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Freemason - Secret Society????????

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posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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BY WAY OF AN APOLOGY

I blundered on to ATS last Thursday and joined a thread relating to Freemasonry. I was quite flippant and my limited knowledge of the Freemasons, largely drawn from popular culture and from web based sources, was apparent and drew rapid critique.

I was directed to some further reading on the subject by a Freemason on ATS who struck me as both intelligent and tolerant. I have spent the interim reading through the links he provided and have expanded upon them with my own research.

To be as succinct as possible:

I can find no secrecy. I’ve studied codes, oaths, newsletters, photographs, even the annual reports and accounts. I can find no wholesale wrongdoing.

I am a firm believer that there is no smoke without fire, so I looked for the possibility of covert operations behind Freemasonry.

For the exercise to be worthwhile I have only accepted primary sources of information that can be cross referenced and verified. I have not dealt with rumour or supposition.

I worked with the names of self-professed Freemasonry available on the web; obviously I do not have access to the names of all Freemasons, but as a rule I have found a ‘loud and proud’ attitude’ amongst Freemasons. I took a cross-section from all the degrees of Freemasonry and from all the countries where Freemasonry exists and examined those individuals closely.

So what did I find…NOTHING. On the whole I found men whose lives were politically and ideological admirable. Yes, there’s the odd exception but as so often is the case, the exceptions prove the rule. Based on the facts available, the Freemasons are exactly what they purport to be; a non-political, secular order of humanitarians.

The most damning evidence I could find of collusion amongst Freemasons was that F D Roosevelt while in office appointed a disproportionate amount of Freemasons, which could smack of favouritism.

It’s not much though is it?

Did I find any evidence at al of any conspiracy? Yes. I found strong evidence that there is a conspiracy to discredit Freemasonry and I hope to raise threads on that in the future as they intertwine with my other areas of interest.

I thank those ATS members for aiding me in the continuation of my education.

I offer the following quote which I am sure you’re all familiar with;

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such a time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Joseph Goebbels




posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:41 PM
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I am extremely rushed for time right now, but you should research the P2 lodge conspiracy, i am sure there are links to it



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Also, anyone one can purchase books by Pike, Hall or Churchward... The beliefs of the Mason's are well described by all of these authors. There is nothing Secret about this so-called "secret" society.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:58 PM
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Count Germails Lovechild

I have researched the P2 scandal and discouted them as they were obviously either a pseudo masonic organisation or actually using the the auspices of Freemasonry to discredit Freemasonry. I am actually researching the P2s in depth for that very reason and will hopefully post something about it in the near future on the general conspiracies board.

Many thanks for reading my thread.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Speaker of Truth

Absolutely and I have noted that Pike is held up as an example of 'the conspiracy' where in fact he has been repeatedly misquoted, or his name applied to the words of others.

Thanks



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Speaker of Truth

Absolutely and I have noted that Pike is held up as an example of 'the conspiracy' where in fact he has been repeatedly misquoted, or his name applied to the words of others.

Thanks


Another thing is, much of what Pike said has to be taken in context with the era he lived in as well. Now,I am not going to say that I agree with all of his views, but he certainly isn't what the anti-Masons try to make him out to be.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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This is exactly what I meant about the exception proving the rule. Every branch of life has its 'baddies', if all Freemasons were lily-white that would be telling in itself, but they are not. They are human, they make mistakes.

What I quickly realised during this exercise is that the even the slightest scrutiny of the anti-mason debate falls to nothing, it is completely without substance.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
This is exactly what I meant about the exception proving the rule. Every branch of life has its 'baddies', if all Freemasons were lily-white that would be telling in itself, but they are not. They are human, they make mistakes.



That's one of the faults with the whole "there's a masonic conspiracy" theory. The charges that anti-Masons level against Masons can be leveled against any religion, group or organization. Unless they are willing to suggest that possibly every religion,group and organization is involved in a "conspiracy to rule the world," the the anti-Mason's theories really don't hold water.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:46 PM
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I am a little surprised actually that there has been so little questioning of what I have said, given some of the posts on this site that I have read over the past few days I was expecting to have to defend my corner a bit more. I'm not sure if that is telling or perhaps there all still having their dinner or at work.

