A license to breed?

I'm just glad Bush is still pres. He's working on the population problem

Originally posted by thelibra
You need a license to operate a vehicle, to own a business, to fish, to hunt, to get married, to perform medicine, to vote...you even need a license to hold a bloody yard sale. And yet, any arsehat can breed and raise a child. The single-greatest irony of our world is that the single most important job on Earth requires no training, no oversight, and no license to prove competency.

This is a great quote to base this argument on. The solution however, can go both ways.

Should we start licensing breeders, or do away with all the other licenses and keep breeding, driving, hunting, etc. free for all?

America used to be the free society without rules where people could live their lives the way they saw fit. Unfortunately, the selfish ruined it for the rest of us. Those who used the benefits of a free country to take advantage of others caused people to complain. Rules were made, and freedoms removed one by one.

What if we were to have two societies? One governed, the other free. Let people choose where to live. What would you choose? Rules and safety, or freedom and danger?

Our only other option would be to put the vote to the people. Majority rules. Initially licensed breeding will be scoffed at, being a fairly new idea that most haven't considered.. but I bet it will eventually be law. Our society would probably benefit from it as a whole, as horrible as it sounds.

It's just too bad that humans are so bad that laws like this have to be considered.

In the western world (about 1 billion people) birth rates are very low and declining (Nationmaster), so a license to breed would have a very negative impact. Western families definetly need some more incentive to have children. In Australia the government has introduced a "baby bonus", which I think is a couple of thousand dollars a year. Cheaper daycare would probably be more effective though.

Why the need to breed? Surely there are enough children on the globe.

How many children in the 3rd and development world are dieing every day for the lack of basis requirements that we take for granted?

If we want to expand our populations, why not offer homes to these children?

In Western Countries... no... In Australia the average births per women is less than two or less.

In Africa and other countries it's VERY high leading to huge amounts of overpopulation and starvation. I beleive it MAY be a good thing to limit this in Africa, as this may limit suffering. It may also be hard to enforce though.

Morons should be unable to have kids... they don't deserve to of course.

:shk:

We cannot legislate morality. (But we keep trying... and failing...)

Morality is not decided by financial viability, or appearances.

Y'all wanna change the system and stop the influx of idiots? Then teach them how to be decent human beings -- kids, parents, the whole lot.

Putting hypocritical hands in people's reproductive organs (monkeys or not) is immoral.

I see people pulling the welfare card. What about those "parents" who work full-time jobs and, thus, have no time to spend being with (never mind teaching) their children? They are financially viable... and non-existent parents. What's the point?

I was taught: Once you have a child -- the child come first. You and your needs come second, if not third.

I didn't get that lesson in skool. I got that from my family who lived by that rule. I learned how to act correctly because of the lessons from my parents.

Not from our hypocritical society. Hypocrites have NO RIGHT to decide how other people should live.


And I don't think it's necessary to have a license for marriage, btw. Me and mine consider ourselves married, no piece of paper -- the piece of paper doesn't mean squat if there's no connection or will-power to make and keep the relationship healthy and working. Besides death and taxes, I see no reason to get that piece of paper.

(What's the point of having a license for marriage, when it's not even mandatory to have blood tests to make sure you're not twisting branches of the family tree?!?)

Some interesting points Diseria...........

I think one of the issues today is that we have a section of our population who were not taught how to be decent human beings when they were growing up, so they pass on the life lessons they were taught.

I fully agree, moving forward, teach people to be decent human beings should be the goal, but what can we do today? There appears to be another section of our population being brought up by people who have little idea on what it means to be a decent human being.

Do we continue to let them breed?

One of the goals of a licensed breeding program could be to ensure that the future parents understood the point that once you have a child, it comes first, now, tomorrow and until you die. And is being financially viable and having the means to support a child acceptable, if you have to work all the hours in the day, and maybe the night to support your child.

I am interested in who you think the hypocrites are? Diseria

Another thread to run along side this thread, could be to discuss who could be part of the licensing process.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
I think one of the issues today is that we have a section of our population who were not taught how to be decent human beings when they were growing up, so they pass on the life lessons they were taught.

I fully agree, moving forward, teach people to be decent human beings should be the goal, but what can we do today?

