Extraterrestrial UFO's Do Not Exist

Originally posted by MooneyBravo
I must also add that the burden of proof lies not with skeptics, but with those who make the claims. After all, extraterrestrials are not a common element of our society. Few people, if any, have ever actually seen one.

That's reasonable to state. Which is fine by me. However, many people on the planet use this tenet selectively, rather than universally.

For example: Many people believe in God and Jesus' Resurrection. They make the extraordinary claim that the will of God created us and that Jesus rose from the dead. Where is the proof? Making outlandish statements like that require proof. These claims that God and Jesus exist are akin to claiming that there is a divine, magical force controlling us.

However, claims that UFOs and extraterrestrials are real, by comparison, are not outlandish at all. They're probably just another race of living beings that managed to master the technology to travel here. Nothing divine, nothing magical - just ordinary space travel and some clever physics.

You can't apply the "show the evidence" principal unless you apply it equally. Christians who don't believe in UFOs or ET are a perfect example of people who accept claims about God WITHOUT PROOF, but are willing to dismiss claims for UFOs without proof. Double standards.

I've yet to see any religious person prove that God did make the Universe or that Jesus did rise from the dead. Other than some unverifiable eyewitness testimony that has been transcribed from antiquity, the case for the affirmative is weak, very weak.

In contrast, there are extremely well documented UFO events that are much more convincing than the case for God making us all.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - I do agree with that. Let's apply it universally, rather than selectively.

I've been interested in this UFO phenomenon for around 40 years now. That's a long time.

In all that time, I have not experienced anything, and nobody has shown me anything, that proves to me beyond a doubt that any kind of extraterrestrial or ultraterrestrial exists and that they use UFOs to visit Earth.

On the other hand, logically, it's impossible to prove a negative. After all this time with no unimpeachable proof, it would be easy for me to dismiss it all. But tomorrow a flying saucer with ET aliens could come literally out of nowhere and land next to the Washington Monument and I'll be proven completely wrong.

Of course, it won't kill be to be wrong. I've been wrong plenty of times during the course of my life, and it hasn't proven fatal yet.

Still, I prefer to keep my options (and a bit of my mind) open, just on the off-chance that the Universe is chock full of shy aliens who simply haven't gotten around to giving us a nice, big public "howdy" yet.

ET aliens are possible, but not proven.

It is true that there is lack of proof as we usually consider it, like something that we can replicate in a lab or visit in a museum. But, if you read any of the books on the abduction phenomenom, like the ones by Dr. John Mack, you would see that there is something going on that is bigger than us, and that their (the aliens') agenda is without regard to our understanding. THey don't care if we believe in them, they simply do their job and go somewhere else. It is remarkable to me that there IS so much evidence, and people still need proof. Well, read some books. Don't wait for the governement to tell us the truth because the aliens don't care about our governments. THey don't need to ask permission, and they know that we are so primitive in comparison that we can do nothing to stop them. So the conspiracy theories that suggest that our government is working with the aliens is ridiculous, and to wait for them to land on the White House lawn and say hello is foolish. Now, it is true that there is A LOT of bull# out there regarding this subject, and we need to keep a certain level of reasonable skepticism, mostly to stay sane. THe wackos are out there dreaming up all kinds of distractions. But to just dismiss the whole phenomenon as hoax because of some assholes with cameras is not exactly reasonable. We should question everything we read, everything we see, and everything we hear. And then, we should wade through the piles of "evidence" and dismiss the junk that is so obviously hokey or incredibly far-fetched, and look then at the things that make sense. Then we should make up our minds. If we either believe everything, or dismiss it all, we are locking ourselves out of something that is larger than all of us, something more profound than any religious literature, and more amazing than any sci-fi creation.
[email protected] re:UFO thoughts

Originally posted by TheMayor
Now, it is true that there is A LOT of bull# out there regarding this subject, and we need to keep a certain level of reasonable skepticism, mostly to stay sane.

Originally posted by TheMayorTHe wackos are out there dreaming up all kinds of distractions. But to just dismiss the whole phenomenon as hoax because of some assholes with cameras is not exactly reasonable.

Watch yourself TheMayor. The mods will revoke your membership for that kind of language. PLease review the terms and conditions.

Terms & Conditions of Membership

[edit on 16-2-2007 by MooneyBravo]

Heres my take on the whole ET thing -

I can't confirm wether all the ET hype is true or not - nobody really can, unless you've really had an actual experience with one.

But the way i see it - there are some remarkable things represented through history that I have a hard time with.

For instance - the Great Pyramids at Giza. We still, with all of our LCD Screens and micro electronic circutry cannot replicate this. The Japanese tried it and failed. I tend to think there was ET influence involved with the Ancient Egyptians. It's really the only explanation (to me) that makes sense.

The advent of the transistor. This was a PHENOMINAL leap in technology. Was it chance, the scientific method, or ET influence? We can't know for certain, but this is what we call a paradigm shift. And the transistor was a MAJOR one...I like to think it was something we gleaned off of ET tech (possibly roswell or another crash?)

