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posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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So to end my posting about the so-called "evil" Demiurge here, I'll add this:






Gnostic Anthropology


...Speaking quite frankly and straightforward, we will state:

Gnosis is a very natural function of the Consciousness, a Perennis et Universalis Philosophy.

Unquestionably, Gnosis is the enlightened knowledge of the Divine Mysteries, which are reserved for a certain elite. (but not for elitists)

The Word 'Gnosticism' encloses within its grammatical structure the idea of systems or methods dedicated to the study of Gnosis.


'Gnosticism' implies a coherent, clear and precise series of fundamental elements that can be verified through direct mystical experience:

Damnation, from a scientific and philosophic point of view.

The Adam and Eve of the Hebraic Genesis
The Original Sin and the fall from Paradise
The Mystery of Nahua Lucifer
The Death of the Myself
The Creative Powers
The Essence of the Salvator Salvandus
The Sexual Mysteries
The Intimate Christ
The Igneous Serpent of our magical powers
The Descent into Hell
The Return to Eden
The Gift of Mephistopheles



Only the Gnostic doctrines that entail the abovementioned Ontological, Theological and Anthropological bases are part of genuine Gnosticism.






posted on Feb, 16 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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The masonic meanings are invariably things that any right thinking person can subscribe to, not just masons.

I'm only talking about the sybols meanings, you quoted me the wrong way.
The question was do masons belive in the meaning of their symbols, you know the eye the pyramid, the 2 birds, and so on, I'm talking strictly about those, it seems you are avoiding my question.
You said that any one can suscribe to those, I don't care about that, because that does not answer my question, your answer was totaly off subject and it did not offer an answer.
I take it that it's YES, since you went around the subject.

[edit on 16-2-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 12:08 AM
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There's no such thing as "irrepayable [karmic] debts".

-Tamahu



I will repeat, that, in truth, the system of Karma and reincarnation, instituted by the demiurge, is in fact evil and, and, basically, forces the participant to collect irrepayable debts over their incarnations. By being born over and over again, and having your memory "wiped," of your past lives, you are coerced into making the same mistakes over and over, thus being forced to accumulate more and more bad karma and enslaving yourself in the seemingly never ending cycle of reincarnation.


As i had attempted to explain, when you are reborn into the physical, you do not have access to the memory of your past lives, therefor, you will inevitably make the same mistakes over and over because you did not have access to that memory, and inevitably incur more karmic debt. The reason you did not have access to that memory, is because the "demiurge," created the system to be that way. Even more sadisticly, the "demiurge," also created the concept of degradation and death, therefor, even if it was possible not to incur karmic debt, he still forces you to suffer and die inevitably. Nobody has ever lived without suffering and death in this world, as far as i am aware of. Therefor, it is, basically, impossible to live in this material world without incurring karmic debt, which, in effect, causes you to fall into the seemingly endless spiral of reincarnation in order to "pay off," that karmic debt, which inevitably causes you to incur more karmic debt through loss of your past life memories, thus forcing you to reincarnate again.




[edit on 17-2-2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
Whether you feel it is sweeping generalization or not, it is your opinion, and as i have said before, i feel you are entitled to your opinions. That does not change the fact that the above saying, as you, Masonic Light, and myself have pointed, is true.

No, neither ML or I pointed this out as you and anyone capable of scrolling back to his post can see that. What has happened is that I have learned another ritual difference between English and American freemasonry, and you have learned that although it can be argued that the ritual in the US is based on KST, freemasonry iself is too big for that sweeping generalization.

Get over it.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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DerekOneSeven17

Lets have a look an another example of Dr. Stanford's poor scholarship in the field of masonic history.


The term "Freemasons" is very revealing. Solomon had slaves building the temple. But some of the tradesmen were not slaves; they were free-masons. Likewise, the term "Master Masons" has the same significance. Those of that rank were the slave masters or the teachers...


I have already demonstrated to you that (speculative) freemasonry is regarded as having started in 16th and 17th century England and Scotland. I have also explained to you that masonic allegories are mythical stories, designed to impart a moral to the listener. It should be clear to you that the building of King Solomons Temple predates the birth of modern freemasonry by about 2 and a half millenia.

But Dr. Stanford has the definition of the term 'Freemason' wrong as well.

