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Hi, ya'll. I was there. Here's the deal

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posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 04:11 AM
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Hi,
I was driven to come to this site after hearing Mark Allin's interview on the Powercast show. My girlfriend lived at a building in Battery Park City call Liberty House located on Rector St right next to the water on the Hudson. We were standing one block away from the south Tower looking up at it when it began to collaspe. There were no explosions! Where did this theory come from? The sound was like breaking match sticks which I presume was glass shattering. You just heard the sound of shattering and breaking. And then Swoosh! It all came down. I was within a thousand feet of the foot of the building when it happened. The sound was very distinct.

Let me say I have yet to read all of your theories regarding how the towers collasped . But, what is your theory as to why the buildings burned for 20 or so minutes before they collasped? Doesn't it make sense that the fires eventually melted the steel? Anyway, when Mark Allin said they're may have been "squids" exploding in the building I almost wrecked my car. I was really saddened that some believe that. So, lets hear it. What do you guys have to say about that? Oh, I'm typing on a new computer. I'll get you a picture of exactly where I was standing. It's on a floppy and my new comp doesn't have a floppy. But I'll figure out a way to show it to you if you guys want.




posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 04:28 AM
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Respectfully, The reason that many of us including me think that it was a controlled demolition was due to the fact that:

A No skyscraper in history has had total catostrophic structural failure due to a fire.

B The building fell at nearly freefall speed. If it were as the official story had suggested been a collapse due to the floors falling on one annother the building would have fallen down much more slowly.

C Eyewitnesses including police and firefighters reported hearing multiple explosions both within the building and without the building.

D There were sightings of "Squibs". These occoured at least three floors below where the building was collapsing and only were visible blowing out selected windows. If it had been a pancake effect collapse due to structural integrety failure the windows below the point of failure would explode out simultaniously because of increased air pressure forced down on the floors below.

E Fires at the temperature that was reported and known to have existed were not sufficiantly hot enough to melt steel. They were also not sufficiantly hot enough to weaken steel.

F Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel

G The second tower that was hit was the first tower to collapse.

I hope that puts things into a little more prespective for you. I was quite skeptical about 9/11 conspiracy theories before too. But overwhelming evidence has shown that there is something screwy about all of this. I am also starting my own research into the motive behind 9/11 because I have a different theory about why they allowed 3000 Americans to die.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by whatukno]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 04:50 AM
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Fire? Um, did you miss the part where large sections of the towers were eviscerated by jet-liners?...then fires.

How many 110 story steel structures have NOT fallen when this has happened?

My guess: ZERO

How many 40 + story steel structurs have NOT fallen when two giant skyscrapers collapse at their doorstep and then burn for 6 hours?

My Guess: ZERO

I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.

Let me explain:

If we can go back and rewatch the horrible events that unfolded many times over, not as shocked victims anymore--but now as "Investigative analysts" empowered with the quest for "truth" --it has a therapeudic effect, a desensitization.

The 9/11 conspiracy theory works as a bridge to get people involved in understanding, and attempting to cope. (I know there are people out there that just say .."heck, 9/11 never affected me; So this whole learning to cope thing doesn't apply to me" but deep down...it did/still does)

This is a good thing!

After the initial *9/11 conspiracy RUSH* of "OMG!! I just became ENLIGHTENED" or "I cannot believe I am discovering this secret! Wow..Me!"

One hopes that reason, logic, and critical analysis drives ones fact finding mission. EVEN if the analysis goes against what one wants the outcome to be.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:05 AM
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Those towers should still be standing at least from the impact zone down if the steel did indeed fail.Check out this site for a good explanation.here Its physically impossible for the towers to have fallen due to planes impacting and fire.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by GwionX
Fire? Um, did you miss the part where large sections of the towers were eviscerated by jet-liners?...then fires.

How many 110 story steel structures have NOT fallen when this has happened?

My guess: ZERO

How many 40 + story steel structurs have NOT fallen when two giant skyscrapers collapse at their doorstep and then burn for 6 hours?

My Guess: ZERO

I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.

Let me explain:

If we can go back and rewatch the horrible events that unfolded many times over, not as shocked victims anymore--but now as "Investigative analysts" empowered with the quest for "truth" --it has a therapeudic effect, a desensitization.