The Germans were very advanced compared to the rest of the world. There were documented "UFO" crashes in germany years before their rise. Alot of their brilliance and technology was world changing (the Manhattan project had a plethora of german scientists.)

Am I attributing all of the technological advances to ET's ? No, because I can't prove it. But I also can't say that its possible that ET's didn't have a hand (in one or way or another, intentionally or un-intentionally). This dualality is what makes me keep searching for UFO's and ET's.
For me its hard to believe our current progressivness in technology is by our own hand alone.

Thats what makes me search. It's what drives me to find a definitive answer. And I guess its because of the constant searching, that I'll really never believe that there aren't ET's, because - if space was empty, it'd be a great waste of space.

Wow, thats an extraordinary amount of mis id's
So, just as skeptics and "debunker's" demand evidence to our claims, how about you let the board know where you came up with that figure.
I dont even think the Govts figures for unidentified aircraft are that high.

Originally posted by TheShadow
I agree and disagree!
In fact more than likely about 99.99999% of supposed UFOs are mis-identified Earthly phenomenon.

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Wow, thats an extraordinary amount of mis id's

So, just as skeptics and "debunker's" demand evidence to our claims, how about you let the board know where you came up with that figure.
I dont even think the Govts figures for unidentified aircraft are that high.

Originally posted by TheShadow
I agree and disagree!
In fact more than likely about 99.99999% of supposed UFOs are mis-identified Earthly phenomenon.

My bad!! Allow me to re-phrase. IMO 99.99999% of UFO sightings are mis-identified Earthly objects or meteors......and please allow me to explain why i say this. It seems that everytime someone sees an airplane fly over head or a balloon in the air they say its a UFO. Now don't get me wrong...i do not think we are alone in the universe nor do i belive we have never been visited by advanced civilizations (in fact i am almost certain we are being observed) but i do not believe there are thousands of alien craft flying around our planet at any given time. My personal belief is that we are being observed as we are at a crucial (and interesting) time in our develpment, but it is on a much smaller scale than the UFO/ conspiracy communities would like to have us believe.

Another young scientist. Give the young buck some years, and think about his upcoming death. No proof right.... so no GOD, nada, nothing.... Just his faith, and beleave me, he will beleave.

Yea uh, may i ask what you're talking about? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, its just that your post was a little vague

Originally posted by lyingunderoath
Another young scientist. Give the young buck some years, and think about his upcoming death. No proof right.... so no GOD, nada, nothing.... Just his faith, and beleave me, he will beleave.

If people have a problem with the credibility or personalities of UFO writers
or the people that run UFO organisations, why don't they start writing books or starting websites themselves?
It's usually the books/websites run by fence sitters that are the most interesting
anway and more balanced.IMO

Originally posted by MooneyBravo
I am merely stating my conclusion to this phenomenon. I am, however, still open to any “real” evidence that may come my way. I want to see one. I want to believe.

Well, then, you're not really reaching a "conclusion," are you? Good. There's no hurry or need for anyone to go around reaching conclusions at this point. No reason to be impatient.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

Well, then, you're not really reaching a "conclusion," are you? Good. There's no hurry or need for anyone to go around reaching conclusions at this point. No reason to be impatient.

SuicideVirus,

Yes I have reached a conclusion. That conclusion is based on all of my experiences up to this point and the "evidence" put forth by others. All I am saying in that quote of mine that you posted is that I am willing to keep an open mind enough to accept new "evidence" when it arrives. But because of the amount of hoaxes being turned out day after day I have risen the bar for any new evidence.

Originally posted by MooneyBravo

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

Well, then, you're not really reaching a "conclusion," are you? Good. There's no hurry or need for anyone to go around reaching conclusions at this point. No reason to be impatient.

SuicideVirus,

Yes I have reached a conclusion. That conclusion is based on all of my experiences up to this point and the "evidence" put forth by others. All I am saying in that quote of mine that you posted is that I am willing to keep an open mind enough to accept new "evidence" when it arrives. But because of the amount of hoaxes being turned out day after day I have risen the bar for any new evidence.

Hey, after 40 years of interest in UFOs, and still not having been presented with any conclusive evidence of ET UFOs, I know the feeling. Maybe it would be easier to understand if I ever personally saw real-life aliens, or even a UFO that was so obviously not man-made it would erase all doubt from my mind. Seeing is believing, or rather, knowing. But I haven't seen anything like that, and every single bit of the evidence I've looked at over the past four decades has fallen sadly short of proof I can truly take to heart. Every one.

But after all these years, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what I don't know, which is an awful lot. No single individual piece of evidence has convinced me that ETs or their UFOs exist in any way I understand, but the sheer bulk of information and sightings and photos of something (?) tends to lead me to think something extraordinary is indeed happening, even if I don't know exactly what. So I'm willing to hang around, on the off chance that I've missed something important.

