2000 year old stone carving of the 10 commandments in New Mexico?

I dont know how you did because you still did not address the claims made by some that paleo-hebrew was not discovered until around 100 years ago

It isn't Palaeo Hebrew
its phoenecian
didn't you understand the image you posted yourself ?

Phoenecian was known about a long time before the 1880s

let me list the points again

1. Mormons knew Phoenecian and used it as a holy script
2. It is the mormon ten commandments that is written on the stone and no other
3. Mormons were known to be in the area since the 1840s


most importantly you would think that the Mormons would hold this up as proof that their faith is the correct one if they had nothing to do with it
their silence is very telling. Bit like the catholics reaction to the shroud of Turin eh

los lunas first and then genuine Phoenecian underneath
they are exactly the same script with minor variances that only a native speaker would notice at all. Palaeo Hebrew is just another way of saying Old Hebrew or archaic hebrew. the difference of glyph shapes between Phoenician and palaeo-Hebrew is vastly less than that between Phoenician and Latin.




The Los Lunas Decalogue not only as Byrd already pointed out is not dark enough to be more than 200 years old but the hand it is drawn in is that of a student and not a native speaker

fyi an open mind is a good thing as long as its not so open that your brain slips out and ends up a soggy mess on the floor


Win 52
i think its safe to say that the link you provided is a load of rubbish
not only because the Hopi have no such belief
but because on another page at the very same website they are claiming thats a cherokee prophecy

Hopi - www.crystalinks.com...
Cherokee - www.crystalinks.com... (halfway down the page)

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Marduk]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Marduk]

Man.....that bit about coveting your neighbours wives made me spew coffee all over my screen. Nice to have a yuck yuck...thanks.

I have read most of the native North Americain prophesy. It seems like they have started to pick up speed since the white Buffalo have been showing up........picking up brains and putting them back in my head..... they tend to fall out when my eyes pop out

didn't you understand the image you posted yourself ?

Marduk I have a hard enough time with English let alone any other modern language.

From what I understand the Phoenician alphabet is a Semitic language whose origins goes back at least to 1000 BCE. If indeed Phoenician is whats carved in the tablets then it appears case closed. That being said I have a hard time believing no other linguist caught on to this.

If you have any other information that shows this Id love to see it.

Thanks
et


[edit on 15-2-2007 by etshrtslr]

Originally posted by etshrtslr
From Byrd:

I want to know where he got the stories about it. The other inscription is also clearly very new. It could be 1930's, but I tend to think it's more modern.

It might well be from the 1930's or even more modern as Byrd claims but what about the claims from people saying it was known in the 1850's?

You'd have to ask "which people"?

So what you have appears on the surface is knowledge of the stone inscriptions from at least the 1850's and if thats the case its supposedly agreed that knowledge of paleo- Hebrew was not known until some time after that.

If it was genuine, there would be some sort of articles in antiquities journals about it. Although you might think that modern archaeologists and anthropologists are a bit stuffy in their choice of what to study, the ones that were present during the burgeoning years of the science were avid to study any sort of antiquity (real or not.)

There are far more modern articles about them. The most telling point would be the earliest appearance of these articles... not when someone says the articles appeared.

Originally posted by etshrtslr

didn't you understand the image you posted yourself ?

Marduk I have a hard enough time with English let alone any other modern language.

From what I understand the Phoenician alphabet is a Semitic language whose origins goes back at least to 1000 BCE. If indeed Phoenician is whats carved in the tablets then it appears case closed. That being said I have a hard time believing no other linguist caught on to this.

What generally happens is that a linguist looks at it and says, "that' a hoax." But they don't go out and write articles saying "here's the latest hoa!" -- no scholarship prizes go for thoat sort of writing. If it had been genuine, there would be a LOT of articles about the stone.

If it was genuine, there would be some sort of articles in antiquities journals about it. Although you might think that modern archaeologists and anthropologists are a bit stuffy in their choice of what to study, the ones that were present during the burgeoning years of the science were avid to study any sort of antiquity (real or not.)

Thank you for the reply Byrd.

As I said in an earlier post I dont know if the stone authentic or not but if you have any evidence that its a hoax I would love to see it so we can put this to rest.

Thanks
et

What generally happens is that a linguist looks at it and says, "that' a hoax." But they don't go out and write articles saying "here's the latest hoa!" -- no scholarship prizes go for thoat sort of writing. If it had been genuine, there would be a LOT of articles about the stone.

