Proof that our 2007 is Mayan 2012 !!

Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is the name

after that you might try to translate Oxlaj into spanish from Mayan and see what you come up with

where do you come up with this nonsense

please englighten all of us to what it translates into with your link



[edit on 24-2-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 24-2-2007 by cpdaman]

Werll then you obviously do not study enough of the language of these cultures, their pictograms and shared stories and religeous (of what ever slant) ceremonies.

name me ten

There are HUNDREDS of enexplained exact matches of these between cultures prior to any contact between them. I dont need to evidense it for you learn look yourself, not by some pseudohistorian (as you appear to be!) just look at the pictures, ceremonies, words matching exactl;y, no interpretation in front of your eyes... explain that then please great sumeriologist.

what you are claiming is actually pseudoscience and you have the cheek to call me one
here is the explanation o great pseudoscientist
there is no connection other than those made by a host of non experts
real experts on mesoamerican culture laugh at claims like that
and they would know

In addition 20012 will be a solar maximum year and we will be for the first time in millions of years in line with the galctic centre.

actually we're no where near the galactic centre

So things will be happening then, the mayans did postulate a year for the end of their cycle however as you rightly said this was based on the birth of venus as a starting point, they do however postulate that at the end of the cycle a new on e begins stating that it is like birth and death the old order will be changed and a new one begun.

nope its actuallyu just the same as our calendar starting each year on january the first

Now im not saying the world will end and all the other doom saying stuff, though I do believe as proven scientifically it certainly at least on an astronomical basis they were spot on.

they knew of only five planets
you think that is astounding ?
I am astounded by what you don't know yet think you do
its actually funny

Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is the name

and where is the biography that I asked for
or a link to the website of the council of world elders

I think what I might do is start calling myself by a silly made up name and then go round claiming to be in contact with aliens from the pleaides (Oxlaj is saying that) and then see how many of you people who know nothing about the real mayan culture suddenly start listening

i would encourage anyone to read the last half page and look at marduk comment's and remarks and make up a determination of his character

i think anyone with a discerning mind can see the double talk, contradiction, and nonsense that fill anythread that disagrees with his view point as the epitomy of well.....





[edit on 24-2-2007 by cpdaman]

Well I'm pretty certain there's as much chance of the world ending in 2004 as there is of it ending in 2007 or 2012

so what you are saying is that you can't provide any evidence that this self proclaimed alien contactee is on the level
thats what I thought
nice personal attack
gonna backfire on you though as you're the only one posting in ignorance here

Don Alejandro has been sent out as a messenger by the Council of Invisible Beings to warn the world that we are at a critical crossroads for the future of Mother Earth

theyre so invisible they dont have their own website

These crystal skulls were brought from the Pleiades, they speak of reincarnation.

woohoo crystal skulls as well

TextThe crystal skulls that are from the Mayan pyramids have been given to a woman to hold and protect. Later they will be returned to the pyramids. Anna Mitchell Hodges is holding them.

thats odd as shes the daughter of the only guy whos crystal skull was known to have been made in germany

The first teachers from the Pleiades taught the astronomy and the beginning of creation, the Great Mysteries. They have the power of the sixth and seventh senses and the third eye. They came to teach us these things. The way of working together, etc. There have been many visitations from the Pleiades,

tribes.tribe.net...
woohoo he belives that aliens from the pelaides taught the maya about astronomy, how comes they didn't tell them there were more than five planets then
ahahahaha

as you can see
this "expert" of yours is hardly credible is he
which of course means
that you aren't credible either
in fact it would be fair comment to say that you're full of crap

and now everyone reading this post knows it
have a nice day now won't you
i'll be back tomorrow

who is talkng about the world ending essan?



this is the same misinformation the mayan elders speak of being tired of

marduk =

i think those that can think outside the box got the message if they read the last page in full

see ya fellas

this is the same misinformation the mayan elders speak of being tired of

nope
the Mayan elders are tired of people claiming that their calendar is a prediction of the end of the world
and that their knowledge came from aliens
and that their culture was implanted by anyone but them
all the stuff this crank who you are supporting is saying
the hopi who he also claims as ex mayans say the same thing

We have 5000 codices. We study these. We communicate with the invisible ones, the star people, who gave me my name,"Wandering Wolf." I come in fulfillment of the prophesies of the Mayan and Hopi, which says: "Those of the center will unite the eagle of the north and the condor of the south, because we are one, like the fingers of the hand."

tribes.tribe.net...
in fact here is a comment from an e mail that I received in response to one i sent from Stewart Koyiyumptewa the archivist for the Hopi Cultural Preservation Office

To speak to the alien question in your e-mail, this concept was brought to the Hopi elders in the 1960’s and 1970’s by the Hippie generation. During this time the Hopi were visited frequently by these people and we didn’t have a way of dealing with them. The Hopi elders only humored the idea to get them off there backs and it is not a Hopi belief.