The most widely held origin of this comes from the medieval operative masons. These men who first started meeting together in lodges were the highly skilled men who worked in 'freestone'. This is the definition preferred by Masons of California, the official website of the Grand Lodge of California, and the Holden Research Circle, a masonic research group in Australia. There are many masonic references to this theory off-line in publications.

Whilst no-one would deny that King Solomons Temple was built by stonemasons (as was every other stone building in history), Dr. Stanford's implication that the masons of the time are the direct antecedents of modern speculative freemasonry has been shown to be extremely unlikely, and the attempt to link modern speculative freemasons with slavemasters of ancient times is a crude slur.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

The masonic meanings are invariably things that any right thinking person can subscribe to, not just masons.

I'm only talking about the sybols meanings, you quoted me the wrong way.

I wasn't quoting you at all, I was trying to give you a specific answer. Only the masonic meanings of symbols are used. For example, to many people a gavel may be a symbol of authority, but only to freemasons would it have the meaning I described earlier.


The question was do masons belive in the meaning of their symbols, you know the eye the pyramid, the 2 birds, and so on, I'm talking strictly about those, it seems you are avoiding my question.

Actually I think you're avoiding my answer. Lets try again. Masons are taught the meanings of the symbols (in a masonic context), but whether they choose to believe the meanings is entirely up to them.

Incidentally, for accuracy's sake, the pyramid is not a masonic symbol. I'm not sure what you mean by the 2 birds but I think they're something to do with the Scottish Rite, an appendent body of which I am not a member and I am not familiar with any additional symbols they might use.


You said that any one can suscribe to those, I don't care about that, because that does not answer my question, your answer was totaly off subject and it did not offer an answer.

I thought my answer was very much on subject and did offer an answer, sorry about that. Mind you, I think we're probably off-topic for the thread.



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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Actually I think you're avoiding my answer. Lets try again. Masons are taught the meanings of the symbols (in a masonic context), but whether they choose to believe the meanings is entirely up to them.

It's up to them a?

Well at least some of them do don't they.
What about you, I'm asking you, do you beilive in their representation?
Tell me what does the coat of arms represent with the 2 angels.
Here is the image I'm refering to.



Can you describe it for me.
Can you explain to me why do the angels in this picture have goat feet?


[edit on 17-2-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
Tell me what does the coat of arms represent with the 2 angels.
Here is the image I'm refering to.



Can you describe it for me.
Can you explain to me why do the angels in this picture have goat feet?

The image you have linked to is the coat of arms of the Antients Grand Lodge. It merged with the 'Moderns' in 1813 to create the United Grand Lodge of England. The modern UGLE coat of arms is not exactly the same, but does incorporate the features you are interested in, and a description can be found here along with a picture of the current coat of arms.

The figures on either side are not angels, but cherubs. You can read more about cherubs at Wikipedia, where they are described as


... winged creatures combining human and animal features.


The best description of cherubs is in Ezekiel, where he describes them as


...having a human-like body, with four arms, hands, and legs, but with some remarkable non-human features- that is, the head had four faces, a calf, an eagle, a lion and a human. It possessed two legs whose feet were cloven like a bull's.

www.meta-religion.com...



posted on Feb, 17 2007 @ 09:49 PM
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The figures on either side are not angels, but cherubs. You can read more about cherubs at Wikipedia, where they are described as


cherubs are just another class of angels and it's part of the 10 classes of
Hierarchy of angels
en.wikipedia.org...

Angel classes:
First Hierarchy:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones or Ophanim

Second Hierarchy:
"Dominions" or Dominations or Kyriotetes
"Virtues" or Dynameis
"Powers" or Exousiai

Third Hierarchy:
Principalities or Archai
Archangels
Angels


Furthermore the cherubs are the class of the fallen ones as the bible describes them their the ones kicked out of heaven, as they followed satan, they were previos asigned by god to protect the garden of eden but they followed satan as they turned agaist god.
This is described in the genesis book.
Satan was also part of the same class, as he is described with cloved feet.
From the bible.



