Hi, i would just like to state that high school is really overkill.
Everthing about it is set up to be a pain is the butt.
I really question the need for all this extra "education".
First, school starts too early. studies show that people, especially young people should be sleeping until 11am. most schools start at 8am.
Why should you sleep this long?? well, it helps with concentration and focus, along with memory. All things that we don't need when it comes to school.
Then, There is things we dont need to learn. becuase The USA is falling behind Europe in education standards, public schools are stepping everything up. how? by requiring more classes to graduate. giving more work, and even less sleep.
nothing the school systems do is completely thought out.
the thing that makes me the most mad is how they act like you need to be good at high school to be good in anything else.
I am not an A+ student. But that doesnt mean I am not smart. You see alot of people with A grades, and they end up mixing with the wrong people and doing Drugs. Grades have almost no connection to inteligence.
I get C's and B'c, and I am alot smarter then some of the people with higher grades then me. I'm not just saying that to brag or anything.
I know what i want to do for a job in my life. And i see nothing but hoops to jump through when i look at school. The work I have to do is totally unrelated to what i would like to do.
The problem is, i have to do good in all of it if i want to do What i want to do as a job.
I see alot of people drop out, not because they are not smart, but because they just feel that this is not needed, and it isnt needed. but in this day and age its the paper that counts that gets you your job.

school is nothing more then a filter for success.

There are soo many famous and inteligent people that didnt finish high school. So what makes it worth so much of everyone's time?

I understand The material we study is meant to give us a taste of different area's of education, but then why is it soo heavily graded?

To me, the only work I picture this educational system relating to is some office job in some building, working for some CEO, and " I want those papers on the desk by 5 O'clock on friday..". says the manager

or maybe being a.... SCHOOL TEACHER.


[edit on 16-2-2007 by WINGxZERO]

Originally posted by WINGxZERO

Why should you sleep this long?? well, it helps with concentration and focus, along with memory. All things that we don't need when it comes to school.

Seems you've answered your own question.


Lex

[edit on 16-2-2007 by Lexion]

The purpose of high school is just to sort out the people who will succeed in college from those who won't. Personally, I think that there should be far more trade schools for those that know that college is not the route for them.

Then, where you graduate from a vocational school at least you'll be able to find a job that pays a decent wage.

When I read your post, I'm pretty much convinced that you need to study much harder. Your writing needs quite a bit of improvement. However, your ideas are valid.

When my kids were younger, we never stressed grades, we stressed effort. THis was for whatever they wanted to try, sports, music, FFA, 4H and school.

They ended up at the top of their high school class and are now gainfully employed. You might try applying yourself very hard for a couple of years and see how it feels. There is no better feeling, in my opinion, than trying very hard and being satisfied with the result.

Ok, to answer Wildbob...
The points raised may SEEM valid, on the surface.
BUT, try getting a job these days without a H.S. diploma.
Min. wage, yes. Anything better ? Doubtful.
H.S. not only teaches the subjects, but teaches the discipline to learn and
grasp the concept of the subjects taught.
It teaches the reasons to research and learn on our own, to explore the
concepts put forth by the teachers that make our OP so miserable.

Just as an afterthought...I dropped out, in my senior year. I needed 3 electives to graduate. I'd already CLEP'ed 3 English college courses, and
2 math courses.
Why did I drop out ? I was a typical teen that thought I knew it all.

That piece of lambskin is priceless.

Lex

PS Got my GED, while serving in the Army. Want to learn a vocation ? Take the ASVAB, graduate and join a branch of the military.

In some connection, you could say that grades are for making rich people richer.
the CEO's want the cheapest and most efficient workers they can have.
they get all this information for helping them pick workers from the schools.

I can understand your frustrations..
Unfortunately our education system hasn't collapsed in on itself in a glorious flash of fiery light, giving birth to a new and improved education system rising from the ashes.

this is what we got man..
they don't really want us too smart.
So the best thing you can do is educate yourself by all means. Knowledge is indeed power. Until there is a change in the current system, as much as it sucks, these are the cards you've been dealt, you need to focus on getting through.

Chef from South Park said,
"There's a time and a place for everything,
its called college."

You might like college better than high school.

I agree that the education system we currently have is a mass, that does not really teach one anything more then to "do as told" and "on desk by 5".

Then, where you graduate from a vocational school at least you'll be able to find a job that pays a decent wage.

Also school forces us into the 'inside the box thinking' and makes us believe that we need to study hard, then get into college, then find a job ( with a decent wage in the best case ) and work there hard from 9 to 5, just to be able to support ourself in life.

