It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

F-14 Radar and Targetting superior to F-15?

page: 2
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:49 PM
link   
Who says the Tomcat's radar is obsolete?


The AWG-9 radar fitted to the original F-14 models and the improved APG-71 that equips the F-14D are both quoted as having the ability to detect, track, and attack targets at ranges exceeding 100 nm (205 km). Though it was designed in the 1960s, the AWG-9 has been progressively updated with new software and remains a highly effective system. This radar gives the Tomcat the ability to track up to 24 targets and attack any six of them simultaneously in any weather condition. The AWG-9 is also able to detect small vehicles operating at low altitudes, such as cruise missiles.


www.aerospaceweb.org...




posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 02:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Come on man! You really think if they had kept the Tomcat they wouldn't have looked at improving the AIM-54 any?


I think the Aim-54 was a weapon for the cold war, it doesn't have alot of use in the post-cold-war era. Nevertheless, it was more effective against fighters than most people suspect.

Here's something from the Aim-54 page on wikipedia.


It is estimated that during the Iran-Iraq war 1980-1988, from reports from pilots on both sides, guncamera/TISEO films, examination of wreckage, local and foreign intelligence and other sources, that on total the IRIAF F-14As scored 130 confirmed and 23 probable aerial victories. Iran launched possibly 70 to 90 AIM-54A missiles, and 60-70 of those scored.[citation needed]

All in all, almost 90% of the AIM-54A missiles fired by Iranian F-14s in combat were used against Iraqi fighters and fighter-bombers. Only about a dozen victories by AIM-54s were against fast, high-flying targets like MiG-25s or Tu-22s. This performance was surprising, especially as the missile was designed for fleet defence, against large targets, not nimble fighters.

Iranian F-14 pilot, Major Ali, made the following conclusion from the Iranian use of F-14s and Phoenix missiles:

"When I look back at our service record with the jet I look beyond its exceptional performance as purely an interceptor. We used it to escort fighters and tankers and flew many radar-reconnaissance missions as mini-AWACS for the protection of others in the air and on the ground. No air defence system has even proven so effective."

Iranian F-14 pilots also regularly engaged enemy forces in traditional dogfights, using their cannon and Sidewinder missiles to good effect.


It's possible the hit rate is higher than we think.

I had also come across this article which some of you may enjoy.

www.military.com...




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 10:03 PM
link   
Any new thoughts on this?

Thanks.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:00 PM
link   
SteveR,
I have to say that the F-14 equipped for stand off fight i.e. full load four Phoenix, two sparrow and two side winders is going to be more than a match for an F-15 even at close in.

I may not know much about anything, but the F-14 is a love story with me.

I am old enough to remember the pressure placed upon the USAF to take the F-15 over the F-14, even though they ran a 'not a pound for the ground' campaign, they then stated the F-14 couldn't be armed for ground attack missions (after saying it wasn't an issue!)

The F-15 won the day because of politics, and in my mind the Navy got the best aircraft ever to fly off a carrier in fleet defense role.

A true interceptor, far more worthy of its crown than an F-15.

Here, an iranian F-14 to drool over and a blast from the past about iranian F-14s and the 1988 downing of a civvie airliner and the role an iranian F-14 may have had in this.



Newspaper link


Not great input but a blast from the past for me - I was well miffed that the USAF was placing F-15s in the UK and not the F-14 I had been dreaming about.



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:06 PM
link   
The F-14D has better acceleration, High-Alpha flight handling (including far higher Alpha limits of +90 degrees and -50 degrees), slow-speed handling, better sustained and instantaneous turn rates, lower wing-loading, far better lift-to-drag ratio, nearly the same thrust-to-weight ratio, very nearly the same structural G-limits (-3G's, +8.5G's or better), and it's probably just as agile, if not a little better due to its GEC-Marconi-designed digital Fly-By-Wire flight control system. And on top of all that, it's got an extremely long-range Infrared Search And Track System that can even be used to guide intercepts with the Phoenix missile out to 100+nm. And best of all, it has a second crewmember.

from a now dead web page I had saved on an external hard drive. From an F15 ground crew member no less if my memory serves me right.

(can you tell I used to be an F-14 fan ?)