I hope this gives you a bit of insight to what Hopi is today. Most all the information on Hopi on the world wide wed is inaccurate and not supported by the tribe. For further research on Hopi you may submit a research protocol to our office. This can be found on our web site:

www.nau.edu...
Sincerely,
Stewart Koyiyumptewa

now Stewart is a genuine elder of the Hopi nation which is why he holds that exalted position
and he says youre talking crap as well
so
make your own mind up
if you still have one




[edit on 24-2-2007 by Marduk]

i'm sure hopi elders guard there prophecy's very much to themselves and would not have a public website talking about it and any interview would be very rare

infact an art bell interview (i beleive the first national interview) with two hopi elders spell's this out pretty clearly

that there is also tension within the tribes to speak out nationally

and as the email you quoted said that the hopi were just trying to humor the hippies to get off there back about the aliens ( because they guard they're prophecy's very secretively) and some within the tribes would not like this information to be made public, so i'm sure they have no problem humoring you and saying it is nonsense to get you off there back

[edit on 24-2-2007 by cpdaman]

making it up as you go along
apparently when a ufo nut says hey i am in contact with aliens from the pleaides and they told me somethings going to happen its acceptable evidence for you

but when I post a quote from a known representative of the Hopi nation who says what you are saying is crap you say its a lie.
do you get off on calling respected amerindian elders liars because it suits your agenda ?
further to that heres the link to the official Hopi website
www.hopi.nsn.us...
perhaps you could find something on it that states they have an end of the world prophecy which coincides with 2012 because in total ive spent several weeks on there and i've never seen anything like that

and if they are lying
how do you know that your friend Zorro isn't a liar as well
what makes him seem truthful to you ?

you clearly have an agenda Cpdaman
and its not one that will ever enable you to discover the truth
because you think you already know it
well listen up buddy
you don't know anything
all the evidence you have submitted is from new age sites
and all the people you have quoted are quite clearly cranks

you'd know this for yourself if you'd actually bothered to spend 5 minutes researching this
but hey
you know best right
your imagination told you


[edit on 24-2-2007 by Marduk]

The whole world ending/aliens/jesus/whatever you reckon is going to happen in 2012 because the mayan calender stops at 2012 thing. Something I haven't seen anyone mention in all my readings on this topic on ats is.

They had to stop somewhere. Couldn't just keep on going forever perhaps the person or persons making the calender died and no one wanted the job. Who knows. Or perhaps they just thought hang on 2012 none of us will be around then I think we have ourselves covered we can stop now.

Just a thought

Originally posted by Marduk
actually we're no where near the galactic centre

Can you actually not understand what is being said here, or are you playing dumb so you don’t have to agree that you were wrong in what you posted to me?

It does not mean that the Solar system is near the center of the Milky Way, it means that it is parallel with the Milky Way’s plane of the ecliptic. Meaning that we are in alignment with the center of the galaxy, not near the center of the galaxy…

You should really learn to think in three dimensions when you’re talking about space, not in two.

Originally posted by Marduk

John Major Jenkins is a pseudohistorian

this time with a credible link by an anthropologist or historian who has actually studied the maya and preferably one who doesnt give speeches to people on the interstellar brotherhood

Hm, now I don’t know John Jenkins from Adam, but I searched though his site, and I cannot find anywhere he mentions anything about aliens or an interstellar brotherhood. For that matter, neither did I mention such things.

Perhaps you just like to throw out the Alien connection as a trolling tactic to discredit others links…

So far Marduk all I see from you in this thread is impolite ridicule of other posters. Demands for proof, while not being able to support your own claims, then posting a slue of irrelevant links on a different topic. Ignoring legitimate arguments put forth to you based on your supposedly superior knowledge that you cannot prove with any facts.

To me you have added nothing worthwhile to this thread and I am starting to believe you’re simply a troll that likes to incite arguments, and needs to be placed on ignore.