Yet school does not tell us that no matter how hard we will work for someone, we would invest tons of time and effort, but still we won't be able to become to earn any significant amount of money.

Take a look at such school drop-out as Richard Branson, or another collage drop-out Bill Gates. I believe they are doing pretty well in life.

As a conclusion, I believe that school, knowingly or unknowingly, is turning people into working sheep, who would work long hours, obey orders and be pleased to get enough income to stay alive.

So if you don't want to be one of this sheep, it might be useful to start thinking how people really make money, what sort of character or knowledge do they need for it, how entrepreneurship works, etc.

Also school forces us into the 'inside the box thinking' and makes us believe that we need to study hard, then get into college, then find a job ( with a decent wage in the best case ) and work there hard from 9 to 5, just to be able to support ourself in life.

So it's inside the box thinking that working hard will pay off in the end?

Don't make me laugh.

School is a breeze compared to the real world, with real bills, real land lords and real low wages even with a HS Diploma.

Yet school does not tell us that no matter how hard we will work for someone, we would invest tons of time and effort, but still we won't be able to become to earn any significant amount of money.

Well in my old school the Guidance department had all sorts of information regarding career paths and expected entry level salaries (nowadays you can check on that yourself on the Internet, Google it!) in various Trade Skills(it was a Trade School ). My School set very realistic expectations and I seriously considered getting into welding, and would have too had my Doctor advised me against it(Asthma).

I know quite a few people who are now making good money Welding and Sheet Metal Fabrication(both of which was learned at the school through Auto shop). I don't see them complaining considering both trades are gonna have an accumulating shortfall in labor starting at the end of this decade as the baby boomers start to retire. Get rich by going into a trade. They plan on opening their own businesses when their employers retire(which is soon).

Take a look at such school drop-out as Richard Branson, or another collage drop-out Bill Gates. I believe they are doing pretty well in life.

Exceptions to the rule. Don't tout it as the expected result of anyone who drops out of anything. Quitting is a big sign of weakness and is a glaring mark against an individual.

As a conclusion, I believe that school, knowingly or unknowingly, is turning people into working sheep, who would work long hours, obey orders and be pleased to get enough income to stay alive.

People are stupid with their money. This is a fact. The key to massing wealth is to live below your means and to always try to advance your career to make more money. My dad used the 3 year rule. This rule states that if he isn't happy with his current situation at his current salary, he'd start shopping for a job and quit when he found one that payed no less than 10% more than his previous salary. He worked his way up from Operations salary(35 thousand in todays money in the 70s) to a Programming Manger(Six Figures).

So if you don't want to be one of this sheep, it might be useful to start thinking how people really make money, what sort of character or knowledge do they need for it, how entrepreneurship works, etc.

Those are called "Business Courses". To the business world, it doesn't matter how smart you are or even how capable you are. It's all about that piece of paper.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by sardion2000]

Well, i'll just come out and say what i'am interested in.

I would like to design military equipment. Design Body armor, aircraft, APC's. I could easily design body armor with my knowledge I have today, that would out perform current models. No problem.
I already have design concepts, that if given enough resources, Could become reality.
I find thinking up new Armor and other military equipment natural.
I can see faults in current designs.
i can visualise every piece of the equipment working in slow motion.
i create in my head physics based on esimated values from my current knowledge.
Basically, When im not doing anything, i start seeing bullets hitting ceramic plates in slow motion, deforming from impact like some matrix movie.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
I could easily design body armor with my knowledge I have today,
(snip)
i create in my head physics based on esimated values from my current knowledge.

Dude,

Okay, drop out of school, then try to get a job at DARPA designing new high tech military armor. If you used grammar and spelling like you did in the above post you would be laughed out the door.

Next, you'll need an advanced degree in Physics or Engineering. Usually you need to go through high school to get to college, which leads to grad school.

You don't need to go through four years of high school to get to college though. If you think you're ready for the big stuff, try skipping a few grades, taking the SATs and getting into MIT. I bet you'll do fine.

I myself had not finished high school. I had dropped out, when i was 16.

In my all infinite wisdom, I felt that I was smart enough, and surely smarter than those that sought to teach me.

I am now 44 years old, and am struggling to find a decent job. I have years of experience in a couple of different fields, but what seems to matter most in resumes is education.

Many many times I wanted to kick myself for my poor decision to quit school when I was younger.

Just some food for thought.

[edit on 2/17/2007 by Mechanic 32]

So it's inside the box thinking that working hard will pay off in the end?

