Barack Obama is he a member ?, page 6
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times


reply posted on 7-1-2008 @ 10:42 PM by Paloma
We are so past secret societies with Obama. He is related to Cheney AND Bush!

He is an eighth cousin to Cheney and distantly related to Bush. So he is absolutely in the Game don't you think?


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 08:39 AM by wu kung
reply to post by Arcane Demesne



Well said.
Honestly, I used to be a republican, until Bush came into office, then I switched my affiliation to independent.
But now, I wish I could switch back to republican just so I could vote for Ron Paul in the republican primary.
I think that he has the best skills to help get this country back on track.

And in all seriousness, I'm still a bit bitter that Bill Bradley lost the democratic primary back in 2000.
He was my man!





reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 08:56 AM by Arcane Demesne
reply to post by wu kung



Similar story here. I was too young to know what was going on when Bush1 won in '88. And still too young when Clinton was in office. But one thing I was old enough for, was to watch Bush2 completely destroy our country. Because of him, his father and what I had read about Clinton, my first party of choice was Independent, anything to get away from the two party system. I've recently switched to Republican to vote for Paul in the primaries, and will probably change my affiliation to Libertarian or Constitution Party before the general election.

As for Obama, and other members who have ties with nefarious leagues...I'm fairly certain that only Paul, Kucinich and Gravel are clean...though I may be wrong. But I'm fairly certain those are our only safe choices. And as a fan of capitalism (true freedom, not this overly regulated heavily subsidized crap we have now) my vote will be for Paul.


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 10:25 AM by RWPBR
reply to post by Masonic Light



Health care is already a right. Rights come with responsibilities. The responsibility that comes with health care is paying for it out of your own pocket. Whay should I have to pay your doctor bills?


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 11:25 AM by Arcane Demesne
Originally posted by Masonic Light

Why not? It certainly is a right in every other advanced, civilized nation in the world. Why not in the USA?


Just because you receive a service, doesn't make it a right.


Policemen don't grow on trees, but we have universal, public law enforcement. Teachers don't grow on trees, but we have universal public education. Firemen and librarians don't grow on trees either.


And all are underpaid because of it. Look at any private company (good or bad for society), they pay better. I'm pretty sure BlackWater employees are paid better than our service men (a shame really). Sports stars are paid rather handsomely (albeit way too much). And


Bingo! Bingo! Bingo! Give this guy a cigar and a pat on the back!

I agree with you 100%, friend. The Kucinich-Conyers bill, HR-676, provides universal single-payer health care by eliminating the private insurance industry (or "scam", whichever you'd prefer to call it).

The National Health Insurance Act would cover every single American with Medicare, while allowing physicians to continue operating in private practice. It would make health care a right of every American, and would be much more cost efficient than our current system, where the profits of private insurers account for 1/3 of all health care spending. As Kucinich recently noted, we're already paying for universal health care, we're just not getting it.


I understand the notion, but the point is that the Government would be nothing more than an overgrown insurance company. And that is not the purpose of Government. And don't get me wrong, Kucinich is my man, I wish he'd team up with Ron Paul already. But, as a young man just starting out in the world with tons of schools loans to pay back, I don't want to have to pay for a service that I'm not going to use.

I can see a vision like Dennis' coming to fruition as an optional tax once everything is straightened out, our government downsized and the income tax abolished. Until then, social programs will just add to the size and cost of government.


[edit on 1/8/2008 by Arcane Demesne]


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 11:55 AM by Arcane Demesne
reply to post by Paloma



Wow, that' interesting. Kind of how Bush is related to Colin Powell and John Kerry. Or was that disproven? I can't remember.


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 11:57 AM by Masonic Light
Originally posted by Arcane Demesne


Just because you receive a service, doesn't make it a right.


And just because you don't doesn't mean it's *not* a right. Many, if not most, advanced nations have written into law the right to public health care, just as we have written into the law the right to public education.

I understand the notion, but the point is that the Government would be nothing more than an overgrown insurance company. And that is not the purpose of Government.


But there would be several substantial differences. The insurance business is a for-profit industry; government is not. Government is already a non-profit insurance provider through its Medicare program, but right now only the elderly are covered by it. Under the National Health Insurance Act, it would simply extend coverage to everyone else.

And don't get me wrong, Kucinich is my man, I wish he'd team up with Ron Paul already.


I'm glad to hear it, and have myself been an activist for Kucinich in the last two elections. I basically agree with Ron Paul on his strict constitutionalism, civil liberties, and the war in Iraq. However, I have large differences with him in the economic sphere.

But, as a young man just starting out in the world with tons of schools loans to pay back, I don't want to have to pay for a service that I'm not going to use.


I can certainly understand that, as I was in the exact same position myself when I graduated. But a couple of points to ease your mind:

1. Everybody (me, you, all Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, and Socialists) are eventually going to need health care, and lots of it. Trust me: it's a service you *will* use. We're all going to grow old, get sick, and eventually die. The last thing we need at that stage is having to worry about where the money is going to come from. Also, the time will come when we have to take care of our parents, even if we ourselves our healthy. Same thing with our children.

2. The natioanl health program will actually be *less* expensive...you can take some of the money you would otherwise be paying for insurance premiums, and put it to pay off your college loans.

I can see a vision like Dennis' coming to fruition as an optional tax once everything is straightened out, our government downsized and the income tax abolished. Until then, social programs will just add to the size and cost of government.


Yet the cost of government is still far less than the cost of private health insurance. Dennis' plan would make this extremely affordable. There's already enough money in the system to cover everyone if we eliminate the insurance profits. Unlike the Canadian/European model, physicians would remain in private practice. Patients would have full choice (no more HMO networks). If their doctor says something needs to be done, Medicare covers it.

The only thing that would be "socialized" is the insurance aspect. Most of those currently working for private insurance companies would still have jobs in the administration of Medicare. Their payroll would be met by abolishing the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy and by ending the war in Iraq. This would also allow tax cuts for the middle class and working poor.


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 12:01 PM by RWPBR
reply to post by Masonic Light



I am not proud of the fact but the parents may be. Some of us take pride in providing for ourselves even if it is a hardship.

Brotherhood and socialism are not the same things...you easily confuse the 2.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by RWPBR]


reply posted on 8-1-2008 @ 12:08 PM by Masonic Light
Originally posted by RWPBR
reply to
post by Masonic Light



I am not proud of the fact but the parents may be. Some of us take pride in providing for ourselves even if it is a hardship.

Brotherhood and socialism are not the same things...you easily confuse the 2.



I'm not talking about socialism, I'm talking about providing health care to people who need it instead of exploiting sick and dying people for outrageous profits.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Masonic Light]
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