Why are Atheists Atheists?

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posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by slymattb
Thats what you and other athesis say. That God does'nt. And that we are hell bent on pushing are beliefs on you. And yet you cannot disprove that God does'nt exist.


but YOU CAN'T PROVE IT!

again, if it is my duty to disprove the existence of your deity it should also be both of our duties to disprove the existence of EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE DEITIES AND SPIRITS

can you disprove the existence of thor? what about amateratsu? poseidon? the invisible pink unicorn? fama? the flying spaghetti monster?

i will state this once and for all. the burden of proof lies with the person making a claim on the existence of something.

i may not be able to disprove your god, but i don't have to. you are the one that has to prove that it exists




posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 12:12 AM
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slymattb,

I wasn't suggesting that you were attempting to push your beliefs onto us - I was suggesting that GreatTech was - otherwise he would not have opened this thread - GreatTech is obviously on a conversion crusade (and admits as much quite some pages ago).

You misunderstand atheism. An athiest simply does not 'believe' that a God exists. That is all.

You, as a believer, can maintain your 'faith' without any 'proof' - fair enough. Athiests require some proof or at least some compelling evidence to change their views.

So from our point of view, it is up to you to convince us that God actually exists.

If we were out to change your views then we might be seeking to disprove the existance of God, but that doesn't fall within the definition of atheism.

An athiest might find your beliefs foolish, but that does not automatically mean that we want to convert you to atheism.

So you can see that if the matter of proof is involved then the onus is on you to prove God's existance, not for us to disprove it. Just like you, our non belief is simply that - a matter of belief or non-belief.

Therefore, if GreatTech wants us to believe in a creator being, he is going to have to come up with some rational, logical, unrhetorical evidence. He started this thread to preach at us, we didn't come here to destroy his faith, or to convert him, merely to defend our right to believe or not believe, as we see fit, without being insulted for doing so.

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 11/4/07 by The Winged Wombat]



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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I was'nt trying to piss anyone off. All I was saying you see. Is alot of athesis I known are bent on makeing people give them proof of God then they will believe. The fact on the whole bible is free will in chooseing God. If God gave proof then free will would be destroyed.

Athesis get mad when one cliams truth but cannot show them proof. What I say is if taken the right steps one can have the proof. Just not one were God comes down and smacks them on the head.

So when a athesis gets mad and evil with saying show me proof. i say disprove him. You cantnot disprove he is the only God and alive. Nor get you say he is not.



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by slymattb
I was'nt trying to piss anyone off. All I was saying you see. Is alot of athesis I known are bent on makeing people give them proof of God then they will believe. The fact on the whole bible is free will in chooseing God. If God gave proof then free will would be destroyed.


well, according to you it didn't stop lucifer and a crapload of angels




Athesis get mad when one cliams truth but cannot show them proof. What I say is if taken the right steps one can have the proof. Just not one were God comes down and smacks them on the head.


we don't want a deity to come down from high, we just want scientific evidence



So when a athesis gets mad and evil with saying show me proof. i say disprove him. You cantnot disprove he is the only God and alive. Nor get you say he is not.


but your argument is pure deflection. if your position was supported by evidence you'd have every right to ask me to disprove it, but it isn't so you have no right to say what you say.



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Well Great Tech,
I will start by saying I mean no disrespect whatsoever to you or anyone else for that matter. However, nowhere in any Bible of ANY religion does it state your purpose to be one of recruiting any non-believer of YOUR faith; not for any reason at all, whatever you believe that reason to be. You asked a simple question with wrong intentions. The intention behind your question should have steered you towards posting a thread of a different topic such as "Are you looking for God? Let me show you the way". A thread of that nature would have gotten you much better results and BY CHOICE, those interested would have shown up. Or...perhaps you should have just stuck with the topic YOU chose "Why are Atheists Atheists?" and simply gotten your answers, done your research and moved on without judgment. The key word in this is CHOICE! It is not for you to choose what is right or truthful for anyone else. I'm sincerely happy you have found something that works for you but, out of respect for all mankind you should value the moral ethics of those you encounter rather than their religious or non religious beliefs. Whether or not you are an Atheist, Catholic, Baptist, Pagan, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., etc., has no bearing on what type of person you truly are. All of that starts at home with teachings from your parental figures and your environment from the time you are born until the time you are of age. At some point in time we've all encountered a few unkind religious and non religious folk (I think you get the point).
Again, I come back to CHOICE: You stated you were arrogant and lost as an Atheist and you didn't become a kinder being until after you found God; well, I hate to break it to you but, you chose to be arrogant. Like everyone else, you can choose to wake up every day and see your life as crap or you can put a smile on your face, do the very best with what you have and be kind to all you meet. Finding ones own self is the most valuable trait any of us can put to use whether we are of a religious sect or not. It is not your right or anyone else's right to claim your way to be the only way; that is just not a very God loving way to be. Take radical Muslim's in Iraq for instance; the belief to serve Allah is not for anyone to point their finger in a wrongful manner...it's the drastic/wrongful interpretation of the Koran in destruction of mankind that is wrong. That is not the teachings of any God, that's simply paranoia and extremely low self worth. This scenario can be used pertaining to any religious sect and I would also to a certain degree, apply it to you. You have interpreted your Bible wrong and you are doing God a great disservice by placing judgment upon others. You have sparked a debate of a no win situation and you are only causing yourself a headache. The type of hypocrisy you have displayed here is one of the many reasons why there are so many non believers. I certainly wouldn't follow a God who teaches such things and I'm very curious as to where you got your insight of this being proper behavior? After all, my truth, your truth, the guy next door's truth, doesn't make it right or wrong; the importance is all in how you use that truth.
I am not a believer in any God but, as someone brilliantly said in a previous post (sorry for not quoting): the teachings of Jesus are about love. I couldn't agree more! How can you go wrong when you approach the universe and all of it's beings with nothing less than pure love in your heart?
So, if you feel as though the non believers are to be damned to your hell, then I say let us be damned; it is our choice and as long as we're nice about it.....WHO CARES?!?


