Why are Atheists Atheists?

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posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
Personally, I condone no act of violence and war is the worse thing ever created by humans.



Just a quick point here, war was not created by humans, it is a natural occurance through out the animal kingdom since the year dot.
Animals are constantly fighting over resources, territory and for fun, the only reason for war invented by humans is religion.
Doesnt that say alot about our deity's!!




posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 05:32 AM
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ConspiracyNut23 and others, do you believe that Richard Dawkins and other "atheist" scientists are closet believers in God because of a "compensating balance" whereby they believe that by "not believing in God" in the earth-life they will receive greater rewards from God in the afterlife?

Personally, I believe the sooner you have faith in God the greater your Spiritual rewards will be in the earth-life and in the afterlife.



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 06:16 AM
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@GreatTech.
Why do you believe that nonbelievers must have an ulterior motive for not believing.
Most atheists are logical free thinkers, that is why they are atheists not because they are compensating for any perceived checks and balance rubbish.



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23



(can’t prove a negative)


Can you prove that?
Thank you for the video, enjoyed his opinions.

@Great Tech, I don't believe in "God" and I don't believe in lables. I consider myself neither Athiest nor Religious, and both at the same time, if I had to choose, I would say Existentialist. I cannot answer the question

[edit on 9-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
do you believe that Richard Dawkins and other "atheist" scientists are closet believers …

The thing is, there’s just no benefit to being an atheist. (Outside of intellectual freedom) An atheist has to admit that sometimes he just doesn’t know the answer. He can’t ever pull the God Catch-all card to answer the unanswerable. For instance, he must be prepared to accept that he doesn’t know (yet) what happened a few seconds before the Big Bang.

I can’t speak for Mr. Dawkins, but I happen to know a lot of people who believe simply because that’s what they were told. On the other hand there are plenty of atheists who jump on the no-god bandwagon without really thinking about it.


Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Can you prove that?


BTW, If you liked Dawkins, you will love Harris. (posted here)



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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Thanks, here are some threads about the big bang (Existence) and its faulty "God"/"outside diety based logic".

Why The Big Bang Didn't Happen

Why God Cannot Be Proved

Why time does NOT exist!

Thank you for the exchange!
Muchos appreciation

Hope this helps explain why "athiests" are "athiests!"



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
When God first approached me 12 years ago, I asked Him, "who created You?" He replied, "I AM" (implying Eternal Existence backwards and forwards). I was not very familiar with the Bible at the time, but found out later that He told Moses and Jesus the same thing. I am nowhere near the influence category of Jesus and Moses, but this is exactly what I learned from the Infinitely Great God's mouth.


So, you're telling me that you personally held a conversation with the alleged, almighty "God"? Or did you just hear him in your head? You couldn't have been simply approached by him like someone on the street approaches you. What was this meeting like? Where was he that you could hold a conversation with him? Did you get to look him in the eye? During this conversation, he implied to you that his existence is infinite and that's that? I'm sorry, but I'll be needing something in the way of...let's say, evidence. Not just here-say. Personally, I think religion was made up to keep social order, and to bring resolve to unanswerable questions.


Originally posted by GreatTech why do you assume matter is more powerful than a being? Cannot a Supreme Being be superior to any and all matter?


I did not say that one is more powerful than the other. I don't know enough about supreme beings and their relationship to matter. I think it's ridiculous to put anybody on such a pedestal. What kind of all powerful supreme being lets innocent children get raped? What a nice god. Yeah, let's bow to this guy. I think he needs a little judgment day himself. Judge me will ya? Go ahead, at least I don't stand (or float) idly by and watch someone suffer because it's my will. And I'm just human. I don't believe in "God" because (besides the lack of proof) his ways are selfish and cruel. If there was a "God", I'd try and punch him in his face when I died.

[edit on 4/9/2007 by bjshobbes]



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 07:06 PM
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For all atheists: how do you prove that you exist? Do you need a reference point? Is this reference point infinite or finite in time?



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
For all atheists: how do you prove that you exist?


Changed my youngest daughters nappy this morning, i know i exist after that little beauty.


Originally posted by GreatTech
Do you need a reference point? Is this reference point infinite or finite in time?


Isnt just the fact of experiencing life every day, (see post above), enough of a reference point.
Btw this question seems awfully familiar to other questions you have been asking in this thread lately, are you running out of idea's, or purposefully regurgitating the same arguments.



posted on Apr, 9 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
For all atheists: how do you prove that you exist? Do you need a reference point? Is this reference point infinite or finite in time?