PS: Still waiting on those supporting links about how the Mayans did not believe that the dark rift of the Milky Way was the galactic birth canal, and how they did not set the 2012 date in accordance with when they believed that the earth would be aligned with that rift and thus on the plane of the ecliptic with the center of the galaxy as they understood it…

[edit on 2/25/2007 by defcon5]

PS: Still waiting on those supporting links about how the Mayans did not believe that the dark rift of the Milky Way was the galactic birth canal, and how they did not set the 2012 date in accordance with when they believed that the earth would be aligned with that rift and thus on the plane of the ecliptic with the center of the galaxy as they understood it…

I have provided links that the Maya knew of only five planets
that there Calendar wasn't devised by them
that the 2012 correlation is complete rubbish
if you choose to ignore them and rant on and on about how I can't disprove a negative then you've got a screw loose haven't you

So far, I see links about the Hopi, the Babylonians, and the Egyptians, if there was a link there about the Mayans (other then the one you meant as an insult to another member), can you please repost it.

This is every single link that you have posted in this thread up to this point:

Originally posted by Marduk
Mediterranean Area and Middle Eastern views of cosmetology:
www.religioustolerance.org...

The Myth of a 12th Planet in Sumero-Mesopotamian Astronomy:
www.michaelsheiser.com...

Sumerian Star Catalogue
www.astronomy.pomona.edu...

The Planet X Saga: The Scientific Arguments in a Nutshell
www.badastronomy.com...

Don Alejandro de la Vega
vivi8.free.fr...

Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj, Mayan Elder
tribes.tribe.net...

Welcome to the Official Hopi Cultural Preservation Office Home Page
www.nau.edu...

Welcome to the Hopi Tribe
www.hopi.nsn.us...

This…

Originally posted by Marduk
I have provided links that the Maya knew of only five planets
that there Calendar wasn't devised by them
that the 2012 correlation is complete rubbish

Is not stated in any of the above links, the only link that even talks about the Mayans is one you were making fun of…

In addition, what does Sumerian knowledge of only five planets, Planet X, Hopi trouble with Hippies, and other such nonsense have to do with the alignment of the ecliptic plane as measured by the Dark Rift of the Milky Way?

Now post a RELEVANT link or your Trolldom is confirmed IMHO…
Humorously enough I happened to read this post first thing this morning, before the mods edited it…

Originally posted by clearmind
Thread
you know cinlung...when the big 'M' sees this he will tears us down into little itty bitty bits and throw gobs of links at us show how wrong and feable minded we are along with a healthy dose of laughing faces and veiled insults about us.....
i wonder who the most ignored member on ATS is.......

Seems darn familiar in tactics, I wonder who the mysterious Mr. M could possibly be…

Werll then you obviously do not study enough of the language of these cultures, their pictograms and shared stories and religeous (of what ever slant) ceremonies.
name me ten

There are HUNDREDS of enexplained exact matches of these between cultures prior to any contact between them. I dont need to evidense it for you learn look yourself, not by some pseudohistorian (as you appear to be!) just look at the pictures, ceremonies, words matching exactl;y, no interpretation in front of your eyes... explain that then please great sumeriologist.

As said I know this ive no reason to prove it to you as stated do some research lets give some tasters for you though:

In the incongruous atmosphere of the Wilshire Hotel in Los Angeles, The Dalai Lama laughed, noting the striking resemblance of the
turquoise around Grandfather David's neck to that of his homeland. He
replied: "And where did you get your turquoise?"

"Tibetans and Native American Pueblo people share a fondness for
chile (though Tibetans claim pueblo chile is too mild!)," says
Pacheco, "and a fondness for turquoise, used by both cultures as ways
to ward off evil spirits. Also, the prophecy of Guru Rinpoche, when
he said, 'when Tibetans are scattered throughout the world, and
horses run on iron wheels and when iron birds fly, the dharma will
come to the land of the red man.'"

Even before most westerners knew where Tibet was, much less what
their situation was, and almost twenty years before the advent of the
Tibetan Diaspora, cultural affinities between these two peoples were
noted by Frank Waters in his landmark work, Book of the Hopi (1963).
Waters' analysis went below the surface, citing corresponding systems
of chakras or energy spots within the body meridians that were used
to cultivate cosmic awareness. In The Masked Gods, a book about
Pueblo and Navajo ceremonialism published in 1950, Waters observed
that the ZuÒi Shalako dance symbolically mirrored the Tibetan journey
of the dead. "To understand [the Shalako dance's] meaning, we must
bear in mind all that we have learned of Pueblo and Navaho [sic]
eschatology and its parallels found in the Bardo Thodal, The Tibetan
Book of the Dead, in The Secret of the Golden Flower, the Chinese
Book of Life, and in the Egyptian Book of the Dead."

url=http://www.livinginthelightms.com/hopi]Source[/url]

Of course Frank waters is totally below your level of research and understanding?

what you are claiming is actually pseudoscience and you have the cheek to call me one
here is the explanation o great pseudoscientist
there is no connection other than those made by a host of non experts
real experts on mesoamerican culture laugh at claims like that
and they would know.