You were an anointed guardian cherub, for I had appointed you.
You were on the holy mountain of God, you walked among the fiery stones.
From the day you were created you were blameless in your ways
until wickedness was found in you.
Through the abundance of your trade,you were filled with violence, and you sinned.
So I expelled you in disgrace from the mountain of God,
and banished you, guardian cherub,from among the fiery stones


So your cote of arms is represented by 2 fallen angels




[edit on 17-2-2007 by pepsi78]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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No, neither ML or I pointed this [Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple...] out as you and anyone capable of scrolling back to his post can see that.

-Trinityman


I will now show you exactly where you had both pointed it out.


Actually, in American ritual, the Temple is mentioned throughout each of the degrees, especially in the Second Degree, although the First Degree Lecture has many allusions.

-ML



...This legend is a part of the symbolism within the third degree.The symolism is only there to teach lessons in morality. Freemasonry is a system of morality, veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols and is waaaay bigger than just this one story.

-Trinityman



Just so you wont be confused, the Mirriam-Webster's Dicitonrary defines the word "base" ( in the context i assume it is used by Amitakh ) : the fundamental part of something . Therefor, i will paraphrase the original statement : "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..." as "The legend of building Solomon's Temple is a fundamental part of Freemasonry."

Taking into consideration the name (the organization is called the FREEMASONS), and the extense symbolism which is, according to Mackey from his book "The Symbolism of Freemasonry," is "the most prominent and most pervading of all the symbolic instructions of Freemasonry." ( www.sacred-texts.com... )


I will post this excerpt from his book about the basis of Solomon's Temple in Freemasonry, as well as it's "origin from the building of King Solomon's Temple."


Bearing in mind that speculative Masonry dates its origin from the building of King Solomon's temple by Jewish and Tyrian artisans, 53* the first important fact that attracts the attention is, that the operative masons at Jerusalem were engaged in the construction of an earthly and material temple, to be dedicated to the service and worship of God--a house in which Jehovah was to dwell visibly by his Shekinah, and whence he was, by the Urim and Thummim, to send forth his oracles for the government and direction of his chosen people.

Now, the operative art having, for us, ceased, we, as speculative Masons, symbolize the labors of our predecessors by engaging in the construction of a spiritual temple in our hearts, pure and spotless, fit for the dwelling-place of Him who is the author of purity--where God is to be worshipped in spirit and in truth, and whence every evil thought and unruly passion is to be banished, as the sinner and the Gentile were excluded from the sanctuary of the Jewish temple.

This spiritualizing of the temple of Solomon is the first, the most prominent and most pervading of all the symbolic instructions of Freemasonry. It is the link that binds the operative and speculative divisions of the order. It is this which gives it its religious character. Take from Freemasonry its dependence on the temple, leave out of its ritual all reference to that sacred edifice, and to the legends connected with it, and the system itself must at once decay and die, or at best remain only as some fossilized bone, imperfectly to show the nature of the living body to which it once belonged.



53* : This proposition I ask to be conceded; the evidences of its truth are, however, abundant, were it necessary to produce them. The craft, generally, will, I presume, assent to it.



Also, besides the excerpt itself, take notice of the footnote, where Mackey concludes that "speculative Masonry dates its origin from the building of King Solomon's temple..." and "the evidences of its truth are, however, abundant, were it necessary to produce them. The craft, generally, will, I presume, assent to it."


I feel this concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple.."



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 01:58 AM
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I feel this decisively concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..."


I have rebuked your assertions about Amitakh's work above, now, please, respond to my original statement that "Freemasons, as well as all monotheists, whether inadvertantly or not, worship Satan. " I assume, from your absence of an actual response or argumen, that you can make no argument.

I dont think you have said anything to actualy disprove my statement. It appears that you have consistently and falsely attacked Amitakh Stanford's work as the basis of your argument rather than even attempt to disprove my original statement.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I feel this decisively concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..."

Of course it is, the templars found something there, something that was not theirs, they took it and it made them rich, in other words it was a robery, come to think of it masonary is built on that, on a robery, what is noble about that I do not know.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I feel this decisively concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..."


To that I say "so what?" What does that have to do with ANYTHING conspiratorial? In fact, what does this entire thread have to do with conspiracy?????



I have rebuked your assertions about Amitakh's work above, now, please, respond to my original statement that "Freemasons, as well as all monotheists, whether inadvertantly or not, worship Satan. " I assume, from your absence of an actual response or argumen, that you can make no argument.


