Chimpanzees had their own Stone Age!!

Link

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chimpanzees may have had their own "Stone Age," with evidence showing they were using stone tools to crack nuts 4,300 years ago, researchers reported on Monday.

They said their findings suggest that the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans started using tools more than 7 million years ago, when the two species started to evolve separately.

"It's not clear whether we hominins invented this kind of stone technology, or whether both humans and the great apes inherited it from a common forebear," said archeologist Julio Mercader of the University of Calgary in Alberta, who led the study.

"There weren't any farmers living in this region 4,300 years ago, so it is unlikely that chimpanzees picked it up by imitating villagers, like some scientists used to claim."

Pretty cool.


Wonder what they could be like lets say 10,000 years from now. If they are still in existence at that time. The human factor is the problem, sadly.

O yeah I forgot to ask, why are Chimpanzees stronger than humans? More muscle density or something? They are smaller and lighter than humans, that I'm for sure.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by deltaboy]

Oh, interesting!!!

Originally posted by deltaboy
They said their findings suggest that the common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans started using tools more than 7 million years ago, when the two species started to evolve separately.

"There weren't any farmers living in this region 4,300 years ago, so it is unlikely that chimpanzees picked it up by imitating villagers, like some scientists used to claim."

Interesting, though that argument isn't as convincing as it should be. Still, I want to look at the data mroe closely!

Wonder what they could be like lets say 10,000 years from now. If they are still in existence at that time. The human factor is the problem, sadly.

Unless they develop a more comple language and go through some evolutionary changes to their hands, they won't progress much. Their hands are not very deft (think of you trying to thread a needle (for example) while wearing a pair of very thick leather gloves and with your thumbs in a cast).

Originally posted by deltaboy
O yeah I forgot to ask, why are Chimpanzees stronger than humans? More muscle density or something? They are smaller and lighter than humans, that I'm for sure.

Chimpanzees are much stronger than humans are; 5-7 times as strong in
overall strength. Their bones are denser, and their skin is tougher
than ours. Denser bones means stronger muscle attachments which means greater strength. The density of their bones is one reason why chimpanzees stay away from water; they are not buoyant and they sink.
so if you get attacked by an enraged chimpanzee
swim for it

Originally posted by deltaboy

Wonder what they could be like lets say 10,000 years from now. If they are still in existence at that time. The human factor is the problem, sadly.

I do believe in evolution, not just for mankind but for all life forces. Apes will get smarter with time and eventually move into a bronze age and an iron age, etc etc etc....

I also believe that by then mankind will have moved on, just as others native to this world moved on as we got smarter.

It's just a pet theory so I won't bother you with the details.

Someday there will be cities like New York City that have been built by apes.

I don't think this is really a "stone age."

I mean during our stone age, we actually crafted tools from stone such as arrowheads, etc. These are simply rocks they selected for a use.

Plenty of other animals, including birds, have been observed using a great deal of creativity in finding "tools" in the environment, and even crudely altering them into a shape more useful, but none have even come close to the amount of craftmanship that went into even the most simplest human stone age tools.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I don't think this is really a "stone age."

I mean during our stone age, we actually crafted tools from stone such as arrowheads, etc. These are simply rocks they selected for a use.

Plenty of other animals, including birds, have been observed using a great deal of creativity in finding "tools" in the environment, and even crudely altering them into a shape more useful, but none have even come close to the amount of craftmanship that went into even the most simplest human stone age tools.

It was an age of apparent significant evolution in the use of tools, making it an official "stone age" or age of advancing knowledge.

Humans are known to evolve with our diet. If a specie of chimps began useing tools their diets change, if only a small portion began using tools and their diet change, increasing the amount of protien specifically, then the two groups will indeed diverge and create different lines of species. The average Mammle last around 2 million years or so before evolving or going extinct. Diet has changed our species big time.. the more protein we take in, the bigger our brain got the smarter we got untill homosapian came about. Makes you wonder a little if evolution will look favorably on us after looking at our McDonals styl diet....

Originally posted by Rockpuck
It was an age of apparent significant evolution in the use of tools, making it an official "stone age" or age of advancing knowledge.

But its not a created tool. Anyone with half a brain will figure that if there is a big rock over there and I cant get this blasted nut open, maybe I can bash it on the hard rock (or alternativly, bash the rock onto it).

If the chimps actually built some sort of laser to burn off the outer layer of the nut shell THEN we'd be talking a tool. But a stone is just a stone regardless of how its used.

Basic stone tool technologies:


1. Pebble Stone Tools- Unmodified except through use, picked up and discarded after use.

2. Oldowan/Chopper tools- Stones purposely selected for specific qualities and worked core/flake tradition. Most likely modified (flake) with wood and/or other degradable material.

3. Acheulian/Hand Axe Tools- More advanced (bifaced) and specialized.

Chimps have been known for years to employ basic Pebble tools as well as sticks. I have better sources in book form, basic info
source

Some chimpanzee communities are known to use stone and wood as hammers to crack nuts and as crude ineffective weapons in hunting small animals, including monkeys. However, they rarely shape their tools in a systematic way to increase efficiency. The most sophisticated chimpanzee tools are small, slender tree branches from which they strip off the leaves. These twigs are then used as probes for some of their favorite foods--termites and ants. It is likely that the australopithecines were at least this sophisticated in their simple tool use.