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Dan Tanna
 


Thanks Dan, great post. I guess politics, money, and a desire to have a plane that can "dogfight" played a major role in the choice. The F-15 is a good airframe and adaptable, but it is most certainly not the crème de la crème warbird the F-14 was.

Another drool worthy pic.




posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:22 PM
link   



The Turkey could sure as hell move mud... had it had the money poured into it the F-15 E strike eagle had, it would be an arse kicker extrordinaire even today.

Faster, more agile, longer reach, more stable at both low and high speed due to variable geometry wing... Dammit I loved that plane!



posted on Jun, 4 2008 @ 11:34 PM
link   
When i saw those f14s fight off those su27 in topgun i was impressed.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:17 AM
link   
WVR... gimme F-15 any day.

F-4E could out maneuver a F-14 down low.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by C0bzz]



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:29 AM
link   
An F4-E down low out fly a F-14 ?

Hot dammit thats blasphemy !

The slatted F-4E was good, a great like the F-14 ? not in the same time zone let alone ball park.

Yes i will say the F-4E was a vast improvement over the others before it, but a 14 eater ? no way.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 12:59 AM
link   
Thought you all would like to read this:

www.aerospaceweb.org...



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 01:15 AM
link   
Great read SteveR


The A-12 fiasco makes me so F#'#*#*
angry its unbelievable. Thats prissy crock of crud was a money pit, a waste of time and the advanced F-14 could of used the billions wasted and carried the Tomcat way into 2020 time scale.

I saved that link to favorites as it shows just what an amazing aircraft an already legendary aircraft could of become.

Great thread SteveR, flagged and all.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 01:47 AM
link   
Edit: Sorry, off topic.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by seawolf197]



posted on Mar, 4 2010 @ 07:37 PM
link   
I'm posting in regards to a comment someone made about the F-14D missing an Iraqi MiG-25. This is one of those cases where they do not know exactly what happened because it was out of range. When the F-14 fired its AiM-54, the MiG was near the missiles max range, the MiG turned around and just went into burner. I also heard that the MiG crashed upon landing so its possible that it was hit then managed to make it back to base. The F-14Ds kept having problems with their nav equipment on that cruise and we lost four of them.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 06:20 PM
link   
The tomcat would still be going another 10-15 years if they had spent the money on the tomcat 21 rather than the crappy super hornets. IIRC they were going to reduce the radar cross section. Put newer engines in it. Upgrade the avionics. And the tomcat was actually cleared for aim-120 use.



posted on Mar, 12 2010 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Luke.S
 

Yes, Luke -
in that form it would have kicked major assage...




posted on Mar, 15 2010 @ 12:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by Luke.S
The tomcat would still be going another 10-15 years if they had spent the money on the tomcat 21 rather than the crappy super hornets. IIRC they were going to reduce the radar cross section. Put newer engines in it. Upgrade the avionics. And the tomcat was actually cleared for aim-120 use.


The A-6F would have made a better bombtruck than the Superbug. Even the A-6Es were in the middle of a rewing program when that project was stopped. Some of them went straight to AMARC, after getting their new wings.



posted on Mar, 15 2010 @ 12:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
SteveR,
I have to say that the F-14 equipped for stand off fight i.e. full load four Phoenix, two sparrow and two side winders is going to be more than a match for an F-15 even at close in.

I may not know much about anything, but the F-14 is a love story with me.

I am old enough to remember the pressure placed upon the USAF to take the F-15 over the F-14, even though they ran a 'not a pound for the ground' campaign, they then stated the F-14 couldn't be armed for ground attack missions (after saying it wasn't an issue!)

The F-15 won the day because of politics, and in my mind the Navy got the best aircraft ever to fly off a carrier in fleet defense role.

A true interceptor, far more worthy of its crown than an F-15.

Here, an iranian F-14 to drool over and a blast from the past about iranian F-14s and the 1988 downing of a civvie airliner and the role an iranian F-14 may have had in this.


Not great input but a blast from the past for me - I was well miffed that the USAF was placing F-15s in the UK and not the F-14 I had been dreaming about.



F-15 and F-14, were two different kinds of aircraft with similar, but different missions. There was never an competition between the F-14 and F-15 for the USAF.