I guess we were writing at the same time of my last post. What you said above makes sense.

With that being said I would like to hear your opinion about what happens when discoveries are made that go against current conventional wisdom. Are they ignored? Or are they ridiculed as being absurd?

Im asking this because I have found nothing other than opinions from academia calling it a hoax without any supporting evidence.

I must add to my displeasure that Marduk has provided some insight and facts.

mmmmmm,
I think Marduk is right in this:

let me list the points again

1. Mormons knew Phoenecian and used it as a holy script
2. It is the mormon ten commandments that is written on the stone and no other
3. Mormons were known to be in the area since the 1840s


most importantly you would think that the Mormons would hold this up as proof that their faith is the correct one if they had nothing to do with it
their silence is very telling. Bit like the catholics reaction to the shroud of Turin eh

los lunas first and then genuine Phoenecian underneath
they are exactly the same script with minor variances that only a native speaker would notice at all. Palaeo Hebrew is just another way of saying Old Hebrew or archaic hebrew. the difference of glyph shapes between Phoenician and palaeo-Hebrew is vastly less than that between Phoenician and Latin.

I tend to believe In what Marduk has already said!!!!
If this place was to be visited by phoenicians or Hebrews thousands years ago, there would have left parts of their civilizations: Phoenician houses, tembles, markets, pottery etc.
Are there anything else beside this mysterious stone in this place? If not, then Mormons have some involvment

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Dragonlike]

Originally posted by win 52

HOPI STONE TABLETS
There was the cycle of the mineral, the rock.
There was the cycle of the plant.
And now we are in the cycle of the animals coming to the
end of that and beginning the cycle of the human being.

When we get into the cycle of the human being
the highest and greatest powers that we have
will be released to us.

While this might be a modern Hopi's prophecy, it's certainly not an ancient one. There are no mentions of cycles, and no mention of "powers released" in their ancient tales. The people had the power already. There was no need to release anything to them.

At the beginning of this cycle of time, long ago, the Great Spirit came down and He made an appearance and He gathered the peoples of this earth together they say on an island which is now beneath the water and He said to the human beings, "I'm going to send you to four directions and over time I'm going to change you to four colors, but I'm going to give you some teachings and you will call these the Original Teachings and when you come back together with each other you will share these so that you can live and have peace on earth, and a great civilization will come about."

This shows that the "legend" is something that occurred after the Christians came in to convert the Hopi. Here's an authentic "people come into the world" Hopi myth that predates the Christianizing of the Indians:
www.indians.org...

The philosophy in your cited quote seems to date to around 1960.

And he said, "During the cycle of time I'm going to give each of you TWO STONE TABLETS. When I give you those stone tablets, don't cast those upon the ground. If any of the brothers and sisters of the four directions and the four colors cast their tablets on the ground, not only, will human beings have a hard time, but almost the earth itself will die."

Definately something of modern Christian manufacture.

And so he gave each of us a responsibility and we call that the Guardianship.

This actually dates the "prophecy" to long after the Ghost Dance ceremonies. In none of the Ghost Dance prophecies is there a "guardianship" mentioned... only the redemption of the Indians
www.bgsu.edu...

To the South, he gave the yellow race ...
To the West He gave the black race ...
To the North He gave the white race ...

Not traditional colors, and the Native Americans didn't think of race as we think of it. This is a tale crafted by someone from the American culture.

And so a long time passed, and the Great Spirit gave each of the four races two stone tablets. Ours are kept at the Hopi Reservation in Arizona at Four Corners Area on 3rd Mesa.

I talked to people from the black race and their stone tablets are at the foot of Mount Kenya. They are kept by the Kukuyu Tribe.

No such belief is present in Kenya:
www.bluegecko.org...

I am not sure if this fits, but ledgend says that 2000 years ago the son of God walked with the Hopi people teaching them about this very thing.

A Mormon or Christian tale. Certainly the Hopi never knew of such a being.

wait, is that hebrew?

because i've never seen that language before

now, i have a question
where are the more...reputable sources?
like one from the archaeologist that found it

If one's agenda is to somehow prove some kind of Hebrew presence in North America 2,000 years ago then all I can add is that one artifact of any kind doesn't prove anything, anyway. Show me an archeological dig site of a Hebrew village, full of enough artifacts to unquestionably define it as such, in a clear context placing it around 2,000 years ago, then that would be something of which to sit up and take notice. Otherwise, it's just some kid scratching bad Hebrew on a rock. Whoopie.