I suppose the Dalai Lama has no knowledge of his culture and is not an authority to confirm the links between the cultures?

ex]The stone tablets of the yellow race of people are kept by the Tibetans, in Tibet. If you went straight through the Hopi Reservation to the other side of the world, you would come out in Tibet. The Tibetan word for "sun" is the Hopi word for "moon" and the Hopi word for "sun" is the Tibetan word for "moon".
Source

In addition 20012 will be a solar maximum year and we will be for the first time in millions of years in line with the galctic centre.

actually we're no where near the galactic centre
nope its actuallyu just the same as our calendar starting each year on january the first

I think if you research this properly especially using the information from Quatocatzl or whatever the "winged serperts" name is in native tongue you will find differant!

The astronomy of 2012 can be found on any website I suggest nasa if you believe them, and I refer to a previous posters point.

they knew of only five planets
you think that is astounding ?
I am astounded by what you don't know yet think you do
its actually funny


Im laughhing hard too at you mate learn and grow.

Do you know when they knew of these planets and what modern westerns idea of planets and the universe was then. I took us the invention of the telescope to find 2 of the ones they were aware of a couple of thousand of years before.... yep I am astonished.... though I never mentioned this in my previous post so I dont understand what you are on about!

elf.
[edit on 26-2-2007 by MischeviousElf] spelling and rant :-)


[edit on 26-2-2007 by MischeviousElf]

Do you know when they knew of these planets and what modern westerns idea of planets and the universe was then. I took us the invention of the telescope to find 2 of the ones they were aware of a couple of thousand of years before.... yep I am astonished.... though I never mentioned this in my previous post so I dont understand what you are on about!

what I am on about is what the Maya believed the planets and the cosmos were
they didn't know what outer space was.
the lights in the sky to them were mythological entities.
venus which they studied above all other thinsg was believed to be the heart of Quetzlocatl topalkin after he had immolated himself on a burial pyre
they didn't know that it was a planet like the earth at all, they thought it was a God. do you get that. you are claiming all sorts of crap that they knew about astral alignments when they clearly didn't understand the term astral at all. this is laughable it really is
they at no time stated that anything will end in 2012 or that anything extra special would happen in the cosmos at that date
perhaps you could link to a Mayan text that has them saying anything about 2012 and how they believe it will be the end of anything

and Nasa buddy have an official website
heres their page on 2012
search.nasa.gov... esheet=nasa_production
oh look
no mayan prophecies at all
your problem is that you have chosen to believe crap
and now that other people point out to you that your beliefs are crap you're too deep in to admit they might be right
that would take a bigger man than you are
and hey
I'm still laughing at you

Originally posted by Marduk

and Nasa buddy have an official website
heres their page on 2012
search.nasa.gov... esheet=nasa_production
oh look
no mayan prophecies at all

Oh look... Your wrong again, that is besides your link not working correctly:

Solar Physics NASA Marshall Space FLight Center
The Maya/Aztec calendar, which is extremely accurate, began on August 13, 3114 B.C.E1 or 4 Ahaw 8 Kumk'u in the Mayan language. The Maya concept of time was of circles within circles which only appeared to be linear. The calendar stone shows that we are in the fifth creation, with the four previously destroyed ones surrounding the central figure. The end of the fifth creation of the Maya calendar is on December 23, 2012 of the Current Era (C.E.2).

Hm, so NASA mentions that we are in the 5th cycle that is about to end in 2012, and the previous 4 cycles ended in destruction...

[edit on 2/26/2007 by defcon5]

I asked

perhaps you could link to a Mayan text that has them saying anything about 2012 and how they believe it will be the end of anything

posted by defcon 5
Oh look... Your wrong again,

the N.A.S.A site says nothing about a disaster in 2012
so its the basic inability to understand written english that is the problem here
the previous four worlds were imperfect
the gods according to the maya succeeded in this attempt
so once again i'm going to ask you to link to a genuine maya text that states that 2012 will be the end of something apart from their calendar

claiming what some bizarro cranks think the maya might have meant when they didn't say anything of the kind is not proof of anything except that our civilisation has cranks making "spurious claims"
you might want to look that term up and see how it applies to all of your posts on this subject


actually would you like to point out where any prediction from an ancient culture about a far off event long after they are gone has come true ?
or perhaps how any future prediction at all has been proven 100 % correct
or what the current scientific belief on the power pf prophecy is ?