[edit on 11-4-2007 by ariesanngel]

[edit on 11-4-2007 by ariesanngel]

[edit on 11-4-2007 by ariesanngel]



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by ariesanngel
However, nowhere in any Bible of ANY religion does it state your purpose to be one of recruiting any non-believer of YOUR faith; not for any reason at all, whatever you believe that reason to be.


Actually…


Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.



Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.


And…


Matt 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Source: www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...



This is why JWs go door-to-door preaching the word.



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 07:26 AM
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ConspiracyNut,

I stand corrected, thank you for enlightening me. I respect that.
I should have done my research and elaborated with: I just don't see where it states anywhere that preaching with judgment or demeaning words is the necessary way. Hence, shaking the dust off of your feet. It would be very nice to see a more polite reaction towards those who chose a different path.



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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ariesanngel,

I could not agree more.

If we were all more tolerant of the views, lifestyles, customs, values and beliefs (or non-beliefs as appropriate) of others it would be a much more peaceful, and safer world.

If we as a species had been able to control our suspicion, envy, jealously, paranoia and especially greed and intolerance, the pages of our history books would be almost devoid of war.

The Winged Wombat



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:44 AM
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Winged Wombat,

I appreciate your kinds words and I agree with you as well.

It's very nice to know there still are kind hearts amongst others even if we appear as a minority. It keeps hope alive and maybe someday it will make a more vast difference.
Until then, know as I do that if one person can come out of this learning the grand lesson; it's one less frown in the way. And that... is progress.

Cheers!



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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ariesanngel, let me first state the I love God and all of His creation including atheists. Implied, I love you as a human being even though we have different belief systems. But please do not be hypocritical!!! You are trying to influence people as well; if nobody on ATS wanted to influence other people, the total number of posts would be ZERO!!!

I made this thread for at least 4 major reasons (the first might seem awfully strange to you and other atheists):

1) God told me to, although I certainly cannot claim to always speak or write the Word of God.

2) To learn more about atheism and have learned that some atheists are extremely angry at God, if He did exist in their minds. When I was an atheist from 1989 to 1995, I was not angry at God if He did exist; I just thought it was illogical at the time.

3) To possibly offer a few words of wisdom.

4) To possibly be altruistic and humanitarian by sharing a little information about myself; if I positively influenced one person to at least consider faith, then I would consider mission accomplished.

Life is part Heaven and Hell for theists and atheists alike; it is just my belief that faith in God is the Way in earthlife and the afterlife. Everybody has infinite potential!!!

God Bless!!!



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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Welcome back.

You are not being very curteous. First of all, you started a thread that asks a question. Then, when people answer that question, you blast them for not adhereing to your belief system. Secondly, you don't answer questions that people ask you. Instead you answer with a question. :bash:

If you don't like what people have to say, don't ask!


Others in this thread have been very curteous to you. I would like to put forth a request: Do unto others as you would have done unto you.



