Freemasonry: Related to Druidism?

I'm not a mason, but isn't the oldest lodge only about 300 years old ?

maybe its the stone masons that go back to egypt ?

Hi Jillian Bacardi


Not all Buddhist sects are as pure as snow.

See the following posts on the disputes within the Karma Kagyu School of Buddhism.

The most powerful Black Magicians in the world are probably Tibetan or Bhutanese Sorcerers(In fact, A. Hitler himself is said to have been a puppet of the Tibetan "man with green gloves").


I do however agree that Buddhism is generally the most peaceful Religion.

The Sufis, Gnostics, and Tibetan Buddhists as a whole are currently, IMO, the main inheritors of Divine Wisdom.



And trust me, Manly P. Hall is certainly not on the "Saturday Night Live" tip.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I'm not a mason, but isn't the oldest lodge only about 300 years old ?

No, some of the Lodges in England and Scotland were formed in the middle ages.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I'm not a mason, but isn't the oldest lodge only about 300 years old ?

maybe its the stone masons that go back to egypt ?

Masonry existed before it was "publicly" acknowledged.. which is why it is so freaking frustrating to pinpoint where we came from, who founded us and for what exact purpose.. though we have a general idea that from the enlightenment age perhaps it began as a simple movement using Mason guilds as a base for symbolic knowledge. Or perhaps it grew from another religion like druidism or out of the Church in some way, or from the knowledge of the Templars, or maybe the Templars angry at the way they where treated formed a secular community in which to carry on their traditions away from the Pope. Sadly, no one knows.

Stone Masons go back thousands of years.. but the Guilds are of the Dark to Middle ages.. One question I always had about it is why Masons, their where plenty of guilds.. weaver guilds, trader guilds, musician guilds, painting guilds.. a guild for nearly every craft.. and the most powerful was the banking guilds of the Knights Templar.. so if we came from the Templars why not use the power of the banking guilds? Its all confusing.. we need a time machine to warp back and find out what the hell was going on.. untill then, pure speculation.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Also, Druidism has little in common with Hindu or Buddist, I cannot see at all what your talking about? Many cultures around the world relate the snake to being a god of some kind, or a influencial part in their religion in some way.

The Secret Doctrine of Anahuac

The Druids of the Celtic-Brittany regions also called themselves Serpents. "I am a Serpent, I am a Druid," they exclaimed.

The Egyptian Karnak is the twin of the British Carnac, which means The Mount of the Serpent.

Godfrey Higgins' Anacalypsis

…"In my Essay on The Celtic Druids, I have shewn, that a great nation called Celtæ, of whom the Druids were the priests, spread themselves almost over the whole earth, and are to be traced in their rude gigantic monuments from India to the extremities of Britain. Who these can have been but the early individuals of the black nation of whom we have been treating I know not, and in this opinion I am not singular. The learned Maurice says, "Cuthites, i. e. Celts, built the great temples in India and Britain, and excavated the caves of the former."*







And the learned Mathematician, Reuben Burrow, has no hesitation in pronouncing Stonehenge to be a temple of the black, curly-headed Buddha."

Buddhism, FreeMasonry and Gnosis

The Secret Doctrine of Anahuac

"The Brahmans got their cosmogony, arts, culture and science from the famous Naga-Mayans, later called Danavas.

The Nagas and the Brahmans used the sacred symbol of the feathered serpent, an irrefutable Mexican or Mayan symbol.

The Upanishads contain a treatise on the science of the serpents, or, in other words, the science of occult knowledge.



The Nagas (serpents) of esoteric Buddhism, are perfect, authentic and self realized men, by virtue of their occult knowledge and they are the protectors of Buddha’s Law, because they correctly interpret his metaphysical doctrines.

The crown, in the shape of an asp — the Thermuthis — belongs to Isis, our individual inner Divine Mother Kundalini (we all have our own). Kundalini, the Igneous Serpent of our magical powers, coiled in the coccygeal magnetic center (base of the spinal column), flashes likes a lightning bolt.