Originally posted by Marduk
so its the basic inability to understand written english that is the problem here

Yes it is, the problem is that you are so busy picking on others posts, trying to show us all what an expert that you are, that you never read what anyone else says.
Prime example:

Originally posted by Marduk
so once again i'm going to ask you to link to a genuine maya text that states that 2012 will be the end of something apart from their calendar

Up to this point where have I said that anything would end, other then the calendar?
Maybe you should actually READ my original post:

Originally posted by defcon5
The end of the Mayan calendar has to do with a celestial event that occurs. It has nothing to do with the date of 2012 or 2007 as they did not use the Gregorian calendar to make their calendar. So the event is scheduled to occur in December 2012 on our current calendar, and any changes in our calendar do nothing to effect that date. The event is the Earth entering the dark rift of the Milky Way, which they knew of as the cosmic birth canal.

To which you replied:

Originally posted by Marduk

The event is the Earth entering the dark rift of the Milky Way, which they knew of as the cosmic birth canal.

prove it
with credible links
I'd be willing to bet money that you can't

Again you have yet to support your original claims that I was incorrect.
DO NOT come back at me with how I missed some link, I reposted your links about 5 posts above, and there is NOTHING relating to the Mayans in those links…

But it is ABSOLUTLY against your religion to admit you’re wrong isn’t it?

Now do I personally think that the Mayans intentions were that there would be the end of an age in 2012?

Actually yes, I do believe that was their intentions, the reason being that the Mayans believed in cycles, and since the previous four cycles had ended in destruction and re-birth, so will the fifth.

Mayan Civilization
Like the Aztec and Inca who came to power later, the Maya believed in a cyclical nature of time. The rituals and ceremonies were very closely associated with celestial/terrestrial cycles which they observed and inscribed as separate calendars. The Maya shaman had the job of interpreting these cycles and giving a prophetic outlook on the future or past based on the number relations of all their calendars.

And they believed that this would culminate as an event in the heavens:

Mayan Religion
The night sky was considered a window showing all supernatural doings. The Maya configured constellations of gods and places, saw the unfolding of narratives in their seasonal movements, and believed that the intersection of all possible worlds was in the night sky.

This event is the earth entering the dark rift, or the birth canal, from their perspective in South America, such as this shows:
alignment2012.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

This alignment is when the earth is on the direct plane of the ecliptic in conjunction with the center of the Milky Way Galaxy, no matter if they realized that factor or not…

Actually yes, I do believe that was their intentions, the reason being that the Mayans believed in cycles, and since the previous four cycles had ended in destruction and re-birth, so will the fifth.

clearly you don't have the mental capacity to understand so I will do a little basic math for you with a little elementary anthropology
it is true that the Maya didn't believe in linear time and that they saw everything as cycles
the calendar itself is a good exhibit for this belief as it is a wheel within a wheel within a wheel

so you have to balance this with the credibility of their beliefs
The first world was ended by a universal deluge,
The second world was ended by a universal deluge
the third world was ended by a universal deluge

the dates for these are according to the maya calendar which you are saying is sacrosanct at three periods of 5126 years
first world flood approx 13336bce
second world flood approx 8240bce
thrid world flood approx 3114bce

unfortunatley this is where your whole house of cards collapses into a pile of sewage and refuse
there have been no universal deluges at those dates and Homo sapiens as a species has happily lived through all of them no problem at all
so you specifically are claiming that the Maya calendar which is based on cycles of destruction is predicting something that will happen because so far its been accurate
clearly
that is just garbage
it has been wrong all the way down the line
the Maya did not have advanced astronimical knowledge
and you my friend are the all time loser in the "trying to be clever" stakes
still if I were you why not sign over all your property and worldly possessions to charity on 2012 anyway
might give you some peace of mind
clearly at the moment its in turmoil

Originally posted by defcon5
It does not mean that the Solar system is near the center of the Milky Way, it means that it is parallel with the Milky Way’s plane of the ecliptic. Meaning that we are in alignment with the center of the galaxy, not near the center of the galaxy…

You should really learn to think in three dimensions when you’re talking about space, not in two.

You might also heed your own words.

The Earth is actually in perpetual "alignment" with the center of the galaxy. What changes is that every spring equinox, the rising point of the sun comes closer to the "dark stripe" of dust in the center of our galaxy. Right now, it's just a few points off.

Remember that this isn't due to changes in the Earth's orbit or the solar system in relation to the rest of the galaxy... it's due only to the wobble of the Earth on its axis.

The Earth hasn't ever moved out of "alignment with the center of the galaxy" in all of recorded history and even long before then. Run one of the astronomy programs and you can see the same phenomina... how the stripe of dust moves from one side to the other and then back to the center over the course of several thousand years.