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F16 (Viper) Question?

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posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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Back in the day when the F16 first rolled out, it was the little speedster that could pull wicked g's, was cheap, fought in and out and so on.

The HOTAS was part of the big news of the day as was the pilt's seat angle.
I cannot remember the angle exactly but it was talked about as being part of the pilot's situational awareness in a dogfight as well as adding to the amount of g's that he/she could take!!

So, did studies ever prove that it helped?
Why is it not in use in the Raptor or F35, Eurofighter, etc...?

Thanks for your help......Mondo




posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Your avatar won't let me...I just keep staring at it.

just a note though:



Hands-On Throttle and Stick (HOTAS)

The F-22 features a side-stick controller (like an F-16) and two throttles that are the aircraft's primary flight controls. The GEC-built stick is located on the right console and there is a swing-out, adjustable arm rest. The stick is force sensitive and has a throw of only about one-quarter of an inch. The throttles are located on the left console. Both the stick and the throttles are high-use controls during air combat. To support pilot functional requirements, the grips include buttons and switches (that are both shape and texture coded) to control more than 60 different time-critical functions. These buttons are used for controlling the offensive (weapons targeting and release) and defensive systems (although some, like chaff and flares, can operate both automatically and manually) as well as display management.


more:

www.globalsecurity.org...

More on Raptor:

www.globalsecurity.org...



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Mondogiwa
The HOTAS was part of the big news of the day as was the pilt's seat angle.
I cannot remember the angle exactly but it was talked about as being part of the pilot's situational awareness in a dogfight as well as adding to the amount of g's that he/she could take!!

So, did studies ever prove that it helped?
Why is it not in use in the Raptor or F35, Eurofighter, etc...?


I assume you are talking about the seat angle, as HOTAS is in common usage everywhere.


Well, A guy from Martin-Baker told me the pilots did not like the angle as it was much harder for them to crank their heads around and see behind them than in a normal seat. So while they could maybe pull a little more in the way of g's, when the baddie was manovering and contact was lost momentarily (like say a scissors engagement), it was harder for the pilot to reaquire visual contact.



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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Yep, what the last guys said is true. Having the seat at 35 degrees tilt definitely helps when taking heavy G's. Many have told me that it is easier to stay focused with the straight up seat due to it being less comfortable.



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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I believe the inclined seat is in use with the eurofighter, it is certainly quoted to be in the Rafael (32*incline). It is proven to work, currently looking as to how - but its not a new theory. I know for a fact that the Nazis (amongst others) in WWII experimented with pilots in the prone position as they could withstand greater G than when seated.



And here's a US example... Northrop XP - 79B

Apparently it wasn't too comfy though.

Lord knows how you'd get an ejection seat to work in that thing.


[edit on 16/2/07 by C ROBERTSON]

[edit on 16/2/07 by C ROBERTSON]



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 05:58 PM
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The Typhoon does not use either the angled seat or the sidestick controller as British and German pilots with F-16 experience, plus others who took part in extensive development trials, all said that it felt unnatural, both to fly and to fight with. Instead the Typhoon uses a more conventional style central HOTAS control and of course the Typhoons specially developed g-suit so that no performance is lost through pilot discomfort in comparison to other types. The sidestick actually became a necessity in the F-16 and similar types once the seat was angled back simply so that the pilot could reach the stick as a central one would have been too far away. This was considered too much of a compromise in the design of the Typhoon, hence the alternative layout chosen.

The prone pilot position was tested in the UK in a specially converted Gloster Meteor around 1950 as part of the research programme into future high performance aircraft and was universally disliked, even looking straight forwards was a chore which gave the pilot a stiff neck. No doubt other countries had similar results which is why we never had a prone pilot fighter developed anywhere.

avia.russian.ee...

[edit on 16-2-2007 by waynos]



posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Mondogiwa,

Actually, unless your eyes are out the top of your canopy, tracking a bandit down /in/ the fight, the F-16 seat is a royal pain because you have to crick your neck to look foward and twist 'up and around' to see past the headrest and particularly for tall people (IIRR), the optical lineup on the HUD is not all that it could be.

Raked seat backs also eat main panel space, destroy any hope for an avionics hell hole and add to the problems inherent to getting the canopy off so that you get out, either in emergency or for maintenance.

Lastly, the F-16 ACES seat is or was uniquely configured for trigger pull thus and not common to the rest of the inventory.

The YF-16 was a wonder in it's time (vs. a 7G MiG-21MF) but that time is long past.

Because of this, 1-2 extra G (which can be bought back with a Firefly suit anyway) isn't worth as much as say another 100 EXCM or a towed array or a standoff weapons edge or an ABR. All of which are standard in fighters with half the RCS values and thus no reason to accept a visual fight at all.


KPl.


P.S. I've actually heard the opposite about G-endurance given that, while the blood may not leave your head as fast, not having your legs pinched in an upright posture costs you some of the 'natural G-Suit' effects during M1 type straining so that your overall sustained endurance is higher at medium G levels. Saves on high-G hickeys (petechiasis, sp.) but short of massive instantaneous loading doesn't give enough of an overall edge to be worth the improved head:heart angle 'slope'. Fighters pitch so fast these days that GLC is a given if you superman the stick hard enough, fast enough to be worthwhile. Coupled to weapons system stability issues and HOBS options, this tends to make the bat turn move a last best /defense/ option rather than one of everyday offensive utility.

As goes the intercept, so goes the fight...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 12:03 AM
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Thanks to you all for the replies.
Yeah, I knew about HOTAS being commonplace but was actually asking about the seat angle more, and hence you have all answered me quite nicley.
It's nice to be around this forum...I consider myself one who knows quite a bit about military aviation but I know that all I need to do is post a question and you guys/gals always come through for me.

Cheers to you all again, thanks, Mondo



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