The great Kabir Jesus of Nazareth would never have advised his disciples to be as wise as the serpent if it had been the symbol of evil. Neither would have the Ophites, the Egyptian Gnostic sages of the fraternity of the Serpent, adored a living snake in their liturgy as the symbol of divine Sophia (wisdom), If the reptile had been related to the powers of evil." - Samael Aun Weor

It is also very interesting to note that the HU or the Breath of Life written about in the poems of the Sufi Master Rumi, is repeated in the names of many expressions of the Cosmic Christ:

HU = Breath of Life: Christ-Chokmah, TeHUti of Ancient Khemet, HU of the Druids, HUng or HUM of Tantric Buddhism, HUeHUeteotl of the Aztecs, etc.





The Gnostic poet and artist William Blake is said to have been a Druid as well.





I'd be willing to bet that Godfrey Higgins was a member of the same order...


...and it looks like my intuition is correct on this!

1827 CE

August, 21: William Blake dies. He is succeeded by Geoffrey Higgins as chief of AOD.

1829 CE

Godfrey Higgins publishes "The Celtic Druids"

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I'm not a mason, but isn't the oldest lodge only about 300 years old ?

No, some of the Lodges in England and Scotland were formed in the middle ages.

at what point did the stone masons become the free masons ?

Wasn't free masonry about discussing progressive ideas, whereas stone masons were a group of tradesman who more or less formed a union of sorts to help get work, and to standardize techniques ?

Tamuh, many .. many ... many religions around the world worshiped serpants of many kinds for many reasons.

Also, it would be great if you didnt post pics of everything from your gnostic website...

Do you own that site?

Just wondering..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Tamuh, many .. many ... many religions around the world worshiped serpants of many kinds for many reasons.

Well, if you really want to see what I'm talking about here, then study the works of Godfrey Higgins and William Blake(who were both Druids and FreeMasons).

And again, the writings of Samael Aun Weor, Hargrave Jennings, John Yarker, H.P. Blavatsky, Albert Churchward, Manly P. Hall, etc.

Also, it would be great if you didnt post pics of everything from your gnostic website...

Actually, only one of those five pics is from a Gnostic website(which is not mine, by the way).

Why would it bother you anyway?

It helps to illustrate what is being said or quoted.

Do you own that site?

Just wondering..

No.

Indeed Tamuh, I found the book via E-book and read bits of it when I can at work, however I do not take every thing said as fact.. because it isn't .. not all religions go back directly to the same source, while some do, some don't, the fact that some man who is a self proclaimed Druid and a self professed Mason does not mean it's true. Also he wrote this some 200 years ago, many significant finds have been made to find where the Celtic people came from.. DNA evidence and such has pointed towards a mixed race of Normons and Scandinavian peoples... but even that can go back only so far, remains have been found as far back as 6,000 years, and this is in tombs .. so some sort of stone age civilization.. or at least and most likely tribes lived there. While civilization was kicking off in the Fertile Crecent and else where, they did not have the know how or technology to survive a expedition to such far away lands.. even Rome had limitations..

Not that I have anything against Gnosism or especially Buddism.. I to find Buddism to be a very pure and peacefull religion.. I cannot think of a mass war that broke out over Buddist taking over territory.. though there may have been who knows

I'm not expecting you to believe anything.


However, it is an incontrovertible fact that Godfrey Higgins was a FreeMason.

Besides, if he was a fraud, I really don't think that so many Masonic writers would have cited his works.





As for Godfrey Higgins and William Blake being Druids...:

The University of Sheffield: Druidic Myths and Freemasonry

...The formation of the Ancient Order of Druids and the development of Iolo's gorsedd were to some extent inspired by theories based on emergent ideas of philology and archaeology put forward by writers such as John Cleland and William Borlase. These in turn influenced Thomas Paine, a friend of Iolo, who, in developing his ideas that christianity was a blasphemous distortion of an ancient deist religion of the sun, argued that freemasonry was an underground survivor of that old druidic religion.

These ideas were taken up a greater length by the Yorkshire radical writer and pioneer of comparative religion, Godfrey Higgins, who in two heady works, The Celtic Druids and Anacalypsis served up a heady brew of etymology and comparative religion which anticipates almost every new age speculation that has been concocted ever since.

Higgins became a freemason to penetrate its mysteries further and declared that 'I have no doubt that the masons were druids, culidei or chaldei, and Casidaees. The Chaldeans are traced downward to Scortland and York, and tyhe Masons backwards from this day to meet the Culidei at York...'

Centre for Research into Freemasonry, University of Sheffield

...The impact of Higgins’s work was not confined to Freemasonry, but can still be seen today in many new age and radical groups.