I answered it above. Worship is a conscious act. You CAN NOT inadvertently worship. Period.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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To this I say, "Fervent Masonic Desire To Rebuild Solomon's Temple Is The Driving Force Behind Events In Israel: Once Completed, Prophecy Will Be Fulfilled".

www.cephas-library.com... I like that masons use the religious tolerance as a good thing. contenderministries.org...



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 01:44 PM
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I feel this decisively concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..."

-DerekOneSeven17


This was in response to Trinityman who felt Freemasonry was not based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple.



what does this entire thread have to do with conspiracy?????

-Appak


Read the original post.



Worship is a conscious act. You CAN NOT inadvertently worship.

-Appak


You certainly can inadvertantly worship if the being you worship portrays himself as something he is not, or he is misrepresented by the texts, clergy, church heirarchy, etc.

Though you may not realize fully at the time, the "Grand Architecht," being you worship, is the cause of your suffering. You are inadvertantly worshipping the epitome of deceit and evil by worshipping the "Grand Architecht," whom you are revering as the epitome of ultimate love and goodness, when in fact, he has caused yourself and every inhabitant of this planet extreme, purposeless suffering. You can call the "Grand Arhcitecht," whatever you want, he is still the same being whether he is called, "Jehovah," "Allah," or "the devil, the epitome of evil."


As I had explained and asked previously, why would a loving god create the food chain, where animals are forced to kill eachother to survive? Look at all the rampant exploitation and injustice which is common place and seemingly normal.
Why would a loving god create physical matter that decays inherintly and forces unavoidable suffering and death?
Why would a loving god want you to suffer?
Why would a loving god create evil beings to exploit the innocent?
Why would a loving god create evil?
Why would a loving god create a universe so heavily based on exploitation? Just look at the food chain for example.
Why would a loving god want you do die?
Why would a loving god want Jesus to be harrased, ridiculed, and subsequently tortured to death?
Why would a loving god desire blood sacrafice, and command his followers to murder INFANTS (1 Samuel chapter 15)?
It is because the "god," of this world is clearly evil.




[edit on 18-2-2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
Read the original post.


I did. Lest I would not have responded.



You certainly can inadvertantly worship if the being you worship portrays himself as something he is not, or he is misrepresented by the texts, clergy, church heirarchy, etc.

Though you may not realize fully at the time, the "Grand Architecht," being you worship,


This statement verifies what I believed all along. You, like many, possess a fundamental lack of knowledge regarding Freemasonry.

I DO NOT worship the Great (or Grand) Architect of the Universe. That's one reference (of many) used in Masonic writing and ceremony. I worship at Mass...NOT at Lodge.

If you believe that Masons attending Lodge meetings are "worshipping" or that Freemasonry is a religion, you are mistaken. End of story.


when in fact, he has caused yourself and every inhabitant of this planet extreme, purposeless suffering. {snip} As I had explained and asked previously, why would a loving god create the food chain, where animals are forced to kill eachother to survive? {snip}


Apparently you have some issues with religion that have nothing whatsoever to do with conspiracy regardless what the original post says

I humbly bow out of this thread as it has nothing to do with conspiracy but has everything to do with a misconception of Freemasonry and an apparent disappointment and extreme hurt regarding organized religion.

Be well.

{edit for spellllllinnnngg}


[edit on 18-2-2007 by Appak]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I feel this decisively concludes that "Freemasonry is based upon the legend of the building of Solomon's Temple..."

Of course it is, the templars found something there, something that was not theirs, they took it and it made them rich, in other words it was a robery, come to think of it masonary is built on that, on a robery, what is noble about that I do not know.


Hahaha...

Poor effort, man. Unfortunately, your tenuous linkages come across more as axe-grinding, which seems to be something at which you are well practised indeed.

Scholars haven't been able to successfully link Freemasonry's lineage to that of the Templars, but we'll ignore that for the time being...

So, you logic dictates that, because the Templars "stole" something (which they found under the ground, thereby implicating all archeaologists throughout history as thieves as well), and because Freemasonry is connected to Templarism, then Freemasonry must be centralised around the values associated with robbery as well?

Bwahahahaha!!

You're not even trying anymore, are you...

