Why are Atheists Atheists?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

The question isn’t why you are monotheist; rather it’s why you chose to worship this particular Hebrew mountain god?

God did not just create mountains, He created everything.

"In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters." Genesis 1:1-2. I find complete confirmation of this statement when I pray to God.

If you believe your life has been a positive, praise God: give Him exalted praise for the blessings He has bestowed upon you.

If you believe your life has been a negative, pray to God and He will resurrect you out of the abyss and give you blessings beyond your current imagination. No prayer falls on deaf ears. It is our only "earthly' way of communicating with God.

If you feel your life has been a combination of positive and negative aspects, both praise God and pray to God and He will hold you dear in His heart. Remember that patience is a virtue and that we may not see immediate "results" but they will fall into place in a way that only a Divine Being can bestow upon us. Stretch your imagination to an Eternal perspective and you will find the comfort, peace, and joy that God gives to His followers.

Praising God and prayer to God never fails!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

The question isn’t why you are monotheist; rather it’s why you chose to worship this particular Hebrew mountain god?

God did not just create mountains, He created everything.

but historically your god seems to stem from the worship of a henotheistic mountain god.

"In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters." Genesis 1:1-2. I find complete confirmation of this statement when I pray to God.

and science finds it to be completely false when they actually look into it

If you believe your life has been a positive, praise God: give Him exalted praise for the blessings He has bestowed upon you.

so the hard work i've had to do to make good things happen in my life has been a blessing from above instead a product of blood, sweat, and tears?

yeah god, thanks for letting me do all that work!

If you believe your life has been a negative, pray to God and He will resurrect you out of the abyss and give you blessings beyond your current imagination. No prayer falls on deaf ears. It is our only "earthly' way of communicating with God.

here's the thing, my life was an abyss and i pulled myself out of it through hard work and determination

If you feel your life has been a combination of positive and negative aspects, both praise God and pray to God and He will hold you dear in His heart. Remember that patience is a virtue and that we may not see immediate "results" but they will fall into place in a way that only a Divine Being can bestow upon us. Stretch your imagination to an Eternal perspective and you will find the comfort, peace, and joy that God gives to His followers.

prayer doesn't work, if it did there would be statistical backing for it

Praising God and prayer to God never fails!!!

god must have some real issues with self-esteem if we've got to praise it so often

madnessinmysoul, do you believe in Eternal Life? The sooner you follow God, the sooner you will experience God's good graces.

I think you'll find that a lot of Atheists did follow God at one time. I was screwed over more when I believed then when I stopped believing and started taking control of my own life. Now I couldn't be happier. I am responsible for my own actions. Just because I am a non-believer doesn't mean I don't have morals. I am definately a better person than a lot of "believers."

Why is it so hard to believe that when you are dead, you are just that?

To quote one of my friends, "When you accept nothing, everything will be revealed!"

Originally posted by GreatTech
madnessinmysoul, do you believe in Eternal Life?

nope. not one bit. i expect to live to be anywhere from 72-90 and then i cease to exist as anything more than a memory.

The sooner you follow God, the sooner you will experience God's good graces.

....
there is nothing there for me to follow

your statement there is about the equivelent of me telling you

"the sooner you follow the way of pixies that give free donuts, the sooner you will get free donuts"

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by GreatTech
madnessinmysoul, do you believe in Eternal Life?

nope. not one bit. i expect to live to be anywhere from 72-90 and then i cease to exist as anything more than a memory.

madnessinmysoul and other atheists, in the amazingly powerful Universe in which we live, which of the following 4 choices would you select regarding the possibility of an afterlife:

1) possible and proven.
2) possible and unproven.
3) impossible and proven.
4) impossible and unproven.

Originally posted by GreatTech
[madnessinmysoul and other atheists, in the amazingly powerful Universe in which we live, which of the following 4 choices would you select regarding the possibility of an afterlife:

1) possible and proven.
2) possible and unproven.
3) impossible and proven.
4) impossible and unproven.

Well I guess this would be one of our common grounds.

There is no possible and proven, so number 1 is gone.
If something is impossible, then it is not possible, so 3 and 4 are gone leaving only number 2.

I guess it's time for one of these again!

Originally posted by secret titan

Originally posted by GreatTech
2) possible and unproven.

There is no possible and proven, so number 1 is gone.
If something is impossible, then it is not possible, so 3 and 4 are gone leaving only number 2.

And why should we waste our time on something such as that? (And that's not directed at you, secret titan.)

For all anyone knows, all the worlds religions are wrong about the afterlife. We have a virtually infinite number of choices when it comes to religion, and no way to test any of them.