The 9/11 conspiracy theory works as a bridge to get people involved in understanding, and attempting to cope. (I know there are people out there that just say .."heck, 9/11 never affected me; So this whole learning to cope thing doesn't apply to me" but deep down...it did/still does)

This is a good thing!

After the initial *9/11 conspiracy RUSH* of "OMG!! I just became ENLIGHTENED" or "I cannot believe I am discovering this secret! Wow..Me!"

One hopes that reason, logic, and critical analysis drives ones fact finding mission. EVEN if the analysis goes against what one wants the outcome to be.


You don't seem to be following your own argument.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by hummarstra
We were standing one block away from the south Tower looking up at it when it began to collaspe.


A question pls...

So when you saw the top section of the South Tower tilting and rotating as the collapse mechanism started what were your initial thoughts?



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by GwionX
Fire? Um, did you miss the part where large sections of the towers were eviscerated by jet-liners?...then fires.

How many 110 story steel structures have NOT fallen when this has happened?

My guess: ZERO

How many 40 + story steel structurs have NOT fallen when two giant skyscrapers collapse at their doorstep and then burn for 6 hours?

My Guess: ZERO

I realize this isn't as much fun as concocting a complex plan.

I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.

Let me explain:

If we can go back and rewatch the horrible events that unfolded many times over, not as shocked victims anymore--but now as "Investigative analysts" empowered with the quest for "truth" --it has a therapeudic effect, a desensitization.

One hopes that reason, logic, and critical analysis drives ones fact finding mission. EVEN if the analysis goes against what one wants the outcome to be.


Problem is both NIST and FEMA stated that the planes impacts caused little damage, specially to the South tower where the plane had gone in at an angle thrhough the side.

The Empire State building was struck by a B-25 causeing structural damage and fires but the building did not collapse.

As far as building 7 goes here are at least 4 other steel buildings that had fires lasting longer then any of the WTC buildings and also suffered structural damage but did not collapse.


Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.

1. One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire starting on the 22nd floor, and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".

The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.

2. The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss.

A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:

In spite of a total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans.

3. The 1 New York Plaza Fire
1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours.

4. The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began on the 34th floor and spread to over 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.


The people that still believe the official story are the ones who are trying to cope. Lets hope with a little common sense and some research people will find the facts even if it goes against the story fed to us by the media.





[edit on 15-2-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
A question pls...

So when you saw the top section of the South Tower tilting and rotating as the collapse mechanism started what were your initial thoughts?


I wasnt there but I can tell you most peoples initial thoughts were HOLY (Deleted for Security Reasons)!

This was well documented on several news agencies that were at the site on that day. It almoast sounded like the beep was having an epeleptic fit.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by hummarstra
But, what is your theory as to why the buildings burned for 20 or so minutes before they collasped? Doesn't it make sense that the fires eventually melted the steel?


No, to heat steel enough for failure, let alone melt, it would require a direct heat of very high temp for a long period of time. Office fires and jet fuel fires do not get hot enough to soften steel, let alone cause 47 massive steel columns to fail completely.

We're talking about 110 story buildings where in the case of the North Tower the fires were only in floors 92 and up. That leaves 90 odd floors that were neither damaged nor on fire. How do you think the columns below the points of impact 'melted' with no direct heat source?

Also a collapse from gradually softening and melting steel would not be an instant and explosive to the ground symmetrical collapse. Think about it.

How does melting steel explain pieces of the facade being ejected 600ft?
How does it explain all the concrete, office furniture, etc...being turned to dust? How did you clean all that dust of you btw?

Even the official story makes no claim that the steel was melted.

Don't you guys do any forging in school any more?



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by GwionX
I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.


To be fair, you've only addressed one particular 9/11 related conspiracy theory... that of a controlled demolition. In my opinion, you're probably right.. the towers came down because they we weakened by both the fire AND the plane impacts..

However to write off ALL 9/11 theories based on that one issue may be unwise.

e.g. Who ultimately hired the "terrorists"? How do you KNOW someone from the west wasn't actually pulling the strings... Does the buck REALLY stop with Bin Laden? How do you KNOW the planes weren't modified in some way, so the perps could be sure the planes hit their target or were destroyed miles from anywhere?