A change of televised programming might be an effective start... Especially with the little ones. Show Barney having a disagreement that ends in a discussion and mutual understanding of both sides, and why this or that action was wrong, what they could have done differently.

Change the general advertising -- switch from celebrities' dirty laundry to celebrities making positive changes, and how they are working to implement those changes. (I don't like Oprah -- but I loved reading about her efforts in Africa. At least she was trying to do something.)

Instead of drugs and mental-health problems (1 out of ever 5 Americans has this or that mental disorder), messages of how to breath, handle stress, and remain sane.

Instead of fear-mongering over those scary terrorists, a show trying to understand their (twisted) motives. (Impossible to work to solve a problem we know nothing about...)

A commercial about how the actions of the individual actually impact others, instead of this individualistic "Me me me" nonsense. (which, by the way, is the first step in an infant's development.... the child's supposed to move beyond that. And yet we engender it in our adults...)

There's a lot that could be implemented, most of it starting with the media.

...and there lies the rub: Morality is not profitable.

There appears to be another section of our population being brought up by people who have little idea on what it means to be a decent human being.

Do we continue to let them breed?

Since we've started on the moral path, we shall stay there. (Biologically speaking, it's quite easy to understand why people should breed.)

It is not a given that horrible parents will always produce horrible offspring. If the child is (at some point) taught logic and critical thinking, then mere observations of bad examples will provide even more information on how to act (or, rather, how NOT to act).

One of the goals of a licensed breeding program could be to ensure that the future parents understood the point that once you have a child, it comes first, now, tomorrow and until you die. And is being financially viable and having the means to support a child acceptable, if you have to work all the hours in the day, and maybe the night to support your child.

How would such a program ensure the right mentality when having children? Threats of punishment? (which might ensure right actions -- but those actions cannot be truly correct if the mindset is wrong, so we haven't really solved anything.)

I am interested in who you think the hypocrites are? Diseria

People at large. Throw a stone and you'll hit one (two if you're a good shot).

I realize that that's a gross over-generalization. I'd feel better if we knew that we were hypocrites -- consciously aware of our actions and how they are not in alignment with our principles, AND consciously working to change our actions so that they ARE in alignment with our spoken/believed principles.

The worse insult you can hurl at an ethical/moral person is "Hypocrite!"

I can call my neighbor a hypocrite. I have. All he does is shrug, "yeah, I know"... there's no shame anymore. There's no internal pull or external push to work towards NOT being a hypocrite.

In fact, we're not even pushing for people to be truly Good. Under threat of punishment, people seek to simply not be bad. They don't push the old lady out into the street because that's bad, and they will be punished.

At best, we are apathetic neutrals. We don't help the old lady across the street, bring her groceries in the house... if she can't do it for herself, tough cookies grandma! Plus, there's no reward system for doing good deeds, nor is it punishable to not do good. (And no, I'm not recommending that we install a system of punishment for not doing good actions. Again, that takes the purpose out of doing truly Good actions. And, frankly, it won't produce moral citizens.)

Which brings up another idea -- instead of being a guilt culture, maybe we should work towards becoming a shame culture. Don't force people to atone for their actions -- shame the # outta them!! A public shaming does wonders... (well, so I've heard...)


Edited for clarification.
[edit on 5-9-2007 by Diseria]

[edit on 5-9-2007 by Diseria]

ok let me just say something. put in my 2 cents about this. i think this is resonable.(sorry for bad grammar) but before you get angry let me say the circumstances i would find acceptable. step 1 at the age where and male child can first produce sperm the tube said sperm comes out of would be blocked by a ball of enzyme that could later be extremely easily dissolved with a simple vaccine. step 2: later in life said child (now an adult having to be over the age of 21) would go to the "birth lisencing clinic" and if 1. he had enough money to provide basic food and shelter / a way of getting said food and shelter, 2 had no major felonys (murder, rape, previous child abuse, ect), 3 could pass a basic pschlogical test proving they wouldnt beat,kill,mentally abuse,get drunk and beat the mother, said child. and, 4 the mother could also pass said tests. then the males sperm tubes would be cleared nd he would be given a breeding lisense. now is that so unresonable!? i dont think so. you arent discriminated upon by,race,class,or even value to society. if your not going to kill said child or abuse said child. then yer good. really people be a little undestanding, think