Thanks for your responses though, at least I don't feel as though I gone down like a lead balloon. All the work I've put in hasn't been in vain. Cheers



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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It's funny how one week on ATS, you can be embarrassed by the idiocy displayed by members... how you can say 'what are you thinking? Do you really consider what you are doing to be discussion, debate, and research?

And then the next... you get someone level-headed who does his homework, who restores some of your faith in humanity.

Kudos, friend. You get my vote.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:26 PM
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I honestly never expected to see a thread like this. I'm kinda dumbfounded.

Good on you for getting your hands dirty with some genuine research.

There have been a handful of occasions (early in my Masonic membrship)when I've stood back and examined the widespread virulence of anti-Masonry, and the passion of those who speak against it, and said to myself "Am I missing something??? Is it possible that there could be some truth to this stuff, and I've been spectacularly duped?". Needless to say, I've always been pleasantly reassured by examining the history of Masonry in earnest, to find that its honour as an organisation is absolutely intact. Even moreso, I look at the men around me in Lodge, and consider the positive impact that they've had on my life and in the lives of others (eg: orphans, widows, burn victims, sick kids, and the generally underprivileged).

I, personally, am glad that the P2 incident occurred. It serves to demonstrate to ALL Masons the consequences of engaging in behaviour that is converse to our most basic beliefs - instant dismissal from the brotherhood.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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Kilgoretrout gets my 'Way Above" vote for having the balls to do some reading and having a ming of his own.

Good for you.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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I'm just about to sign off for the night now as it's past my bedtime and just wanted to thank you all for the replies to my thread. It's been a pleasure.

All the best



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
BY WAY OF AN APOLOGY

I blundered on to ATS last Thursday and joined a thread relating to Freemasonry. I was quite flippant and my limited knowledge of the Freemasons, largely drawn from popular culture and from web based sources, was apparent and drew rapid critique.

I'm not sure if you really have anything to apologize about. You have joined the forum at a time when there was a certain amount of silliness going on, but I don't recall you getting sucked in to that, and as far as I can tell your posts have always been pretty balanced.

However I thank you for your comments and I look forward to your part in what seems to be an increasing likelihood of a period of sensible and productive discussion all round.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 07:37 PM
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I prefer to say that Masonry is not a secret society, but a society with secrets. Most of those secrets (handshakes and what have you) don't have anything to do with non-Masons, and in no way what so ever will ever pertain to you.

The ways of recognition is used to recognize others like your self of the same degree, so that when your in strange lands and you meet a fellow Mason, you can be assured that he will neither take advantage of you or lead you astray.. because that is the oath of the lodge and the fraternity, to look out for brothers like your self.

Taking over the world is impossible. It has never been done, is not being done, will never be done.

One group could not take over the world.

You could be the richest man in the world, and you cannot take over the world.. because money buys obedience, but not loyalty, and without loyalty you command nothing. Armies and empires thrive on ideology, culture and innovation, not a pool of wealth. These are the things that conspiratress don’t seem to understand, or fail to be able to comprehend. I see the usual people who decide that Masons of all groups that could, are taking over the world.. are typically completely ignorant with the apparent education of a high schooler. It would be one thing to study the influence a fraternity can have among men, but to say that a fraternity can completely dominate every aspect of the world is completely ridiculous. Many groups, like say the Catholic Church or extreme Islam, or the country of America it's self may try and control aspects of society and international societies but the population of devoted followers, nationalist and zealots is far outstanding compared to the mere membership of some 5 million Masons.

One would have to assume that Masons are all rich. I know several multi millionaires in our lodge. I also know I make in a year what other make in a week. I know that there are far more middle class and lower middle class brothers then there are rich brothers.