Paraphrasing:

"Look, you have a cherub on one of your coats-of-arms! Cherubs are the same species as Satan. Therefore you are EVILLLLL!!!"

"Templars stole from the earth. Freemasonry is a fraternity like Templarism. Therefore, you are also robbers and EVILLLL!!!"



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I will repeat, that, in truth, the system of Karma and reincarnation, instituted by the demiurge, is in fact evil and, and, basically, forces the participant to collect irrepayable debts over their incarnations. By being born over and over again, and having your memory "wiped," of your past lives, you are coerced into making the same mistakes over and over, thus being forced to accumulate more and more bad karma and enslaving yourself in the seemingly never ending cycle of reincarnation.






Okay, one last time.


Why do you keep repeating yourself, instead of acknowledging that I'm addressing these claims each time you bring them up?


I've already shown that the accumulated karmic debts of all past lives are, according to Gnosis and Buddhism, payable in a single lifetime through Initiation.

They are not "irrepayable".

Our memories are "wiped" each life, because most people could not handle the memories of their past lives.


Either way, if people would listen to their conscience regardless, then they could create the merit which can lead them to the Path which allows one to remember their past lives:




The Great Rebellion


...Obviously, when the modern human beings hear anything about esoterism, they respond with terrible coldness, or they simply sneer, shrug their shoulders and indifferently turn away. This is because it is not in their plans, it is not of interest within their social circles, nor is it sexually titillating enough.

This psychological apathy, this frightening coldness is based on two things: first, the most tremendous ignorance; second, the absolute absence of spiritual inquietudes.

A contact, an electric shock is needed. No one gave this to them at the store, nor was it found in what they believed to be serious, least of all, in the pleasures of bed.

If someone were capable of giving an electric shock to an indifferent imbecile or a superficial woman, a spark in the heart, some peculiar reminiscence, an inexplicable something that is all too personal, then perhaps everything would be different.

However, something displaces that secret voice, that initial hunch, that intimate yearning. This possibly could be a stupid triviality, a beautiful hat in some shop window, a delicious dessert at a restaurant, an encounter with a friend which later holds no importance for us, etc.

Trivialities and nonsense, while having no particular transcendence, still have the power at any given moment to extinguish that first spiritual disquietude, that intimate longing, that insignificant spark of light, that hunch which unsettles us for a moment without our knowing why.

If those who are currently living corpses, cold sleepwalkers in nightclubs or simply umbrella salespeople in department stores on the avenue, had not suffocated their initial intimate uneasiness, they would at this moment be spiritual luminaries, adepts of the Light, real Humans in every sense of the word
...





Life in the physical Universe does not have to be mechanical.

Conscience and the Consciousness are not mechanical.





Also, the Demiurge Great Architect of the Universe, is in fact Lucifer:








(The "G" is also for "Gnosis" which in Hebrew is Daath, Yakin and Boaz are the Man and Woman)


However, this is not a bad thing:




Lucifer: Details


...Thus, with Lucifer, Satan was created. With Lucifer, Satan can be destroyed. With Lucifer we can become lost in the abyss. With Lucifer we can reach the highest heights of creation.

We should not be afraid of Lucifer. His potency is inside of our sexual glands but his essence is in everything created
...






This is in complete agreement with Tantric Buddhism:




A Survey of the Paths of Tibetan Buddhism - His Holiness the Dalai Lama






...The point is that due to the force of desire, you are able to melt the elements within your body. Consequently, when you experience the nonconceptual state, you should be able to direct your attention to meditation on emptiness. So, when you experience a nonconceptual state as a result of the elements melting within your body, if you are able to generate that understanding into a realization of emptiness, you will have achieved the feat of transforming a disturbing emotion, desire, into the wisdom realizing emptiness.

When you are able to employ this nonconceptual blissful mind in realizing emptiness, the result is a powerful wisdom that serves as an antidote to counteract and eliminate diusturbing emotions.

Therefore, it is a case of wisdom derived from disturbing emotions counteracting and eliminating them, just as insects born from wood consume it
...






It is taught that desire is the cause of suffering; and that transmuted desire is the end of desire which is the cessation of sufffering.

Or in other words: With Lucifer, the Sexual Potency-the Energy from which animals, Men, the Universe and it's Gods are born-we can be liberated from suffering.