Why would someone bother to create a hoax like this, but not know any hebrew and then just, for no particular reason, insert greek letters?
They wouldn't.

I'm not a good judge of what people will and won't do. Boredom, or an attempt to promote some obscure notion will drive people to engage in some interesting activities. Accuracy is a top priority in the instruction of Hebrew, though. So maybe somebody cribbed some Hebrew from another source, added a little Greek in to give it more of that "ancient" feel, and hoped somebody would interpret it as proof of Hebrew activity in relatively ancient North America. There are a lot of people who will still turn cartwheels trying to discover that old "lost tribe of Israel." And it was a particularly popular pastime around the turn of the previous century. It's even mentioned in passing in that excellent Jane Fonda movie "Cat Ballou." Time, boredom, agenda. Sure, they would.

Some people love to get all worked up about the 10 Commandments because they like the simplicity. They may be a little thicker than most folks and don't have the smarts to deal with this complex world without somebody writing the "rules" down for them and ordering them to follow.

I've always been of the opinion that if the 10 Commandments were so great, you'd think they would have caught on by now. Laws defining which piddling things as which side of the street we should drive on have been around a relatively short time, but they are so good and useful that we almost all agree to abide by them.

Me, I think coveting doesn't hurt anybody, but stealing crosses the line.

Its been said that Phoenicians not only invented the alphabet but also being one of the first to travel using boats may have gone places other then just the Mediterranean. Could it be the 10 commandments were borrowed from another semetic tribe?

Marduk nailed it. It is a LDS "Artifact"

The original 10 commandments is in Arabic.
It was given to Moses by God, and Arabic is the god's only language.

Accept the fact, though it hurts. 1.5 billions people can't be wrong.

Originally posted by CinLung
The original 10 commandments is in Arabic.
It was given to Moses by God, and Arabic is the god's only language.

Accept the fact, though it hurts. 1.5 billions people can't be wrong.

The whole Old Testament is written in classical Hebrew, except some brief portions which are in the Aramaic language (Ezra 4.8–6.18 and 7.12–26, Jeremiah 10.11, Daniel 2.4–7.28), a sister language which became the lingua franca of the Semitic world.

www.bible-researcher.com...

I think you need to brush up on your bible history.

Byrd......they didn't start writing down these things till the 1800's. Before that the stories were told and passed down for thousands of years. They would gather together twice a week and would have to tell the stories as a group. The older people would instruct the younger members of the tribe in how the story went. If there was a deviation in the story it would be corrected by the group. This was the way they kept the story straight. To my thinking...that would be a lot better than one person having the responsibility to remember the correct story.

So they knew things would happen. Things would speed up a little bit. There would be a cobweb built around the earth, and people would talk across this cobweb. When this talking cobweb, the telephone, was built around the earth, a sign of life would appear in the east, but it would tilt and bring death. It would come with the sun.

www.ausbcomp.com...

We shall attempt to set straight the things that have been said and printed about the Traditional Hopi by people who oppose the Hopi way of life, and are working hard to modify the ageless Hopi teachings. We hope this will bring more insight into Hopi life and help the children of today to understand their elders and not to hate them. We shall not attempt to indoctrinate, but merely to bring out the teachings that have enabled the Hopi to survive for centuries, and organize their minds for full efficiency.

I would suggest you don't try to put words in peoples mouths that are simply not right. According to them these stories are thousands of years old. Who should we believe....someone who has protected the record from being corrupted....or someone who is trying to make these records fit in their own agenda?

www.thehopiway.com...

There are many questions that must be clarified. To most people this will all sound rather foolish. The Hopi do not force people to take everything literally. There are limits to everything, and very few things can be taken to extremes. But one may learn something from it.

I have no reason to change what is and I would be more inclined to trust what these people are saying. The only other option is to trust what we are telling those people is their heritage as we see it. Which would you prefer to trust?

What we did to the Native people in the name of wealth, civilization and God, was a disgrace. That is what we do, we try to change things to fit our mould of what we believe no matter if it is right or wrong.