1. Intelligence agencies can run agents, who can recruit patsies, who can be pursuaded to hijack planes.
2. Security companies loyal to the intelligence agency's agenda can "turn a blind eye at airports", to ensure the hijackers aren't impeded.
3. Operatives can install hidden control hardware, such as that developed by Raytheon for the Global Hawk UAV , into flight control systems, either pre-progamming the route or allowing remote control..

This whole operation could be done with barely a dozen people "in the know", no more than the "conspiracy theory" that it was pulled off by a rogue Ex-mujahadeen fighter..
..

Personally I became suspicious when I learned that 5 of the key people at Raytheon all died on 9/11... not on the same plane, but 3 different ones..


Coincidentally, five key Raytheon executives died on 9-11: Stanley Hall--Director of Electronic warfare program management (American 77), Peter Gay--VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made (American 11), Kenneth Waldie--Senior Quality Control Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11), David Kovalcin--Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11), and Herbert Homer--Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense (United 175).

Curiously, the five Raytheon executives chose three of the four doomed jets and all happened to fly on September 11. Have their family members been interviewed? Other co-workers? Defense Department officials?

Raytheon's top people tied to the Global Hawk remote control UAV aircraft systems all died on 9/11 without a grand jury probing their memos, electronic messages, phone records, meeting calendars, visits or calls to Ft. Collins-Loveland airport or testimony related to other related matters.

portland.indymedia.org...

Cooincidence? Did any other companies lose people on three different flights that day?


[edit on 15-2-2007 by nowthenlookhere]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 06:25 AM
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I think this site explains everything ---from impact-- to all of the explosions
in WTC
1 thru 7
www.911studies.com...

Enlighten yourself



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Hi, guys. I'm back' Let me first thank all of you for keeping it civil in here. I watched some of those explanational videos. But, I have two questions which I'm sure has already been debated on this site. But, since I'm new, I hope you forgive me.

1. Can you explain why the buildings burned so long before they collasped? If your answer is "to get more firemen inside the building as to heighten the death count", well didn't that also give thousands plenty of time to get out thus lowering the death count?

2. Explain Osama's statements made on the captured video in which he explains how he planned the attack.

I'm gonna post some pics in just a second...



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 07:06 PM
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can someone tell me how to upload a freakin' pic from my desktop??? I don't see that option.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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I personally dont think there were any explosive devices use at the WTC,it would simply take to much man power and time to set it up.Even if there were,where did they find the people to set the explosives up?It would of taken dozen's of people to do this,they would of had to tear down wall's set up the explosive's then repair the wall's,it takes to many people.Someone would of said something by now.I'm in the construction trade and it take's week's for electrician's to set up all the wiring in a residential home,never mind setting up exposive's secretly in one of the most famous buildings on the planet.

Why use explosive's and risk getting caught and create a huge scandal if a jetliner could do the job?Even if the Tower's wouldn't of fallen they would be totally useless anyway.

What I do believe is that certain official's and world elitist's had foreknowledge of the attack's and took advantage of it.I do also think that the CIA or some top secret agency/shadow government may of planted the "seed's" to get the whole thing going.But explosive's nah I'll pass on that theory simply because they were not needed.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by Samblack]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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What happens when you take out all the load bearing walls in a building? Don't forget that the structure of the WTC was a lot different to other skyscrapers, the exoskeleton basically held up the whole building. I'm totally convinced that the people who planned these attacks were aware of this design flaw.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by nowthenlookhere

Originally posted by GwionX
I *truly* feel this whole 9/11 conspiracy industry has stemmed from people's (Americans) need to cope.


To be fair, you've only addressed one particular 9/11 related conspiracy theory... that of a controlled demolition. In my opinion, you're probably right.. the towers came down because they we weakened by both the fire AND the plane impacts..

However to write off ALL 9/11 theories based on that one issue may be unwise.

e.g. Who ultimately hired the "terrorists"? How do you KNOW someone from the west wasn't actually pulling the strings... Does the buck REALLY stop with Bin Laden? How do you KNOW the planes weren't modified in some way, so the perps could be sure the planes hit their target or were destroyed miles from anywhere?