The fact is that it mostly would not pay off in the end. Within a few decades of hard work you might reach a point of 100k a year, but that's it.
By 'being free and being wealthy' I had in mind a bit more then that, as well as being free from working from 9 to 5.

To the business world, it doesn't matter how smart you are or even how capable you are. It's all about that piece of paper.

If you are looking for a job, yes, maybe the paper is important. But if you are opening your own business, no one asks you for one.

I could easily design body armor with my knowledge I have today, that would out perform current models. No problem. I already have design concepts, that if given enough resources, Could become reality.

Then I guess you should learn more in that direction. Maybe show your ideas, concepts, prototypes to those who are manufacturing them right now?

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Hi, i would just like to state that high school is really overkill.
Everthing about it is set up to be a pain is the butt.
studies show that people, especially young people should be sleeping until 11am. most schools start at 8am.

You're not going to liek the world after highschool very much, where you're job might start at 7 and you've got an hour commute, and need time before that to get ready. If hopping onto a school bus for 20 minutes to be there by 8, and out by 3, you're probably going to have problems.

I get C's and B'c, and I am alot smarter then some of the people with higher grades then me.

Doesn't really matter. If you want to go to a good college, you need good grades. Its a simple little game, get good grades, go to a good college, have more oppurtunity. Sure, you could work as, say, a stockbroker, or any number of other good jobs, without going to college. But if you need 8 hours of sleep a day, and can't hand a 7 hour work day (and school is definitly light work), then you won't be able to handle any of those jobs where you'll be working twice as long and several times as hard.

To me, the only work I picture this educational system relating to is some office job in some building, working for some CEO, and " I want those papers on the desk by 5 O'clock on friday..".

You're (not you specifically, just the average person) not going to be working 'for' a ceo, you're going to be working for a mid level manager, the CEO isn't going to be giving you deadlines, your supervisors will. Seriously, if you 'can't be bothered with school because its hard and pointless', how are you going to handle anything else?

High School is easy. It doesn't matter that a person can be successful without being successful in high school. ALso, you ar acting like you are purposely getting low grades, because its 'pointless'. That doesn't make the least bit of sense. If its so pointless, struggling against it is even more pointless.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Well, i'll just come out and say what i'am interested in.

I would like to design military equipment. Design Body armor, aircraft, APC's. I could easily design body armor with my knowledge I have today, that would out perform current models. No problem.

You're not going to be able to get an engineering job without a high school diploma. What are you going to do when you apply for a job and the best you can say is 'i realized early on that high school was bunk, so i didn't bother with it', and meanwhile there are other peopel with advanced degrees in engineering, who have demonstrated that they can handle the workload, and have worked on actual projects?

You say that you shouldn't bother with high school because its 'pointless' and 'meaningless and bunk', problem is most of what you are going to do is meaningless bunk.

I already have design concepts, that if given enough resources, Could become reality.

Lots of people have good ideas. A company knows that a person who's got a demonstrated track record of success at high school, college, even graduate school, is a worthwhile investment. Someone that can't handle the 'stress' of 8th grade isn't going to get much of a chance to 'get the resources'.

I find thinking up new Armor and other military equipment natural.
I can see faults in current designs.
i can visualise every piece of the equipment working in slow motion.
i create in my head physics based on esimated values from my current knowledge.

And so can thousands of other people, but they've been through engineering programs, have real world experience, and have successfully worked on projects.

Basically, When im not doing anything, i start seeing bullets hitting ceramic plates in slow motion, deforming from impact like some matrix movie.

Thats not much of a job school. You might want to start working harder on those basic high school grades.

mechanic32
Many many times I wanted to kick myself for my poor decision to quit school when I was younger

indeed, and who's ever heard of someone saying 'damnit, i really wasted my time and energy by bothering to stay in high school and getting good grades, I WISH i had been an average student darnit!"

bratok
But if you are opening your own business, no one asks you for one.

And who is going to give a kid that can barely handle high school money to start an engineering company from the ground up??? Whats the likelyhood that someone who hasn't learned how to work the high school system is going to be able to simultaneously be successful in starting a business AND doing engineering and design?

By 'being free and being wealthy' I had in mind a bit more then that, as well as being free from working from 9 to 5.

If you are starting a business, you're going to work a helluva lot more than 9-5 in an office. If you're an engineer, you're going to work a helluva lot more than that too. If you're both? You might as well sell your home and live in your office.
Working 9-5 is on the short end of a workday. "Professionals"; lawyers, executives, business owners, researchers, engineers, managers, etc, would normally kill to be able to only work an 8 hour shift. The average person who drops out of high school usually finds themselves working two 8 hour jobs or scrounging for overtime. Not all, but clearly the average.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Hi, i would just like to state that high school is really overkill.

