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Originally posted by maynardsthirdeye
For millions of Christians, Hell is okay. Christians praise God the Father every Sunday morning for his love and mercy, all the while convinced that punishing unbelievers in Hell is completely ethical and morally sound. For them there is no human holocaust, nothing unfair about it. It is a deserved consequence meted out by a good and just God.
God, they say, must punish sin. People sin and they deserve to be punished, apparently in the worst way possible. We must be punished as a parent punishes his child. But there is a limit. We can't set children on fire because we know that it is inhumane. It is no longer about the punishment but the ethical treatment of a human being. Unethical treatment is not okay for a Supreme Being. Actively punishing people in the fire of Hell is terrible abuse.
But some Christians use the passive punishment argument to justify Hell. God warns us about Hell so when he go there, it is our fault not his. But is it really? Those with children should leave the stove on for a day and see how you feel when your child gets burned.
Keep your stove on and let some children play with toys. Warn them not to touch the stove. When they burn themselves, use the Christian argument and tell the parents it is not your fault. I wonder what they would say. Their injuries are your fault. You turned on the stove just like God created Hell. He is solely responsible for its attributes, and what it does to people.
And the eternity of Hell rids God of his "Divine Mercy." And there is no remedial value to Hell. Its only purpose is to inflict pain. The punishment of Hell is merely sadistic.
I wonder why is it that the Nazis are condemned, while the Christian God is praised, when he treats people infinitely worse. Both committed ethical violations but it should be different for a Supreme Being.
[Edited on 18-12-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]
Originally posted by Valhall
I have discussed my views on hell many times before on this board. I do not buy into the "eternal fire" of hell for non-believers. But I do believe they are subject to an eternity in a place that there is no God-presence; a place of utter darkness and lack of any goodness whatsoever. And as I have stated before, I believe this to be the scariest thing I can imagine.
on anyone but the decider is a cop-out.
Originally posted by Valhall
No. I absolutely don't agree with your quote.
It would be equivalent to (if we diminunize it down to a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship) the boyfriend saying "Okay, you have the right to decide to love me or not love me, but if you decide not to, you will absolutely not have my presence or love in your life."
To say that God "created the darkness" is a twist. Look at it this way: If you choose to not be at a function because of the ill feelings of the attendees toward you, your presence will not be known or felt there. Any sensation of loss by the attendees cannot be blamed on you...especially if you gave them forewarning that you wouldn't attend if the they continued to have the ill-feelings toward you. The lack of your presence is due to you not being there, not because you imparted some lack upon the party. It is a result, not a direct action.
Originally posted by JuanBond
If you look into the original concepts of hell, there are few instances of punishment. Punishment was usually reserved for those of a most "bastardly" nature.
Hell was mainly like here on Earth, do what thou wilt, etc, only you were cut off from "divinity" or eternal happiness. And, yes as Valhall pointed out, this is far scarier to many that belive in such things than hellfire. Trust me, I was one of them.
I belive the punishments only came into play mainly during the Middle ages, when churches sought to expand their powers through the accumulation of followers.
Originally posted by infovacume
Ok some ouf you talk like you read the bible non stop, in other words you know your stuff. But then you have no concept what it is saying, whatever hell is, God did not send you there. Nor did he create it , you have a choice, you can enter 1 of 2 doors . One has the devil , and the other has God. You choose which door you go into. And then from there on the person in there treats you like he wants. It even says that God will not send you to hell , you will go on your own behalf.