody left, 110% effort for ever and ever and ever, until the kids finaly learn what "peacefull" means.


The kids you said, humm US against one of the older civilizations in the world, haaaaa the arrogance of the younger nation against the older in the world.

Doesn't that sound like parts of the end of times prophecies.?

Yes, the arrogance . . .
dream a littler dream my sweet. . .



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by befoiled



The disorder was caused by the U.S. invasion which was launched under false pretenses and is perpetuated by this administration. Besides resulting in the death of over 3000 Americans and an untold number of Iraqis, it has only made Iran stronger and bolder.

I agree with the Aussies in that if I were an Iraqi citizen I too would, after watching members of my family or friends being abducted, raped, tortured, and killed, AND having no work, no means for support, no running water or electricity, AND having watched my city torn down, I would use whatever means necessary to get rid of the invaders, whether I were to strap on a dynamite vest or take pot shots at helicopters.

Once a person loses all hope they are capable of anything. That is the reality Iraqis find themselves in today, nearly four years after Bush's "victory."

This is a terrible, immoral war. We started it and will ultimately lose. We owe the world an apology.


Grab a car, fill it with artillery shells and become a VBIED and blow yourself up in a marketplace, I'm certain those Iraqis would celebrate your fighting spirit.



posted on Feb, 20 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Grab a car, fill it with artillery shells and become a VBIED and blow yourself up in a marketplace, I'm certain those Iraqis would celebrate your fighting spirit.


The market place incident was the retaliation of sectarian violence during the day, the Shiite were targeted after the Sunnis became a target earlier the same day.

So yes Iraqis against Iraqis, but hey that is what liberation and freedom means in Iraq now . . .

You can target your enemies now . . . but don't dare target the occupations because then you get to face a poppet court and become an example. . .

Saddam has been replaced and this time the ruling class are Shiites.



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