If you feel high school is overkill, wait for a few years of university where they don't spoon feed the students the material.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Everthing about it is set up to be a pain is the butt.

What in life isn't?

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
I really question the need for all this extra "education".

I'll assume that you are in fact a high school student. "Extra" education? The process has been dimmed down to a very dull roar at best. The pace is set to the slowest child in the class and if we fail to grasp a concept, the educators will reiterate over and over. Extra Education? Remove the education, learning process, etc., from our society and in a few generations we will be on the same level as our domesticated animals. In time you'll come to understand that this process is necessary, and more should go into it.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
First, school starts too early. studies show that people, especially young people should be sleeping until 11am. most schools start at 8am.

You are construing the facts. It does not say that children should sleep until 11AM. If you hope to sleep until 11AM on a regular basis, I hope you have a nice job where you can get away with that. A little bit of a catch 22 though. Going to need an education to get a nice job. What the facts do say is that children do need sleep. Not just sleep, a certain level of REM sleep. This is the deepest level of sleep where we begin to restore the energy that we need so bad. When a child is up until 1 or 2 in the morning, they are getting very little REM sleep when they are having to get up at 7 and 8 in the morning. It's not that school should start at 11, it is that they should be going to sleep earlier.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Why should you sleep this long?? well, it helps with concentration and focus, along with memory. All things that we don't need when it comes to school.

Your exactly right. REM sleep is going to enhance our concentration, focus, and memory in the morning. However, it is time to develop some maturity and get the appropriate sleep. Pointing the fingers at the system because we like to watch "Letterman", well that is a little immature. It all comes with time.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
Then, There is things we dont need to learn. becuase The USA is falling behind Europe in education standards, public schools are stepping everything up. how? by requiring more classes to graduate. giving more work, and even less sleep.

So you guys are falling behind on the standards compared to other nations, but your efforts here are to even further the "dulling down" of the process? I fail to see the logic.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
nothing the school systems do is completely thought out.

I disagree.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
the thing that makes me the most mad is how they act like you need to be good at high school to be good in anything else.

This I agree with. High school is based on the premise that, in order to obtain success, one must be "book smart". It is not the case at all. Some schools are changing and offering alternatives where children can graduate high school with a trade. This is the way to go, in my opinion. Not everybody is an A+ student. But this does not insinuate that the process needs to be dulled down.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
I know what i want to do for a job in my life. And i see nothing but hoops to jump through when i look at school. The work I have to do is totally unrelated to what i would like to do.

It gets better. To be honest, just deal with it. It is a minuscule portion of our life. I went through high school with honors, but due to a tragedy close to my family, I almost dropped out. I graduated, but wanted nothing to do with it. I moved onto University to find the same truth. A whole lot of books and discussion about issues I did not give a damn about. None of it pertained to what I wanted to do in life. Then I found a private institute that was directed to everything that I wanted to do in life. Working with young people who are in conflict with the law, have behavioural issues, etc., and attempt to straighten out their life. I went from a University drop out to a 4.0 GPA and President of the student body. It is all about finding something that suits you, and running with it. High school may not serve your needs right now, but you will find something.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
The problem is, i have to do good in all of it if i want to do What i want to do as a job.
I see alot of people drop out, not because they are not smart, but because they just feel that this is not needed, and it isnt needed. but in this day and age its the paper that counts that gets you your job.

You raise some valid points, but do not take a narrow approach. This is much more out there. High school teachers can be naive themselves some time and put more emphasis on it then there is. Grant it, you need your diploma. Without that, it can be a rough road to travel. But whether you are a B+ student or a D- student, there is a very little difference. Most institutes that I've dealt with looked at the individual themselves rather than what a paper said.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
school is nothing more then a filter for success.

The education process is a stepping stone to a better life. Take advantage of it while you can. The day of my high school graduation I realized that I wasted a lot of my time and efforts. Problem is, you never realize it until it's too late. Don't be too shocked if you feel the same way when graduation rolls around.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
There are soo many famous and inteligent people that didnt finish high school. So what makes it worth so much of everyone's time?

Don't take a very small portion of "exceptions" and try to imitate their success. You need to graduate.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
I understand The material we study is meant to give us a taste of different area's of education, but then why is it soo heavily graded?