Birds and otters have been known to use these types of tools also.....hmmmm does Pebble tool use equal intelligence?


Here are some examples of "human" stone tool technologies:
www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/anth1602/PowerPoint/pcpp-21/pc-21.ppt
archserve.id.ucsb.edu...
Modern knappers

"Happy happy joy joy!"

London - (Rioters): The National Academy of Creationist Sciences Symposium in London has heard how chimpanzees in West Africa used stone tools to erect Africa's first Creationist museum off the Ivory Coast some 4,300 years ago.

www.thespoof.com...

Originally posted by merka
But its not a created tool. Anyone with half a brain will figure that if there is a big rock over there and I cant get this blasted nut open, maybe I can bash it on the hard rock (or alternativly, bash the rock onto it).

Neither were stone tools used by early hominids. They eventually evolved.

If the chimps actually built some sort of laser to burn off the outer layer of the nut shell THEN we'd be talking a tool. But a stone is just a stone regardless of how its used.

Have you developed this laser tool? If not, then that must mean you're no smarter than a chimp.

This is another example.

Chimps were recently found using spears to hunt smaller monkeys.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Chimpanzees in Senegal have been observed making and using wooden spears to hunt other primates, according to a study in the journal Current Biology.

Researchers documented 22 cases of chimps fashioning tools to jab at smaller primates sheltering in cavities of hollow branches or tree trunks.

The report's authors, Jill Pruetz and Paco Bertolani, said the finding could have implications for human evolution.

This is freakin' awesome
It's like we have gone back to the past and watch ourselves.
Humanity has the chance to see and observe how evolved through the ages, although it will take millions of years and no scientist will be alive so long to observe step by step the evolution.
It is very interesting, if we understand what made us evolve faster...

on the other hand this might simply be the result of learned behaviour.
they watched humans hunting chimps with spears and then followed by predating on smaller monkeys in the same fashion
lets hope no one shows them how to use a machine gun eh
www.youtube.com...

they watched humans hunting chimps with spears and then followed by predating on smaller monkeys in the same fashion

I wonder if any advanced civilization has ever shown us how to light and use fire. The story of Prometheus, if you got my gist...

the story of Prometheus comes a long long time after Humans first used fire
its actually a story about honouring the wishes of the gods
Prometheus gives mankind a lot more than just fire
although thats about the limit of most people who have heard that part of the story

Originally posted by Marduk
on the other hand this might simply be the result of learned behaviour.
they watched humans hunting chimps with spears and then followed by predating on smaller monkeys in the same fashion
lets hope no one shows them how to use a machine gun eh
www.youtube.com...

Yes, let's hope you don't show them archeology the british ways.......

CinLung
Yes, let's hope you don't show them archeology the british ways

Lets hope you stick to the topic instead of harras another member that you've had disagreements with in the past.

merka
Anyone with half a brain will figure that if there is a big rock over there and I cant get this blasted nut open, maybe I can bash it on the hard rock

[
Yes, and infact seagulls are well aware of this too.

But what is really intersting here is that we've found fossil/archaeological evidence of chimps using these rocks as tools. We've known for a long while that they do this. And now we have an archaeological site that is made up of these chimp 'tools'.

Actually, technically archaeology is the study of man's artifacts, should we have a different term for non hominid artifacts?

Ape-archaeology? Simarchaeology? Zooarchaeology?

Originally posted by mrwupy
I do believe in evolution, not just for mankind but for all life forces. Apes will get smarter with time and eventually move into a bronze age and an iron age, etc etc etc....

THe thing is, IF there was evolutionary pressure for them to do so, then they probably could. But they're not. I mean, realistically, its not allways best, in terms of fitness, to focus on 'brains'. Evolution isn't progressing up a pre-determined 'ladder', as they used to say. Its just a matter of populations responding to stresses from the environment.

djohnsto77
I mean during our stone age, we actually crafted tools from stone such as arrowheads, etc. These are simply rocks they selected for a use.

Indeed, that is a critical difference.
Though odd too, since we know that they will 'prepare' sticks for 'termite fishing', and apparently some groups will even prepare sticks, and gnaw on them to sharpen them to a point and use them as spears to catch prey.

posted by Nygdan
Actually, technically archaeology is the study of man's artifacts, should we have a different term for non hominid artifacts?

A hominoid is a member of the superfamily Hominoidea: extant members are the lesser apes (gibbons) and great apes.
A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae: all of the great apes.
A hominine is a member of the subfamily Homininae: gorillas, chimpanzees, humans (excludes orangutans).
A hominin is a member of the tribe Hominini: chimpanzees and humans.
A hominan is a member of the sub-tribe Hominina: humans and their extinct relatives.
A humanoid is a vaguely human-shaped entity.

Ape-archaeology? Simarchaeology? Zooarchaeology?

you're putting the "archaeo" in the wrong place
"Archaeo" always comes first, its from the greek word "archaios" meaning "ancient"
hence archaeoastronomy
archaeobiology
archaeoanthropology
archaeozoology