Various Druid orders, whose own origins can be traced back to Freemasonry through the Ancient Order of Druids, have claimed that Higgins was a successor of John Toland and William Blake as Chief Druid.





Higgins’s idea that nations and religions derive from a great black empire have been enthusiastically taken up by black groups. Higgins was cited by Malcolm X.

However, the most remarkable impact of Higgins’s work was on theosophy. Madame Blavatsky was an enthusiastic reader of Higgins, and it has been pointed out that in many ways Anacalypsis, with its emphasis on the cycles of history and the role of avatars, was in many ways a precursor of Blavatsky’s Isis Unveiled.

When Annie Besant (who was one of the publishers of the Library and Museum’s reprint of a collection of Robert Taylor’s sermons) left the Fabian Society, a note was made in the membership register that she had ‘gone to theosophy’, but maybe she had not gone away but returned to an aspect of the British radical tradition which reached back to Paine, Carlile and Higgins, the Archdruid...

I don't doubt that Masonry could have been derived from Druidism, infact I believe it to be a likely possibility, the only problem I had with Higgins is his claims as far as historical accuracy regarding where Celts and Druids came from. I believe his facts to be unsupported by modern science and archaeology.

ya, i've been doing some masonic studies for a few years, and...it's a cult. i went into it with a very open mind, in fact thinking that it was most likely nothing but a grown up version of 4-H. i was very wrong. i like to float around conspiracy theory sites and the conversation always drifts into masonry so i thought i'd do a little research so i could know what i'm talking about. i got a copy of Waite and started reading. i am a lutheran and i know a lot about catholocism, christianity and church history. i also know a decent amount about wicca and dark arts. not a lot, but enough to see a LOT of similarities. here are just a few:

from the preface: "masonry is part of a divine quest" so not a fraternal order as they claim

in the illistrations there are pentagrams all over the place

they name their offices things such as "high preist" and "worshipfull master"

they admittedly ahve strong connections with Alchemy, Astrology, Kabalism and ceremonial magic

in a Masonic creed they say "I believe in the resurection of Hiram" which is extremely close to teh Christian Church's "i believe in the resurection of (jesus') body"

at least 1/4 of the people discussed in A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry have very strong ties to the occult

although they teach that they dictate no one way of religion or way to heaven they do say that "(the Supreme Architect of the Universe) will reward us according to our merrits. this is works-ritousness exactly.

they also believe in "Masonic Baptism" where a child is baptized into (the church of) freemasonry. if you are a christian or know a lot about the christian faith you know that his is some serious crap.

oh, and did i mention that there are PENTAGRAMS EVERYWHERE? there are.

they share the words "so mote et be" exclusively with satanism, paganism, wicca, and yes, druidism.

they as well share their initiation ceremony, not just some similarities, the WHOLE THING in means and meaning with wicca.

so if you are a mason, speculitive or not, and a christian or are otherwise religious (not meaning pagan or of the Masonic Cult) please contact me and i will give you more evidence.

Well you sure seem to have an open mind.



But I wont ridicule your findings simply because few would agree entirely.

they share the words "so mote et be" exclusively with satanism, paganism, wicca, and yes, druidism.

I found this intersting.. along with the line about baptism..

-- Doesn't that mean Christianity is a cult? Doesn't it fit the description that you just posted in regards to Freemasonry as well?

But any ways, back to your point about So mote it be.. It translates into "let it be so" .. how is that "satanic"? its origins are anglo-saxon, it has nothing to do with "satan" which I might add I do not beleive there is a "satan" how then, can I worship Satan?

Is Masonry "pagan" .. yes.. because it is different then the Church. Masonry is NOT Christian, it is therefor Pagan.

Is it related to pagantry? I have my own theories, this entire thread is a meer sample of my theory, and yes, it is associated with a mixture of paganism, mysticsm and perhaps maybe a few others.. it is a hybrid of many things, depending on your view of history.

Is there something wrong with Pagans?

I am not Christian, I would not consider my self "pagan" because I do not follow any religion.. but I know many great people who ARE pagans.. I would prefer their company over many Christians because they don't press their views on any one in true biggoted fashion.

Does Freemasonry in some way follow the teachings of Wicca? No. Wicca follows Freemasonry. From my understanding, the founder of Wicca was actually a Mason, and so it may take a few fundamental signs of Masonry. that would only be natural.

