Originally posted by infovacume
Ok some ouf you talk like you read the bible non stop, in other words you know your stuff. But then you have no concept what it is saying...

That's because they don't know of the Gnostic and Kabbalah interpretations.

Originally posted by jezebel
Hmmm, now there's a thought. Hell is Nothing. Since nothing cannot exist as anything, maybe when those who have not found their spiritual connection die, they simply become nothing, or hell. Also, since God is infinite, the only thing outside of God is nothing, so if hell is a place apart from God, we again are led to the conclusion that hell is nothing, or non-existance.

What kind of punishment is non-existence though? I don't believe in a literal Hell mind you; but all suffering would cease, if one ceased to exist would it not?

If you weren't conscious of existing or didn't exist at all; that would be better than all of the suffering that most beings go through in this physical existence.




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It's possible that those who believe in Hell will end up in one, not because it exists, but simply because they created it with their own minds, thus, upon death looking for it. We all judge ourselves to the point of condemnation. The Mind is a Powerful Thing.

Originally posted by Tamahu

What kind of punishment is non-existence though? I don't believe in a literal Hell mind you; but all suffering would cease, if one ceased to exist would it not?

If you weren't conscious of existing or didn't exist at all; that would be better than all of the suffering that most beings go through in this physical existence.

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I don't believe there is a place of endless suffering, like Christians and Catholics imagine it. How could we do anything in our insignificant, flash-in-the-pan lifespans, no matter how major it may seem to us, that would warrant ETERNAL suffering with no chance of redemption?

The rest is not to you, Tamahu, it's just about the subject in general
ETERNITY is FOREVER and EVER!! I don't think our minds can even grasp the concept of forever, yet people accept the notion of a God who condemns people to a state of endless pain for something as irrelevant as disbelief, without question. God doesn't need our belief to exist or to be God, yet the price for not giving It our belief is hell? That means my Grandfather, who did anything for anybody while he was alive, but did not accept God, is suffering in unimaginable torment right this instant. If that is what God is about, he can damn me as well, because if I believed that God was that much of an asshole, nothing could make me worship It.

Fortunately, I feel like I have a pretty strong spiritual connection and God is not a vindictive personality that feels the need to punish us past this lifetime. If we are not able to release our grasp on this world when we die, I think we are left in a limbo-like state until we "get it" and can rejoin the "Whole". Otherwise, our bodies die and our souls return to the source, irregardless of the mistakes and wrongs done by our bodies while alive.

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by jezebel]

If hell exists what crime committed can be so bad that the perpetrator is bound there for all eternity. Even the very worst sins and actions committed by us here on earth must surely have there atonement point where we have paid for it and learnt our lesson.

Exactly. There is absolutely nothing you can do that would make you deserving of ETERNAL punishment. I don't care if you drink milkshakes made out of human babies... you should suffer for a very, very long time... not FOREVER.

The only person/thing I believe would deserve to go to "hell" is whoever/whatever created it. You have to be pure evil to create a "hell" for people who don't believe in your presence.

God is supposed to be all that is good. The devil is supposed to be all that is evil. Or whatever...

God is all-knowing and all-seeing. God created Lucifer/Satan/Devil with full knowledge of what he would turn out to be. God is therefore responsible for all evil in the world. And don't give me that 'free will' crap... that would have to be the second most evil thing ever created, next to hell, of course.

If Jesus really did have some sort of 'message'... it's been lost for ages. Forget the bible guys... even if it was at some point valid... it's been corrupted by the hands of man.

I'm not biblical scholar, but I do believe in God. From what I've read here, and other places. Hell is just a place without God, for people who don't want to be with God. The reason it's depicted as dark and unhappy is because God is all that is Happy, and good. You make the choice to be with God, or without God. My opinion though..is that Hell is extremely hard to get to. I'd like to think that hardly anybody is there. People are right. It's just too contradictory to the rest of the bible. Maybe it's people that believe in God but HATE HATE HATE him. People that don't know of God don't go to hell, because they never made the choice not to be with him. Do you get it? You choose to be with God, or not be with God.