With Lucifer we can also become Satanic.

Fornicators are Satanic no matter how much they believe in God, because fornicators cause suffering for themselves and for others.

Fornication(the orgasm) is the cause of ego-desire/suffering("The fall of Adam and Eve").


If we refrain from reaching orgasm during the Sacred White-Tantric act of the Karma-Mudra, then we can transmute desire and free ourselves from ourselves, as the "I" or the "myself" and animalistic-desire are interrelated.




So, we can sit around and theorize and complain, and remain bound by our karma and to the influence of the Demiurge Architect and Yaldabaoth's forty-and-nine demons, or we can free ourselves from this influence by transmuting, and ending desire:





"He who in this world has relinquished all sensuous pleasures, wanders homeless (for the welfare of the many), and has destroyed all desire (kama) for existence -- him I call a Brahman." - Buddha Shakyamuni







The Christ


...We must clarify that the work with the Grain has three completely defined lines.

First: to be born.

Second: to die.

Third: to sacrifice for the poor, Suffering humanity.

To be born is a completely sexual problem. To die is a matter of Sanctity. Sacrifice for humanity is Christ-centrism.

The Angel must be born within us. This Angel is born from his sexual Seed. Satan must die; this is a matter of sanctity. We must give our life in order for others to live. This is Christ-centrism.

The Hierophant Jesus really lived all the drama of the Passion, just as it is written. Even though we are really miserable worms of the Earth, we need also to live all the drama of the Passion
...








Regards



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
Therefor, it is, basically, impossible to live in this material world without incurring karmic debt,




It is possible for the Paramarthasatyas!



Actually, we can even stop incurring more debt, right now.


Again, see the teachings of Dzogchen(Ati Yoga) and Gnosis(Daath/Alchemy).




[edit on 18-2-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 12:21 AM
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To Appak :


I DO NOT worship the Great (or Grand) Architect of the Universe. That's one reference (of many) used in Masonic writing and ceremony. I worship at Mass...NOT at Lodge.

-Appak


According to the Wikipedia.org common consensus...

The Great Architect of the Universe (GAOTU, also Grand Architect of the Universe or Supreme Architect of the Universe) is a conception of God used by many...

...Masons themselves, such as Bissey[6], Leazer (quoting Coil's Masonic Encyclopaedia)[7], and Morris[8], assert that "the Masonic abbreviation G.A.O.T.U., meaning the Great Architect of the Universe, continues a long tradition of using an allegorical name for the Deity".


As i had said in my previous post, "you can call the "Grand Architecht," whatever you want, he is still the same being whether he is called, "Jehovah," "Allah," or "the devil, the epitome of evil." I assume you worship "Jehovah," considering you say you "worship at mass." "Grand Architecht," is an allegorical name for "Jehovah,", therefor you worship "Jehovah," as "Grand Architecht."

I did not attempt to make the claim that Freemasons worship at their Lodge, i believe you have misinterpreted what i wrote.

Again, i will reitterate that, Though you may not realize fully at the time, the "Grand Architecht," being you worship, is the cause of your suffering. You are inadvertantly worshipping the epitome of deceit and evil by worshipping the "Grand Architecht," whom you are revering as the epitome of ultimate love and goodness, when in fact, he has caused yourself and every inhabitant of this planet extreme, purposeless suffering. You can call the "Grand Arhcitecht," whatever you want, he is still the same being whether he is called, "Jehovah," "Allah," or "the devil, the epitome of evil."




To Tamahu :


I believe that i have answered you questions about Karma and it's relation to the evil Demiurge. Whatever you have suggested, i believe, will not remove the karmic debt you had accumulated, which is forced upon you, because you do not realize you are even accumulating it. As i had said, "By being born over and over again, and having your memory "wiped," of your past lives, you are coerced into making the same mistakes over and over

I will repeat, again, that, in truth, the system of Karma and reincarnation, instituted by the demiurge, is in fact evil and, and, basically, forces the participant to collect irrepayable debts over their incarnations. By being born over and over again, and having your memory "wiped," of your past lives, you are coerced into making the same mistakes over and over, thus being forced to accumulate more and more bad karma and enslaving yourself in the seemingly never ending cycle of reincarnation.





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