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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GreatTech,
...the only part I would say my post was of any "influence" was to go with the lesson of love straight from the heart no matter what your belief and to not push personal belief's upon others as if it's the only true way.
As you see in my post I did not go into my personal belief system other than to say I don't believe in God; this is not to say I'm not spiritual. Spirituality comes in many forms and I refrained from stating my beliefs as it's not my duty to impress it upon others. AND....this topic didn't ask for others to explain their personal belief system. If others are curious they would ask (there is actually a thread that asks this somewhere else on here) and even then I would start by saying my belief doesn't mean it's the only right way or the only truthful way for all to follow....it's simply what works for ME. Please don't put words in my mouth as you see fit. I feel sorry for the way you took my words out of context. There is nothing wrong with what you believe, the wrong for me comes into play when you clearly look down upon others who don't believe in the same thing you do. I despise olives but, I don't look down on my husband for enjoying them...C'MON MAN!! This is common sense respect for humanity. I would suggest that you read more thoroughly....my posts reads as it is with no hidden agenda behind it whatsoever. I'm actually quite baffled by your behavior.

[edit on 12-4-2007 by ariesanngel]

[edit on 12-4-2007 by ariesanngel]

[edit on 12-4-2007 by ariesanngel]



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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bjshobbes, I am sorry that I have been uncourteous to you. Actually, your question of what have your conservations with God been like is excellent. I have had daily conservations with God the last 12 years so the complete answer would fill numerous books. Some may feel that having a conservation with God is suggestive of insanity. Not necessarily, and frequently it speaks of enlightenment. I am basically a sane person that believes in God. I work 80 hours a week in medical research and usually do fairly good work.

Your excellent question has had me intermittently thinking on how to concisely answer it the last couple of days.

Blessings!!!



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
some atheists are extremely angry at God, if He did exist in their minds.

How can an Atheist be angry at what they don't believe exists? And for the most part...IMO...I see that the Atheists here are not angry at your God they are angry at you for the way you have unkindly come across throughout this topic. But, I can't speak for anyone else and this is not to say that I'm angry at you either. I find your approach..NOT your belief but, your APPROACH to be quite comical. It's just my opinion.


Originally posted by GreatTech
if nobody on ATS wanted to influence other people, the total number of posts would be ZERO!!!


Your opinion of ATS is yours to have and I now have a better understanding of why you are here, what a shame. I personally don't see ATS as a place to influence others...I see it as a place to discuss many different topics with a lot of very intelligent people who can meet in a place to say what is all too often gone unsaid.


Originally posted by GreatTech
To possibly offer a few words of wisdom.


Words of YOUR wisdom which I've already stated to be a personal choice.



Originally posted by GreatTech
if I positively influenced one person to at least consider faith, then I would consider mission accomplished.

Again, you should've started a completely different thread. Considering faith is one thing but, trying to get others to consider YOUR faith is a completely different story. Let's be honest here.


Originally posted by GreatTech
Life is part Heaven and Hell for theists and atheists alike; it is just my belief that faith in God is the Way in earthlife and the afterlife. Everybody has infinite potential!!!


YOUR belief...YOUR way...case in point. What kind of infinate potential are you speaking of? If I take that as it reads then you are correct and I would elaborate by saying everybody has the right to choose what that infinite potential is for themselves.





[edit on 12-4-2007 by ariesanngel]



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by ariesanngel
I find your approach..NOT your belief but, your APPROACH to be quite comical. It's just my opinion.


ariesanngel, if you were a theist and thought that the theistic lifestyle was significantly better than the atheistic lifestyle (I have experienced both), would you be altruisic and humanitarianistic and encourage atheists to have at least a little bit of belief in God? If you were a theist, give me a detailed approach how you would approach atheists. Or would you believe that any and all attempts would be a comedy?



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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GreatTech,

I agree with everything that ariesanngel has said above, and would wish to add this.

You have demonstrated arrogance and intolerance, both in the manner in which you started this thread (I dispute your motivation in starting it as stated above), and in your selective responses. Both of these qualities are unworthy of your 'faith'. The casual statement of your IQ and your choice of employment, in an attempt to show that 'you know better' and that you are more altruistic, is both arrogant and irrelevant to this discussion. As I'm sure even you can see, there are vast numbers of intelligent, altruist people throughout the world of all 'faiths' and political persuasions (or perhaps you cannot see this?)

Your last post amply demonstrates that you believe that 'your way' is 'the only way' - an unworthy and dangerous attitude. You blame your misfortunes on your (then) lack of faith, when in reality you should show a little maturity and admit to yourself your own lack of self-control (obvious, even though you have not detailed those misfortunes).

Ask yourself this question. If 'God' were conclusively proved not to exist, would you suddenly fall off the rails and return to whatever behaviour you exhibited during your lack of faith?

Further, I wish to point out that, unfortunately, these qualities are also foremost at the moment in US and other nations foreign policy. A continuation of such policies can only lead to continued conflict and the death and destruction which inevitably follow.

If, as you claim, you are in two-way communication with 'God' on a daily basis (and therefore, presumably, 'doing God's work'), then how can you rationalise your intolerance with the teachings of your religion?

The lesson here for everyone is that we all need to exercise tolerance in all matters including religious belief and politics.