The Hopi were established long before the White Race came to this continent. Their leadership is deeply rooted in their culture and traditions, and most important, in the Creator's law, which is everlasting. Every race in the world began this way including the Bahannas. Therefore the traditional Hopi do not base their authority upon majority rule. Instead, they stand upon the oneness of man's tradition throughout the world. even the Bahanna Hopi still practice their ceremonies despite the fact that they spit upon their tradition. They must not have enough faith in their new leadership (Mormons and others) to follow them into Hades. The whole thing looks like a satirical comedy! Yes, our heritage is powerful. One cannot erase by law a peoples' traditions and religious history that has been nurtured by centuries, and lies at the base of every phase of their lives.

Which one of the Hopi groups did you pull your thoughts from Byrd?

For thousands of years we Hopi have lived in villages by a pattern established by the Great Spirit, whose teachings go all the way back to the dawn of time. All the prophecies are being fulfilled, including the period of great trial in which the world will be engulfed by efforts to force one's will upon others. As predicted, these efforts have grown so great that mankind has reached the brink of self-destruction.

The Hopi prophesy warned them of things that are going on right now. There was one about the two brothers in the east who will be struck down by an arrow with a firey tail....which is believed to be the World Trade Center. How could that have been predicted 200 years ago....could you hear the outcry of the educated masses......"BUNK".....'GARBAGE"......"IT IS A JOKE"....."THE HOPI ARE CRAZY".

But the Tribal Council and their followers try to turn the young against their elders by building an image of doubt. They create division, whereas the elders would have unity. They misrepresent themselves to the outside world as the leaders or "Chiefs" of the Hopi nation, while twisting what the Traditional leaders say. For example, the Traditionals' complaint that the Council acts in the fashion of a dictator is misrepresented in the article.

I wonder which parts have been twisted?

We are instructed in our ancient Prophecy that this would occur. We were told that someone would try to go up to the moon; that they would bring something back from the moon; and that after that, Nature would show signs of losing its balance. Now we see that coming about.

How could they predict travel to the moon thousands of years or even 2-3 hundred years ago? The scholars would have ridiculed such a statement 300 years ago.

So it was predicted by the prophets, that one day we would encounter the presence of people of other races with ways different from our own. That they will erect their own kingdom upon our land, they will pose as goodhearted. Their words will be charming and they will multiply like ants. We must not be deceived by them for the vines of their kingdom will spread throughout the land diluting and dissolving everything that gets in its way. We must be cautious and not covet or adopt any of their ways, for it will forever be a curse upon our nation.

It seems there was one about a person named Pienel who would come in a red cloak...a brother....from Tibet...where the oldest surviving manuscripts are kept.....well at least till the Chinese invasion. Fear not, because they still are in the hands of the right people....just in Northern India, with the Dali Lama.

Hopi leaders now believe the first two events were the first and second world ward and the "gourd full of ashes" in the atomic bomb. After the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki teachings formerly kept secret were compared and released to the world.

There are 44 news letters.

Accept the fact, though it hurts. 1.5 billions people can't be wrong.

2.1 billion christians think otherwise

Originally posted by etshrtslr

The whole Old Testament is written in classical Hebrew, except some brief portions which are in the Aramaic language (Ezra 4.8–6.18 and 7.12–26, Jeremiah 10.11, Daniel 2.4–7.28), a sister language which became the lingua franca of the Semitic world.

www.bible-researcher.com...

I think you need to brush up on your bible history.

That was and is a hoax, they copied everything from Arab and wrote their own version in Hebrew.

I think you need to do proper archeological works instead of jews plagiarism works.

That was and is a hoax, they copied everything from Arab and wrote their own version in Hebrew.

Can you provide proof of this hoax? And please make it something other than your anti-semitic misinformed opinion.

I remember reading something about this a few years ago and have found that it could be quite genuine (although how old I couldnt guess).
The reason that there is not many writings about it is that the area was not highly populated until the late 19th century and most of them were looking for land and not hebrew inscriptions and such like. There is however other evidence of hebrews in America and this evidence could corroborate these inscriptions - In the 1860's a condensed version of the 10 commandments were found in an ancient burial site in Ohio Link.
A quick root about the internet has unearthed these as well
link and link.
Another guy who has found stuff is Gene Savoy in 1989 link and link I haven't researched these links so I dont really know if they are authentic but they make good reading


G