1. Intelligence agencies can run agents, who can recruit patsies, who can be pursuaded to hijack planes.
2. Security companies loyal to the intelligence agency's agenda can "turn a blind eye at airports", to ensure the hijackers aren't impeded.
3. Operatives can install hidden control hardware, such as that developed by Raytheon for the Global Hawk UAV , into flight control systems, either pre-progamming the route or allowing remote control..

This whole operation could be done with barely a dozen people "in the know", no more than the "conspiracy theory" that it was pulled off by a rogue Ex-mujahadeen fighter..
..

Personally I became suspicious when I learned that 5 of the key people at Raytheon all died on 9/11... not on the same plane, but 3 different ones..


Coincidentally, five key Raytheon executives died on 9-11: Stanley Hall--Director of Electronic warfare program management (American 77), Peter Gay--VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made (American 11), Kenneth Waldie--Senior Quality Control Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11), David Kovalcin--Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11), and Herbert Homer--Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense (United 175).

Curiously, the five Raytheon executives chose three of the four doomed jets and all happened to fly on September 11. Have their family members been interviewed? Other co-workers? Defense Department officials?

Raytheon's top people tied to the Global Hawk remote control UAV aircraft systems all died on 9/11 without a grand jury probing their memos, electronic messages, phone records, meeting calendars, visits or calls to Ft. Collins-Loveland airport or testimony related to other related matters.

portland.indymedia.org...

Cooincidence? Did any other companies lose people on three different flights that day?


[edit on 15-2-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Perfectly put, that was a great post and really puts into words what I wish more people would *get* about 9/11.
*You have voted nowthenlookhere for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.*



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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S-Q-U-I-B-S





What you see in this picture is the demolition of the mechanical floors WTC 2. These floors (74, 75, 76) were much stronger than the regular floors and required a large explosive force in order to ensure total collapse.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by freakyty]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by hummarstra
1. Can you explain why the buildings burned so long before they collasped? If your answer is "to get more firemen inside the building as to heighten the death count", well didn't that also give thousands plenty of time to get out thus lowering the death count?


Who said the objective was the cause a major ammount of deaths? I mean, lets just say it were just terrorists, why not attack, you know, noon? mid day, when everybody was there. Why attack when there were only 3,000 or so combined workers in the office that hour? You'd think you would think, as a terrorist, you would try to kill the most people in one shot, for shock value and to strengthen your "point."

Ofcourse, now, if it was a government black-ops project, using hired terrorists to do things at very specific times (like we did with the original 9/11 bombing.) Well, you wouldnt WANT to kill alot of civilians. You would want it to be a false flag terror event. There would need to be just enough casualties to strengthen your fingerpointing, but you dont want to endanger too many lives. I mean, think about it, those buildings should have fallen like trees, thats basic physics. When you cut down a tree, all the weight goes to one end, and it falls. It doesnt collapse straight down into itself. Those were uneven fires, and for it to fall, there needs to be a global collapse, with every bolt on the structure falling out at the same time (about I think 1 thousand of them in the structural support) and EVERY beam fail. If one didnt, all the weight goes there, and it falls like a tree.

It wasnt about killing a massive ammount of people, it was about making it noticed.



2. Explain Osama's statements made on the captured video in which he explains how he planned the attack.


Thats the video tape with the fat Osama bin laden, the one that looks healthy and totally not suffering from Kidney Failure; who's writing with his wrong hand and who's wearing a gold wedding band, something which is outlawed in Islam, a religion which that same man is considered an extremist in, correct?



[edit on 2-15-2007 by WolfofWar]



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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Wolf of war you got my vote for way above.Darn good points you posted man.



posted on Feb, 15 2007 @ 09:22 PM
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I am not atall sure, but i know that certain chemical combos of stuff can be ignnited to cut steel beams...or weld them together.
Skip out the testimony of police and first responders who were there too and have testified to jhearing explosions.....
The facts remain that some of the steel was anayzed and reportedly had traces of thermite on them.
The fire in the base of the buildings burned at teemperatures unattainable without some accellernt....
The temps were hot enough to liquify steel down there....
What ever happened to all the GOLD RESERVES supposedly stored down stairs by the way?



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