The system is based on a group design. Your marks are compared to the rest of the class and your intelligence is measured. I do not like this approach, but it is all that we have. If we worked in a single subject design, the success of every student would be measured on their own level. Your intelligence can be measured on your own progress, rather than how you compare to the masses. The system can not possibly afford to employ the staff that would be required for such an approach. Make the best of what we got, and some day you will find your way. It took me thirteen years of grade school and three years of university to find my path. Frustration is normal, just keep the eyes and ears open.

Originally posted by WINGxZERO
To me, the only work I picture this educational system relating to is some office job in some building, working for some CEO, and " I want those papers on the desk by 5 O'clock on friday..". says the manager

or maybe being a.... SCHOOL TEACHER.

A valid opinion. Believe me, I thought the same thing when I was in your position. But in time, and through experience, your path will become clear. Yes their is emphasis on a high school diploma, as you do need it. But once you have it, the sky is the limit to the course of studies or hands-on approach you which to travel.

I wish you all of the best.



[edit on 17-2-2007 by chissler]

highschool does have some reason for it but it does mess up sleep

i only average about 5 hours a night, wake at 5 to 530 an stay at school till 5 cause of sports. then home work till 7 . an then i just dont get to sleep till 11 cause im up doing all kingds of other stuff.

i still make As in school though, dispite the fact i sleep at least 1 hour in school.

but one thing i dont like is the regular,honor,ap, an gifted.
it makes people think there better than other, all the elementary an middle til 8th grade i was in gifted classes, but a bad army move lost my record an i got stuck in regular classes, not to brag but its obvious im smarter than the class, an thatt being the reason i sleep alot, cause i already no alot of the stuff.

but because of that people figure im not real smart, cause i sit around an do nothing most of the day

Originally posted by DalairTheGreat
but one thing i dont like is the regular,honor,ap, an gifted.
it makes people think there better than other, all the elementary an middle til 8th grade i was in gifted classes, but a bad army move lost my record an i got stuck in regular classes

You can take AP tests without being enrolled in AP classes. You should give it consideration. You'd almost certainly have to do some prep work for it though, the test is structured differently than other high school standard tests.

but because of that people figure im not real smart, cause i sit around an do nothing most of the day

If you're getting straight A's, then it doesn't really matter what people are saying. And if you're doing that while participating in a sport, then that goes double.

Here are my opinions:

Today all schools are about is getting the high grades. Thats all the teachers at the schools are bothered about, they always mention A*, A+ blah blah blah all that stuff. And in some classes the teachers are completely crap. They get bullied by the students because they have no control and for the ones in that class that want to learn because, of the grades that are so important today, they cant because the teacher is too busy trying to control the class so nothing is done.

What ive learnt from people about getting good jobs is that its not about your grades, its about who you know.
takes for example Richard Branson, i think i heard somewhere that he has no GCSE's to his name yet he is the owner of a very successful company "Virgin"

So yea i say that today schools are all about grades and if you are stuck some teachers are either just too lazy to come help because they expect everyone to get what he/she is saying or they are too busy getting bullied by the students.

Also i know that some lessons such as Math is needed in engineering because it shows your ability to absorb knowledge, and yes knowledge is power but without wisedom its useless. but why should we have to take some many damn lessons where there is always some stupid test that you have to take even though you didnt even want to do the lesson. Some teachers say that if you not going to learn dont come to school, and even though this doesnt apply to me i think its really stupid because in the UK if we didnt go to school our parents get arrested which i think is completely dumb because some people dont have a good ability to learn and yea there are some that are just lazy but should be have to do something that we really dont want to do?

I think school should only make students do the lessons they want but English Maths Science PE and Humanities (which covers History and Geography) should be set lessons then the student can pick if they want to do anymore lessons because those are the main ones needed for all kinds of jobs.

I cant think of what else i was gonna put so im gonna leave it there.

English Maths Science PE and Humanities (which covers History and Geography) should be set lessons

What is there to pick beyond that? Those are already the required courses. What courses are required beyond that?

Originally posted by Wildbob77
The purpose of high school is just to sort out the people who will succeed in college from those who won't. Personally, I think that there should be far more trade schools for those that know that college is not the route for them.

Well I agree with you here, I just despise the way they go about it, not to mention that my high school only gave scholarships to people who were long standing members of the community.

I was suspended from high school nearly on a weekly basis and was encouraged to drop out. I refused becaus eI knew I need that piece of paper. Anyway, despite my disciplinary problems, I alwasy blew the tests out of the water without even studying. This tended to piss alot of my teachers off.

Anyway, today I have my Associates from college and am working towards my Bachelors. Dont let the school decide your future for you, all you need is that stupid slip of paper and you can tell them to go % themselves afterward.