And is there something wrong with wiccans? Whats wrong with having another faith other then your own? I have no problem with Jews, Hindus, Buddist, nor Christians.. and I also have no problems with wiccans, druids or any one else. Believe what you wish. If there are Masons who are "pagans" and I know a few, and a few on these boards, perhaps maybe my self. Whats wrong with that? Please. Explain.

Is Freemasonry related to Druidism? I really do believe now that I stated my hypothesis all wrong.. Is Freemasonry related and possibly decended from Gaelic culture and influences, possibly while Templars where in hiding in Scotland and Whales? Yes. I certainly see evidence of such a claim.

Is there something wrong with that?

Originally posted by Masoncult
ya, i've been doing some masonic studies for a few years,

Wow, I'm impressed.

from the preface: "masonry is part of a divine quest" so not a fraternal order as they claim

From the preface of what?

And is there some sort of law that says that fraternal orders can't be a part of divine quest? If so, why not?

in the illistrations there are pentagrams all over the place

What illustration?

in a Masonic creed they say "I believe in the resurection of Hiram" which is extremely close to teh Christian Church's "i believe in the resurection of (jesus') body"

What "Masonic creed" is that?

BTW, no Mason believes in "the resurrection of Hiram", as Hiram was not resurrected.

at least 1/4 of the people discussed in A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry have very strong ties to the occult

Too bad it wasn't all of them. Occultism is a very interesting topic, and is currently experiencing a great revival.

although they teach that they dictate no one way of religion or way to heaven they do say that "(the Supreme Architect of the Universe) will reward us according to our merrits. this is works-ritousness exactly.

What does "ritousness" mean?

they also believe in "Masonic Baptism" where a child is baptized into (the church of) freemasonry.

Are you sure about that?

oh, and did i mention that there are PENTAGRAMS EVERYWHERE? there are.

Everywhere? Like where. exactly?

they share the words "so mote et be" exclusively with satanism, paganism, wicca, and yes, druidism.

Are you sure about that?

After all, modern pagans and wiccan say it just because the Masons do. And the Masons say it because that is the literal interpretation of "Amen".

And Satanists do not use the term. It is nowhere mentioned in The Satanic Bible, nor in the orthodox official Satanic rituals (see the books by Anton Szandor LaVey).

they as well share their initiation ceremony, not just some similarities, the WHOLE THING in means and meaning with wicca.

Not surprising since the founder of Wicca, Gerald Gardner, had been a Mason, and used some aspects of Masonic ritual when creating his own.

so if you are a mason, speculitive or not, and a christian or are otherwise religious (not meaning pagan or of the Masonic Cult) please contact me and i will give you more evidence.

But what about proud infidels such as me and Rockpuck?

Rockpuck, this is a long time since your first posting however the paths of both do run together, you may have found this now after years in the "Craft".

Hi there, can I suggest you have a look here, some of the best books you could ever read are online here.
www.sacred-texts.com...

The Hiram Key by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, both Masons is a fun read.

Although the druids were thought to have been inspired by the teachings of the Greek philosopher Pythagoras, this can not be true due to dating of the stone circles , the ancients of Ireland did have great mathematical knowledge with the stone cirlces based on equations before the birth of Pythagoras.
The Pythagoras theorem is mentioned in Veda Angas and it is believed that Pythagoras got this from Indians, as mentioned in many history books.


The principal point of their doctrine", says Caesar, "is that the soul does not die and that after death it passes from one body into another". Caesar tells us that the Druids trained for a lengthy 20 years. Years ago after leaving grammar school I was contracted to started write a book on Irish folklore, which lead me to the books on stone circles and to this day much further;].

I do recall after reading Professor Alexander Thom, I rang a few universities and Museums about this theory and was laughed at down the phone… that was the day I walked out of the job;] and



There is also quite interesting info here on Archeoastronomy, Newgrange is amazing and I use it as one of the sources for my artwork .

en.wikipedia.org...



outside source

www.skyandlandscape.com...