F-14 was more of a fleet defense aircraft, and would be the first line of defense against Soviet Bombers. The AIM-54 "Phoenix" was designed to knock down bombers, not fighters. It was heavy and underpowered though, it having a TF-30 engine was a big mistake that was never truly rectified.

F-15 was meant to be a fighter, and designed at the time to outfight and outfly the best the Soviet and Eastern block aircraft, the MiG-21 and MiG-23.
It came with better engines, and had a much better T/W ratio than the F-14.
It had a basic A/G capability, even in the F-15A. It did not have a swing/wing weight adding mechanism, tailhook, and the extra weight needed for carrier ops, like the F-14 did.

I am not knocking the F-14, it was good at what it did. But to say it would have been a better choice for the USAF, and other countries, than the F-15, well that quite debatable, and history would show otherwise. F-15 has quite a good air to air record.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
SteveR,
I have to say that the F-14 equipped for stand off fight i.e. full load four Phoenix, two sparrow and two side winders is going to be more than a match for an F-15 even at close in.

I may not know much about anything, but the F-14 is a love story with me.

I am old enough to remember the pressure placed upon the USAF to take the F-15 over the F-14, even though they ran a 'not a pound for the ground' campaign, they then stated the F-14 couldn't be armed for ground attack missions (after saying it wasn't an issue!)

The F-15 won the day because of politics, and in my mind the Navy got the best aircraft ever to fly off a carrier in fleet defense role.

A true interceptor, far more worthy of its crown than an F-15.

Here, an iranian F-14 to drool over and a blast from the past about iranian F-14s and the 1988 downing of a civvie airliner and the role an iranian F-14 may have had in this.


Not great input but a blast from the past for me - I was well miffed that the USAF was placing F-15s in the UK and not the F-14 I had been dreaming about.



F-15 and F-14, were two different kinds of aircraft with similar, but different missions. There was never an competition between the F-14 and F-15 for the USAF.

F-14 was more of a fleet defense aircraft, and would be the first line of defense against Soviet Bombers. The AIM-54 "Phoenix" was designed to knock down bombers, not fighters. It was heavy and underpowered though, it having a TF-30 engine was a big mistake that was never truly rectified.

F-15 was meant to be a fighter, and designed at the time to outfight and outfly the best the Soviet and Eastern block aircraft, the MiG-21 and MiG-23.
It came with better engines, and had a much better T/W ratio than the F-14.
It had a basic A/G capability, even in the F-15A. It did not have a swing/wing weight adding mechanism, tailhook, and the extra weight needed for carrier ops, like the F-14 did.

I am not knocking the F-14, it was good at what it did. But to say it would have been a better choice for the USAF, and other countries, than the F-15, well that quite debatable, and history would show otherwise. F-15 has quite a good air to air record.



think about it though if the cold war had gone hot the tomcats would have come into their own. iirc there was even a report of one Aim-54 downing two fighters in one go. In (i think) operation iraqi freedom tomcats were basically flying all the time. They were a crucial aspect in destroying enemy targets. They had the range to get from the middle of the sea to very far in land and then back out. And that was on airframes as old as 25-30. Think about it. If the Tomcat was still going today and there were new cats being built the reliability issues would be few and far between due to them being new equipment. As well as that Navy planes have less of a life span the airforce jets due to the extremely high demand on the airframes. On the tomcats everything had to be bigger and bulkier to meet the demands of day to day carrier operations. Hell some tomcats are even flying. Those Iranians are flying 30 year old airframes and they are still flying. And those are the original A model which was the most challenged model. If they had gone with decent engines in the first place and hadn't wasted so much money on the A12 project it is highly likely the Tomcats would still be flying and if the cold war had gone hot I imagine the Tomcats would have a higher K/D ratio than the F-15 as the would likely have been the ones which were far better equipped the handle advanced targets. They are also the only fighter to ever carry the Aim-54 which if I am correct has the longest range of any fighter based missile iirc and a tomcat once locked onto another jet at a range of 150 miles.

I don't deny the F-15 is a good jet hell look at the K/D ratio but the F-14 is a lovable film star.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:37 PM
link   
oh and sorry for double post but I ran out of space. If I recall the F-15 has such a good A2A ratio because it usually goes up against much less advanced fighters such as the Mig 21 etc...



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join