Overall, though, I think that if such undeniable proof ever shows up, it won't be tucked away on some obscure UFO board. I won't miss it. It'll be on the front page of every newspaper and magazine and on all the news channels 24 hours a day for months and years, because I've set my own bar so high that the kind of proof that will convince me will be so good it will end up convincing everybody.

(Except maybe the die-hard conspiracy kooks who will say that the "aliens" that landed on the White House lawn are just a hoax and a ploy by the government to manipulate us. There will always be those types.)

I've been lurking on this site for about three weeks now and the only thing I have to say is that there are a lot of disillusioned people that need to move out of their parents basement. Honestly, do you people belive there are reptile-like homenids ruling the earth below the surface. Rich people like to hang-out with rich people. AND when offered emperical evedience on a supposed U.F.O.(unidentified flying object),which usually turns out to be a plane eveyone turns on the guy that works at an airport and flame the poor guy (for people that have not been in a foum enviroment, Flame= To condescend or unjustly chastise another poster). On top of that it seems no one on this site can either puctuate nor moderate. Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me down kids.

P.S.: The Criptid section is going to stay in my bookmarks. That # is the best entertainmet since Lost.

P.P.S.: I just saw the word # was edited out of my post. Isn't that an infringement of speech?

[edit on 17-2-2007 by Dr. Benway]

[edit on 17-2-2007 by Dr. Benway]

[edit on 17-2-2007 by Dr. Benway]

Originally posted by MooneyBravo
I used to believe wholeheartedly in the existence of extraterrestrial beings visiting our world. I grew up watching shows like In Search Of, Unsolved Mysteries, and Sightings; all of which stoked my interest and help to cast my views. But over the past few years, my perception of UFO’s has been vacillating between belief and non-belief....

Don't believe or disbelieve. This concept of "belief" can be the loadstone that drags down understanding. My method is to gather as much information as possible to be as well informed as can be. So the belief system just holds me back therefore,I don't go there.

Nice post btw.

Dr Benway,
Thanks for your condescending remarks. I am 30 years old, married with children, college educated, own a house and a small business. You would be surprised at how many regular folks are interested/involved in this phenomenon. The let down is your own, for being "too smart to believe".

In all the years of sightings, footage, testimonies and everything else under the ufo umbrella, i find it hard to believe that we have nothing to show for it.
Not one piece of material off a craft, we haven't (and lets be truthful here)
looked at one piece of video of a supposed ufo and KNEW that what you are
looking at is the real mcoy.

In all the years ufos have meant to have been coming here, its strange that they haven't left anything behind. No ones perfect.

In any other line of work, people would have given up on them a long time ago.

Originally posted by lyingunderoath
Another young scientist. Give the young buck some years, and think about his upcoming death. No proof right.... so no GOD, nada, nothing.... Just his faith, and beleave me, he will beleave.

Don't bet on it. I'm no spring chicken, and rapidly approaching my own death. Time is accelerating for me. A year goes by like nothing these days. I've already come pretty close to death on a couple of occasions.

I still have seen no convincing evidence that there is any kind of active entity that fits the general description of "God," (I haven't even found anyone who could accurately define it) or any indication of an afterlife of any sort. Just a lot of tall tales and ghost stories.

I expect that as I die, I'll simply wonder at the incredible blind pointlessness of it all. After that, nothing.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
In all the years of sightings, footage, testimonies and everything else under the ufo umbrella, i find it hard to believe that we have nothing to show for it.

Not one piece of material off a craft, we haven't (and lets be truthful here)
looked at one piece of video of a supposed ufo and KNEW that what you are looking at is the real mcoy.

Yeah, it's discouraging. But is 50-60 years really that long a time to look for something? Especially when we're not quite sure what we're looking for? Hey, people have been waiting for Jesus to return for the last 2000 years. They have a few vague reports, some unverifiable artifacts, no video or photos. And they still hang on. Surely, we can wait as long as those people for some better evidence.

In all the years ufos have meant to have been coming here, its strange that they haven't left anything behind. No one's perfect.

The only way you can be absolutely sure you've properly covered your tracks is to be able to move through time in ways we don't understand. Say you're a UFO pilot who loses your warp-drive screwdriver behind on a mission, and somebody finds it, and it ends up all over the news. If you're from the future, or able to access it in some way, that becomes history for you. All you need to do is read where and when the screwdriver was found, zoom back, pick up the screwdriver, and boom... problem solved. It never happened.

You can be perfect if you have infinite time in which to correct your mistakes.

Hey, somebody write that down.


[edit on 17-2-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by Dr. Benway
On top of that it seems no one on this site can either puctuate nor moderate.

When you wish to be critical of how people type, then please make sure that your own post is error free.

You have many grammatical errors, along with punctuation errors in your post.

You missed an apostrophy in the word 'parents'. You did not leave spaces after some commas. You also left out some commas when they were needed. Some of your tenses are also incorrect.

No, I am not the Grammar Police - my writing is way off at times. I am far from a perfect writer. I just find it a hypocritical statement for someone to complain about punctuation, when they can't get it right themselves.