Masonry was put on the radar by the religious extremist and ultra conservative Catholics and Protestants, subjected to ever lasting suspicion because of the fear that a group of free thinking men could challenge the very foundation that the Church's of the world have built their power base upon - the complete devotion of its members, and the fear that straying otherwise would lead to ever lasting damnation. Masonry, because we do not allow strangers to walk into meetings, or because we care enough to keep traditions the same, and as pure as possible, with the up most respect for our ancestry and our history, we have been subjected to speculation into our motives.

Many religions hold ceremonies and they hold rituals that go back thousands of years in nature, back to Pagan roots. Baptism is required in most churches, including the Catholic Church. To dip your head in water blessed by a priest to wash away your mortal sins. That is no more odd then the rituals that Masonry practice, the difference is that they are different, and because they are unknown they have an aura of mysticism around it that lead to speculation into occult worshiping or ill intentions, when they are nothing like that at all. It is a simple misunderstanding, it is a ignorance in not seeking to understand and it is not being able to accept that not every one conforms to the same kind of rituals or activities that every one else would deem a norm. The way it is carried out, with the deepest respect to history and brotherhood, seems awkward and backwards, when we really have just kept our origins alive instead of diluting them, destroying their brilliance and polluting their meaning by omitting and admitting words and practices.

But I am glad that someone had the respect to truly try and read up on the history of the group he posts about. Many others will slander away with out regards to the traditions that we live by. Masons do not come onto this board and defend their fraternity for no reason, it is not disinformation but information, information that needs to be spread to stop the ever escalating hostilities that come from the ignorant masses against us. If no one is to correct the wrongful lines of thought then our people could literally be endangered.. there is nothing more dangerous then ignorant people massed together to fight an ideology in which they consider crude and different, wrong and satanic, because their thought processes can lead to situations that could physically endanger the organization to which we belong. Never forget your past. Those who fear, who are paranoid about what they cannot understand, those who hate out of spite, those who do not give others the chance to live a free life by their choosing have forever in history been the assailant in mass murders, inquisitions, executions, crusades, theocratic despots, torture and murder in the name of God and the right way of life.

We need to work to stop such Neolithic thought processes, to end discrimination against those who live differently or believe differently then the general population. Those who speak out against not just Masonry, but any organization who practice a different way of life need to sit back and try and understand, try and learn the history, try and accept. We can only truly be free men when everyone can at least respect the rights of their fellow man to do as they wish, believe as they wish, practice as they wish. Ignorant hatred has only ever held our species back.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 07:04 AM
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Kilgore

Thank you for being will ing to not only do your ouwn reasurch but reach yourouwn informed conclusions.

You get my vote for way above for restoring my faith in the persute of truth.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 07:04 AM
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double post sorry

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Masonic Student]



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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It is funny, I am sort of a conspiracy buff and this led me to investigate freemasons. After several years of casual study I discovered a coworker, that I had known well for a long time, was a mason. I spent the next six months grilling him on every aspect of masonry I could think of. I kept looking for the big evil surprise, the wealthy inner elite who was waiting to grab my money and my soul. I finally joined last year and have been extremely pleased with what I have found. It seems the biggest problem masonry has is that nobody can believe that a group of guys would go meet every month just to do good. The amount of money that goes through our lodge is way smaller then I expected, and it gets directed to things like buying a bicycle for a local elementary school for a reading contest prize, or a family of a soldier wounded in action.
It is just to hard for people to believe that in this day and age there are people who just want to help their fellow humans. Sadly there are those who join for business contacts other less than honorable reasons but these are far fewer than people might imagine.

Sigh.... I guess now that a few masons have responded to this refreshing thread its going to be another conspiracy.



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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Yes Redpill...

Make a post about Masons taking over the world and stealing souls to give to the Devil or some nonsense and youll get 10 pages of people professing they understand the inner workings of Masonry.

Make a post about real Masonry and no one will bother to post or respond, except given the most active Masons on the board.



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