Professor Alexander Thom was one of the foremost scientists and engineers
of the last century. Once Chair of Engineering Science at Brasenose College,
Oxford, following an already distinguished career in both the academic and
industrial world, during the War he had been Principal Scientific Officer for
the design of the High Speed Wind Tunnel at the Royal Aircraft Establishment,
Farnborough, and had assisted Sir Barnes Wallace in the design of the famous
‘bouncing bomb’ of Dambuster’s fame.
From 1934, Thom became interested in the megalithic culture that had
erected the stone circles, rows and other monuments in Neolithic and Bronze
Age Britain. He began to accurately survey these sites, and in 1967 published
Megalithic Sites in Britain (Oxford) where he claimed the builders had been
skilled surveyors and astronomers, and had used an accurate unit of length
to mark out their constructions throughout Britain, a length he called the
Megalithic yard (2.72 feet or 0.829m). Thom also discovered that they were
using a geometry based on right-angled ‘Pythagorean’ triangles, triangles
whose sides were whole numbers of this same Megalithic yard, or subdivisions
or multiples of it. He also proposed that they were observing both the sun and
moon using precision alignments to identified sites or natural features on a
distant horizon. He even showed that they could have predicted eclipses.

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[edit on 29-5-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

This thread is more than likely dead, but oh well, somethings will always be under watchful eyes of the curious.

Free masonry and druidism, are they related.

Possibly. But more importantly why care.

As it has been to told to me, by a few acquiantaces, whom are free masons, and (against oath) do talk to me about certains things, free masonry, is its own entity. I know some shriners (yes a shriners are part of the masonic order), I know a few of the Scotish Rite, and I knew a man, whom on his death bed, told me he was a knight of the holy (rockpuck, if your are a mason, you know I cannot and will not finish the name of that order), the later being the highest and most elite of the masonic order. Other groups such as Skull and Bones and Illumnati are basically the ivy league college of Secret Societies (They come from money, have money, want money). AS I have been told, the free masons are the remnants of the Knights of the Templar, who fled europe to Scotland after the Pope had them excommunicated out of fear that they had more power than he. That is why, two of the basic requirements to join freemasonry are this, You MUST have a Religion or a God you believe, no matter whom, Satan, Christ, Cerrnounos, Odin, Zeus, Mohammad, Ewyho, God, you cannot be and atheist, this is one rule. The Second, you cannot be Catholic, since the Pope wanted to kill the Templar Knights.

Now the Druids. First of all, no druid will ever tell anyone he is a druid, it has been that way since right before the holy crusades. Most druids adapted to "the new religion" while still staying true to the old ways. I have done my own research on the Druids, as I teach Irish Celtic Traditions, and found out some interesting things. One the Celtic Lands, only recenlty (in the grand scheme of things) became Gaelic Region. Celtic, refers to a tribe of men, not an area. As far as Druids, you had the Gaelic Druids, Gaul Druids and Welsh Druids. Gaul being most of Asia Minor. Druids have also been recorded to have existed back into the time of Julius Ceasar (Yeah brutus and ceasr and the Ides of March, Divacious, Ceasars Advisor, being the druid. Pick up a Book, The Druid Source Book, all kinds of dates)

Don't worry about the link between them, anyone can find a link to anything if they try hard enough. If you are happy, than you are on the right path for yourself, if you are unhappy, look else where.

And another note the term pagan, gets thrown around too much by new agers. Pagan was bestowed upon the farming peasants in old europe. It is not a religion, it is the lack of organized religion by the country dwellers. By the true definition (not the amercanized bastarditation) it simply means someone who does not go to church. neo-pagan refers to the New Age movement with such things as Wic. Yes I said Wic, not wiccan, which is yet another celtic term being corrupted for the english american language. Quick translation Wic = female witchcraft, Wicca = female witch, Wiccan = Female Withces. The true celtic translations, i guess just don't sound as impressive.

I am sure, there are similarities, due to the known facts, that way back in the day, Druids were teachers to all, lawyers, philosophers, doctors, etc. So it is pretty safe to assume that their methods would be reproduced by other cultures. However, not all the symbolism is the same, a lot of free masonry symbols are different, one of which is the pentacle. Druids, almost always do one point of two points down, free masons flip it. Which due to the onslaught of christian belief (since old christian belief did use a pentacle as well) has dubbed the inverted pentacle as EVIL...whether or not it is, is entirely up to the user.

So rockpuck, believe in the god you had before, believe in the scheme of the architects around and don't worry about finding a link. If there is one, when ready it will be divulged.

Bidoh Se`

Its about positioning, Druids and masons were near eachother so they influenced eachother *Eg. Norse and Greek mythology: Thor and Zues*