The Winged Wombat

(How can you have 'a little bit of belief in God' - isn't that like being 'a little bit pregnant' - now that IS comedy)


[edit on 12/4/07 by The Winged Wombat]



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
if you were a theist and thought that the theistic lifestyle was significantly better than the atheistic lifestyle (I have experienced both), would you be altruisic and humanitarianistic and encourage atheists to have at least a little bit of belief in God?

It is tough for me to think that way, I'm just not wired to do so but, hypothetically speaking my answer would be:
Only if I were approached by someone who was looking for guidance within my spiritual belief. It is not for me to say that one spiritual or non spiritual lifestyle is better than another. That would be judgmental and uncalled for. I don't base my relationships upon a spiritual belief or lack of, I base them upon how we mutually treat each other as human beings. I would however always encourage anyone to believe in themselves first. Without belief in yourself it can get tough to believe in anything else...spiritual or not (IMO). I also don't feel altruism and/or humanitarianism should be limited to a spiritual belief.


Originally posted by GreatTech
If you were a theist, give me a detailed approach how you would approach atheists. Or would you believe that any and all attempts would be a comedy?

I believe the approaching should be done by the interested party. Again, it is not my place to impress my personal beliefs onto others. If a friend or even a stranger was in trouble or feeling lost my approach would be to get the root of their angst and aid in finding a solution that works for them personally whether that to be spiritual or not. For instance, a friend of mine lost her father in an accident 2 years ago and through an e-mail I found that she still struggles with this a great deal. I responded with letting her know that I'm here for her always and if there was anything I could do to help ease her pain I'd be willing 100%. I also added that whatever it is she needs to do for herself in order to become more full of her father rather than empty, I'd be there supporting her choices all the way so long as they were not harmful which would then require me going to her house even spending all the time needed in order to get her over the harmful bump in the road. Never did I respond by saying "You need to follow my belief system because it's the truth and it's the only way you will overcome this tragedy." That would've been selfish, uncaring and disrespectful to who she is as an individual. As well, it would go against everything I believe within myself and in humanity. Listening is a great place to start when helping anyone with anything...it's a great foundation to find what will help a person as the individual they are. I do not believe attempting to assist anyone is comical....I believe the approach in the assistance is of most importance. One has to maintain a sense of humor when there is a demeaning nature behind an approach.... and that is why I say your APPROACH is comical.To add further on the spiritual side....a lack of spirituality in no way suggests that a person needs "help". I have a great group of family and friends, some of us with completely different beliefs but, never does this infringe on our relationship to one another. It simply doesn't matter what you believe and again, it's all in how you treat each other that is of the utmost importance.



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:29 PM
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GreatTech,

'Humanitarianistic' (is this a real word?)

Once again, such arrogance - you are inferring that athiests are inhuman, or at the very least that it is altruistic and in the interests of humanity that atheists should be converted to YOUR GOD.

Even on a lesser level you are claiming altruism and humanitarianism as the sole domain of YOUR GOD.

And what if we choose not to convert, would you have us all killed off?

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 12/4/07 by The Winged Wombat]



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by The Winged Wombat

Ask yourself this question. If 'God' were conclusively proved not to exist, would you suddenly fall off the rails and return to whatever behaviour you exhibited during your lack of faith?


If God were proved conclusively to not exist (which is false, because He is Eternal back and forward through time), I would still remember the words of wisdom from a higher power that could control all my senses, consciousness, unconsciousness, and conscience. I would return to the realm of the highest possible level of human thinking imaginable because I was approached by the Deity (or former Deity, as you might say based on the way you phrased your question).

I recommend that you study the word "supernatural" because God's Love and Power vastly exceeds the sum of human love and power in history.

The Winged Wombat, if God were conclusively proved to exist, what, if anything, would you return to?



posted on Apr, 12 2007 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
I have had daily conservations with God the last 12 years so the complete answer would fill numerous books. Some may feel that having a conservation with God is suggestive of insanity. Not necessarily, and frequently it speaks of enlightenment. I am basically a sane person that believes in God. I work 80 hours a week in medical research and usually do fairly good work.

Your excellent question has had me intermittently thinking on how to concisely answer it the last couple of days.


To add to The Winged Wombat's thought on this....I for one feel that if you have had such frequent conversations over a 12 year time span you wouldn't need time to think of a concise answer at all. It should be right there at the forefront of your brain for you to explain at any given moment.

I would suggest you go through all 19 pages of this thread and answer every single one of the questions you have dodged thus far.


Although this type of debate is right up my alley unfortuantely GreatTech, you've become a bit of an energy vampire and that's my cue to step back for a while. We'll see what morning brings me and then I'm on vacation for a few days.

Hope you all enjoy your weekend!





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