Do you have a problem with answering my question? Don't answer my question with another question. That is beyond rude. You answer my question first, then I will answer your question. (Note: Your question is highly ignorant and devoid of rationality, but I'll be glad to answer it.)

[edit on 4/9/2007 by bjshobbes]



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 12:22 AM
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DISCLAIMER: I shouldn't have to say this, but I speak for no one else but myself here.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
That which is impossible only Exists in a reality accepting of impossibilities, Eternal Existence does not allow "impossibilities", to know that something is impossible is to have proved it impossible, that is if we're playing to the proof scenerio, and how can that be done?
For me, the word "impossible" only applies to things that are logically impossible (a priori), such as 1+1=3. That is impossible because of the very axioms of mathematics. If someone decided that is possible, then that person is not using mathematics.

Now, something like faster-than-light velocities seem highly improbable (not counting wormholes or Alcubierre drives or any other spacetime warping concepts or even tachyons) according to currently known laws of physics, but I'm not going to say it's impossible. I won't even say that deities are impossible. I don't think any exist, but to say that their existence is impossible is to take a step I won't take.

Basically, I think far too many people misuse and abuse the word "impossible" far too often. Only in the realm of logic and mathematics are things impossible.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by supercheetah
DISCLAIMER: I shouldn't have to say this, but I speak for no one else but myself here.


Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
That which is impossible only Exists in a reality accepting of impossibilities,


If there are no rules and preconditions, then we can apply logic to mathematics, take 1 and split it in half, now we have 3 objects. 1+1 can equal 3. 1 can be infinitely divided and infinitely multiplied. In every "one" I see only two and more.

Accepting the terms of mathematics and so called "logic" as limited is to subscribe to a limited reality, Existence is unlimited.

GreatTech, I'd also like to know how this conversation with God went, and what "He" looks like.

Thank you kindly

[edit on 10-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
If there are no rules and preconditions, then we can apply logic to mathematics, take 1 and split it in half, now we have 3 objects. 1+1 can equal 3. 1 can be infinitely divided and infinitely multiplied. In every "one" I see only two and more.

Accepting the terms of mathematics and so called "logic" as limited is to subscribe to a limited reality, Existence is unlimited.
You haven't disproven anything. If you split one, of course you end up with three numbers, but their sum is still two. Of course any number can be split infinitely. That's not disputed, but redefining the axioms of mathematics means you're moving outside the realm of mathematics.

Logic doesn't create limits. It only creates understanding and order. Without it, nothing makes sense. Existence may be unlimited, but there's no need to believe that understanding logic will create limits.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by supercheetah


You haven't disproven anything. If you split one, of course you end up with three numbers, but their sum is still two.


Ah, yes, but that is in a limited realm of reality. What about mitosis? I am not saying that they equal 1/2 each.

For example. Specific animals will continue to grow if cut in half or thirds. If we have 2 worms and one of them is cut in half and both halves grow to the same length as the worm that was not cut in half, then do we not now have 3?

Or if we don't talk about math in wholes, because Existence is not a whole, and we talk about it in pieces and parts, then if we take 1 apple and 1 orange (2 pieces of fruit) and cut them both in half, we now have 4 pieces of fruit.

There is no thing that is truly whole, that is why we have repeating decimals and numbers like pi.


Of course any number can be split infinitely. That's not disputed, but redefining the axioms of mathematics means you're moving outside the realm of mathematics.


Not entirely. It will be revised.


Logic doesn't create limits. It only creates understanding and order.


The system of "logic" creates limits, but the logic of Existence is unlimited. The logic of there needing to be order is illogical, it's an obligatory expectation. Who determines what constitutes logic and order? Did Mr. Logic and Mrs. order introduce themselves to the Human species and give them the laws of order and logic? Haha
(a little sarcasm with the seriousness)


Without it, nothing makes sense.


The concept of Nothing(no-thing) is a real consciousness opener when it makes sense. "Systematized" logic is not needed. For example: If I approached a philosophy teacher and told him/her that Nothing does not Exist, him/her would condemn it as a "tautology" instead of first trying to understand it. Yet we see tautologies all over mathematics, "needless" to say in our own language. Aren't we all just tautologies? Tautology merely creates tautologies by limiting expressions.


Existence may be unlimited, but there's no need to believe that understanding logic will create limits.


So If someone said that they oversat logic, would you understand? Or is that someone illogical? What if they said the opposite of right-side up is left-side down and not up-side down?

Hey, this is why Athiests are Athiests, they get to the "bottom" of things.