Originally posted by GreatTech
4) impossible and unproven.

that pretty much sums it up. the conciousness does not exist independently of the brain. if you take a chemical substance it alters your conciousness, proof that it is a direct function of a biological mechanism.

the afterlife is impossible because there is nothing to move on once we die.

that which is impossible is 100% unproven because it cannot be proven

GreatTech,

1. Dionysus comes down to earth as god made flesh as a savior and is the son of God.
2. His Father is a god and his mother is a mortal virgin.
3. His born in a humble stable on December 25 before three shepherds.
4. He dies at Easter time for the sins of the world.
5. After he dies he descends into hell and rises again on the third day.
6. He preaches about a Holy communion of his sacred body and blood for the forgiveness of sins.

Source

He died four your sins and you ignore him!!!! (no afterlife for you :shk: )

Of course, Dionysus is not the only deity that the unoriginal creators of the New Testament plagiarize to create Jesus, (out of thin air, not divine) there’s a bunch more Life-Death-Rebirth deities to rip off.

And please Greattech give me more than:

Christian apologists charged the devil of copying Jesus' life into the past.
source

[edit on 7/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

ConspiracyNut23, I will list 5 of Infinite possible arguments why Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and not "Dionysus", a supposed mythological being started by a creative writer.

1) Jesus Christ has always existed and selected a few aspects of concepts that already existed on Earth before He appeared on Earth and established His Earthly Kingdom. Thus, Christ preceded "Dionysus."

2) Where are "Dionysus's" teachings??? Christ's teachings have been followed by the letter by billions of people in history.

3) Where are "Dionysus's" Disciples? Christ always had a following.

4) Christ performed dozens of miracles, as shown in the New Testament; where are "Dionysus's" miracles? Did he cure the blind or resurrect the dead?

5) God does not deceive. The 2+ billion Christians in the world generally do not take mythology too seriously and "Dionysus" is a mythological character.

ConspiracyNut23, do you have something against Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and other Biblical writers? Embracing mythology is your freedom of choice.

Without proselytyzing, I hope you can find the peace, comfort, and joy of Christianity some day.

Originally posted by GreatTech
1) Jesus Christ has always existed and selected a few aspects of concepts that already existed on Earth before He appeared on Earth and established His Earthly Kingdom. Thus, Christ preceded "Dionysus."

I admit, there’s absolutely nothing I can say to this line of reasoning!

So Jesus deliberately decided to be born during the winter solstice and die during the summer equinox to fit existing earthly concepts???

2) Where are "Dionysus's" teachings??? Christ's teachings have been followed by the letter by billions of people in history.

see Bandwagon fallacy.

3) Where are "Dionysus's" Disciples? Christ always had a following.

Again see Bandwagon fallacy. The cult of Bacchus/Dionysus had quite a following for a time.

4) Christ performed dozens of miracles, as shown in the New Testament; where are "Dionysus's" miracles? Did he cure the blind or resurrect the dead?

Yes.

5) God does not deceive. The 2+ billion Christians in the world generally do not take mythology too seriously and "Dionysus" is a mythological character.

I would say asking your follower to kill his only son “as a test” is pretty deceitful. You?

Again see Bandwagon fallacy for that last part.

Just because for a time most believed the sun revolved around the Earth, it didn’t make it so.

ConspiracyNut23, do you have something against Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and other Biblical writers?

If indeed they did in fact write the Bible. I don’t. Just like I have nothing against JK Rowling or Stephen King.

Embracing mythology is your freedom of choice.

Indeed, I find Joseph Campbell’s books (or that Bill Moyer doc) on the subject quite interesting. However, I’m able to see that Jesus obviously fits in the same category.

Have you seen The God Movie?

Here’s a part that applies to what I’m talking about. (especially the last minute and a half)

ConspiracyNut23, I admire your logical intelligence but not your Spiritual intelligence.

When God first approached me 12 years ago, He told me to live according to His rules and regulations. I did, but He always implicitly informed that there was more to living under His command. I started reading the Bible, and within a 3-month period completed it. But there was more. Just because I had read the Bible from start to finish did not mean that my life was complete. Later on, I realized I had to study and fully attempt to understand it to improve my life and those around me. Later, I found the words that had the most meaning in the Bible were the words spoken by Jesus Christ. I now consider His words the Gospel of the Gospels of the Bible. What has struck me most were three statements, paraphrased here: God is in the lowest of the low (sometimes I feel like the lowest of the low), the humbled will be exalted and the exalted will be humbled (I have eaten many shares of humble pie), and the first will be last and the last will be first (I often feel last).

God has directed me towards Christianity and not because of jumping on the "bandwagon." In fact, if God so directed me, I would be the first and last Christian.

Originally posted by GreatTech
ConspiracyNut23, I admire your logical intelligence but not your Spiritual intelligence.

I admitted when I first started this dialogue with you that I wasn’t spiritual and that I didn’t really understand what that term met. I still don’t.

However, I do hope that our comments (from many different angles) gave you an insight into why atheists are atheists.

Note, that I never denied that your belief in God could be positive. It seems obvious that they have been very positive in your life. However, if God ever tells you to attack Iraq, please reconsider the points made in this thread.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by GreatTech
ConspiracyNut23, I admire your logical intelligence but not your Spiritual intelligence.

I admitted when I first started this dialogue with you that I wasn’t spiritual and that I didn’t really understand what that term met. I still don’t.

However, I do hope that our comments (from many different angles) gave you an insight into why atheists are atheists.

Note, that I never denied that your belief in God could be positive. It seems obvious that they have been very positive in your life. However, if God ever tells you to attack Iraq, please reconsider the points made in this thread.

ConspiracyNut23, point well made. I cannot condone what George Bush has done and I wonder if he is a true Christian.

Personally, I condone no act of violence and war is the worse thing ever created by humans.

If a person wants one hair off your head, give he or she your whole head of hair.

What I mean by Spirituality is close contact with God where His name frequently enters our mind and we can feel His Spiritual and physical presence. Of course, this is relative, but I believe we will all equally feel God's presence by the end of this life (before the afterlife).

[edit on 7-4-2007 by GreatTech]

Originally posted by GreatTech
ConspiracyNut23, I admire your logical intelligence but not your Spiritual intelligence.

it hurt to read those last two words. how can we have intelligence regarding something that is purely irrational and requires one to ignore all facts and delude themselves

When God first approached me 12 years ago, He told me to live according to His rules and regulations.

and what makes you so special that an ALL POWERFUL DEITY THAT RULES THE COSMOS would approach YOU.

I did, but He always implicitly informed that there was more to living under His command. I started reading the Bible, and within a 3-month period completed it.

hmph, took me about 3 months the first time around too.

pquote]
But there was more. Just because I had read the Bible from start to finish did not mean that my life was complete. Later on, I realized I had to study and fully attempt to understand it to improve my life and those around me.


so instead of making your own deductions and looking at the works of the multitude of moral philosphers in the earth's history you went with a single bronze-age myth?

Later, I found the words that had the most meaning in the Bible were the words spoken by Jesus Christ. I now consider His words the Gospel of the Gospels of the Bible.

like Luke 19:27?

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

What has struck me most were three statements, paraphrased here: God is in the lowest of the low (sometimes I feel like the lowest of the low), the humbled will be exalted and the exalted will be humbled (I have eaten many shares of humble pie), and the first will be last and the last will be first (I often feel last).

um, so the beatitudes?

God has directed me towards Christianity and not because of jumping on the "bandwagon." In fact, if God so directed me, I would be the first and last Christian.

yet most of your arguments were bandwagon arguments...

and you completely ignored the points on dionysus

So, if I may interject with a question for the pro-God group: Who created God? Did he just spring to life on his own? Was he around "forever"? Or maybe he's just so great that he simply created himself? He created everything right? Well, who/what created him? Was there a Big-God-Bang? :bnghd::bnghd:

Originally posted by bjshobbes
So, if I may interject with a question for the pro-God group: Who created God? Did he just spring to life on his own? Was he around "forever"? Or maybe he's just so great that he simply created himself? He created everything right? Well, who/what created him? Was there a Big-God-Bang? :bnghd::bnghd:

When God first approached me 12 years ago, I asked Him, "who created You?" He replied, "I AM" (implying Eternal Existence backwards and forwards). I was not very familiar with the Bible at the time, but found out later that He told Moses and Jesus the same thing. I am nowhere near the influence category of Jesus and Moses, but this is exactly what I learned from the Infinitely Great God's mouth.

bjshobbes, why do you assume matter is more powerful than a being? Cannot a Supreme Being be superior to any and all matter?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

that which is impossible is 100% unproven because it cannot be proven

Dear madnessinmysoul,

I don't mean to be rude and I am not picking on you.

In all sincerity:

That which is impossible only Exists in a reality accepting of impossibilities, Eternal Existence does not allow "impossibilities", to know that something is impossible is to have proved it impossible, that is if we're playing to the proof scenerio, and how can that be done?

Now it must be proved that it is 100% impossible.

That which is 100% impossible is already proven, it is proven to be 100% impossible, but how?

It is never impossible to prove something, it is not even impossible to prove nothing, impossibility was just proved through its "unproven" attributes: Nothing is possible. If something is to be called unproven then it is now proved to be unproven... so it is up to us to prove that it is unprovable, and that is a possible impossibility, and that is not a contradictive contradiction nor do paradoxes Exist. So we live in an Existence of inconsistent consistencies and that is the consistency of the un-whole matter-energy that it is and is not, and that is what we are and what Existence is.

Please, if it makes you feel like this :bnghd:, stop reading at once

[edit on 9-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
That which is 100% impossible is already proven, it is proven to be 100% impossible, but how?

It cannot be proven to be %100 impossible. Even hardcore atheist Richard Dawkins admits that God as the great creator is possible. We just can’t prove it doesn’t exist. (can’t prove a negative)

Here’s Richard Dawkins… (Warning: A bit boring, certainly not as eloquent as Sam Harris, posted on page 9 on this thread)

Running time: 9:38