Supercheetah, please u2u me! I think we are going way off topic
Or maybe we can create a thread of our own. Thanks
Enjoyed the convo

[edit on 10-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 10:22 AM
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GreatTech,

As has been said before (to the same question you asked before) I don't really care if I 'exist' or not, but the proof of my existance, and all the other athiests here, is that you are hell-bent (God-bent?)on converting us to your particular beliefs. (Or do you often attempt to convert things / beings that don't exist ? Sounds pretty sad if you do, I'm afraid.)

I fear you have run out of arguments, and it is obvious that you have avoided soooooo many of the points raised in disagreement with you. You are contibuting little more that regurgitated discredited dogma.....


But by all means, please describe (in detail) your personal encounter with 'God' - I'd really love to know if 'He' is anything other than white and speaks with an American accent.

I would also like to make the observation that the assembled athiests here have been very very polite to you thus far by not mentioning some of the sexual perversions that have been sheltered (and continue to be so) by more than one Christian church.

I neither desire nor require eternal life, but if you need it, then by all means sign up for some - but you have about as much hope of selling it to me as a telemarketter or encyclopedia salesman (the lowest forms of marketting)

Instead of trying to convert us, how about enlightening us about why the Catholic Church takes so much money out of some of the poorest countries on earth, like Ireland and the Phillipines, for instance. More gold chalices for the Vatican, perhaps ?

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 10/4/07 by The Winged Wombat]



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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GreatTech

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
Luke 19:27

However, you said….
"Personally, I condone no act of violence and war is the worse thing ever created by humans."

Now since you claim that the Bible is the unalterable word of 'God', does this not put you at loggerheads with 'God'?

Did your personal encounter with 'God' include a briefing on what parts of the Bible you should obey and which you should not - if so, please enlighten the rest of us.

Alternatively, does this make you a 'bad' Christian?

The Winged Wombat



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Thats what you and other athesis say. That God does'nt. And that we are hell bent on pushing are beliefs on you. And yet you cannot disprove that God does'nt exist.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
List one or more reasons. I will list three:

1) Atheists have different thought patterns: rarely does God enter their mind for the cause and effect of any event.

2) Atheists have different vocabularies: frequently they score a little above average on "standardized tests" but these tests frequently have little to do with Sacred, Spiritual, and religious texts. They are more concerned with knowledge rather than wisdom. They frequently take part in the "selling of the soul syndrome."

3) Atheists' mind's eyes are underdeveloped: they frequently cannot associate the Creation of something as magnificent as the Universe to anything but a human or an atom of hydrogen.

Personally, I believe in God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When God approaches you, it is filled with love and power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm not sure if I read your post right but point #2 seems to be saying that
Atheists' aren't quite as smart as compared to those that believe in a god? Maybe I just read that wrong though.

I can tell you why I am Atheist and that is I can't by the concept of god as it is presented by most organized religions. Recently my mom was "confirmed" as a Catholic, having joined the church at an older age. I attended her confirmation ceremony, which was done in conjunction with a cermony.

Here is what I remember most from what the priest said ... that god is loving and makes everything that is good in the world and the bad things that are in the world are because man messus them up through sin. I have always had a very hard time buying into that concept.

So if I have a good job, nice home, healthy family and everything is great than that is because of a loving god providing for his people. But the second something "bad happens" ... if I were to get robbed than that is because of sinners not god. Well, IMHO, if he wants credit for the good then he needs to take resonsibilty for the bad.

With all the bad things happening around the world, especially to children, I have a hard time buying into a loving, all knowing, all powerful god concept. Why would such a creature allow young children to be molested, killed and physically/psychologically terrorized. If there was a god then he is very indifferent to the suffering of his people, or not all knowing, all powerful ... maybe just very powerful but there's too darn many of us to keep track of.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
madnessinmysoul, do you believe in Eternal Life? The sooner you follow God, the sooner you will experience God's good graces.


I hear this argument alot with god loving individuals. Eternal life or salvation or some form of it. Basically if you believe in god then you will live happily ever after in heaven. This includes the murderer who takes god into his heart while sitting on death row.

But for me, since I never believed in god I will be damned to hell or some form of that consquence. Never mind that I lived a good, clean life ... did work that helps my fellow man ... never stole and always walked the straight line. Those things don't matter if I don't pray to god, go to church and throw some $$'s in the coffer.

I have a hard time swallowing the idea that god would rather have a murderer, child molester and the like in heaven that "lost souls" like me. And if that's true than it surely doesn't sound like the type of heaven I would want to participate in.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Just wondering why its just children that are to be protected from rapists and all them other fruitbats? Arent we all entitled to it????


G





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