The Nazi's {Shock to the system}

Originally posted by otesterIs it not possible that the Zionists leaders told fellow prisoners to tell this lie so they could get into palestine, which was their previous goal?

no, it is not. As I said, there are too many mountains of evidence proving it happened.

What government is hiding what the Nazis did?

Lastly, what is going on today with regards to 9/11, 7/7 etc is nothing akin to the holocaust and the atrocities the Nazis committed against Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, ...humanity. Comparing terror attacks, be they islamist operated or gov't operated to the systematic destruction of humans for being different is a bit ridiculous.

no, it is not. As I said, there are too many mountains of evidence proving it happened.

What if that were all lies? Americans had access to the German typerwriters, Nazi stamps etc. after the war.

What government is hiding what the Nazis did?

Zionists and their allies.

-----

Also about those bodies you saw, the buried ones in the pits were people that died of typhus, Patholigists had been examining them, no Zyklon-B reminants found. 70,000 people died of typhys thought the camps lifetime. The malnutrition was a results of supply lines as said by others earlier and even the German population at some points were getting less than the prisoners.

Originally posted by otester
What if that were all lies? Americans had access to the German typerwriters, Nazi stamps etc. after the war.

What government is hiding what the Nazis did?

Zionists and their allies.
Also about those bodies you saw, the buried ones in the pits were people that died of typhus, Patholigists had been examining them, no Zyklon-B reminants found. 70,000 people died of typhys thought the camps lifetime. The malnutrition was a results of supply lines as said by others earlier and even the German population at some points were getting less than the prisoners.

wow.
Since it is clear that you are completely misled in what happened I will simply tell you that you can discount the thousands and thousands of witnesses, survivors, photo and video documentation, paper trails, admissions by former nazis etc and I will still fall back on the tales my sister's mother in law told us before she died. She survived several of the worst camps, she was moved around a bit, she saw everything. she lived thru it all and then was shot several times and left for dead by her neighbors who had moved into her home in Poland. The german gov't apparently believed her too as they paid her reparations until the day she died.

I strongly suggest you take a trip to visit one of the camps or head to the holocaust memorial in D.C. and listen to the stories the survivors tell. You are following a path that is paved on hatred, denial and ignorance.

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by otesterIs it not possible that the Zionists leaders told fellow prisoners to tell this lie so they could get into palestine, which was their previous goal?

no, it is not. As I said, there are too many mountains of evidence proving it happened.

What government is hiding what the Nazis did?

Lastly, what is going on today with regards to 9/11, 7/7 etc is nothing akin to the holocaust and the atrocities the Nazis committed against Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, ...humanity. Comparing terror attacks, be they islamist operated or gov't operated to the systematic destruction of humans for being different is a bit ridiculous.

holy $hit, did i miss something or did i have a brain fart?? what is 7/7? sorry for the ignorance, i porbably already know but i'm just forgetting.

july 7 london bombings

you know, the mass extermination of peoples for their race, religion, oh, wait, no that was a terrorist attack.


ah, same thing.

Originally posted by otester
I typed "forge" in dictionary and thats what it spewed out. Anyways, this isn't a spelling bee.

No otester, this isnt a spelling bee but, we are communicating by written English.

Correct spellings etc. aid our communication.

There's no point writing something only you understand.

The rest of us are sat here saying "What "

Sorry to labour the point but it's a bit of an obsession of mine. Probably because the rest of my family can't spell

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

Originally posted by otester
What if that were all lies? Americans had access to the German typerwriters, Nazi stamps etc. after the war.

An interesting hypothesis otester.

Have a look here

Or here

16 miles of shelves, 30 million files, 17.5 million people.

The sheer scale of it is incredible.

They must have been pretty busy in the last 60 years.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!






[edit on 14-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Those pictures, being those of the bodies, do not prove they were gased. The malnutritioned people could have been that way due to lack of food, from bad supply lines.

Another site: www.ihr.org...

after six decades of highly restricted access.

Why was it 'restricted'? Brewing it up for the last 60 years so it's ready to be released?

-----

Also looking at WW2 altogether, all sides did a holocaust, around that time.

Western Allies = 2 million Russians, indirect but full-knowledge of what would happen.

Eastern Allies = 40 million of own people + 10 million Ukraine, including the 2 million above.

Germany = Supposedly 2 million, official number as of now.

Here's an interesting site Buchenwald

Plenty of original photos.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

Originally posted by otester
Why was it 'restricted'? Brewing it up for the last 60 years so it's ready to be released?

The answer is in the article

But historians and the general public have been barred from access, with Germany reportedly the main force in recent years blocking the archive's opening on privacy grounds.

Basically the German government have claimed that they are protecting the privacy of the people named in the files.

I would suggest that it has more to do with being embarassed at the sheer scale of what happened.

It could also be argued that, since access was restricted to the ICRC so they could trace people who had been through the camp system, this enabled the German government to control the number of claims for compensation. The longer you hang onto the files the fewer people there are to make claims.

This tactic has been used by many governments to avoid paying up.

Most recently in the UK, miners who worked for the nationalised coal industry were trying to claim compensation for lung disease caused by their working conditions. A lot of employment records could not be found, so their claims were void, or if found it was too late and the person was dead.

You claim that this "restriction" is to give them time to perpetrate a hoax.

I tend to discount that.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!




[edit on 14-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Yeah, 7/7, 9/11, Madrid and Bali were made by the same people who made the holocaust, the government. Wake up.

I feel sick that we are having to argue that this happened. For fact read the declassified reports made by the British Army in 1944 and see the attached for aerial photos taken when the Allies were planning a bombing run against IG Farben which was situated near to Auschwitz.

www1.yadvashem.org...

Read reports of the US declassification of documents about their knowledge of transportations.

www.fas.org...

In fact go to somewhere like Corfu, as I have, where there was once a thriving Jewish community until all 2000 of them were rounded up and taken boat to mainland Europe and then on to the camps. Only 121 survived. There are statistics like that for every town in Europe that the Nazis touched.

Go to Auschwitz, see the documents that the Nazis themselves kept. The Nazis were great administrators and kept records of everything and though much was destroyed enough survived to give a very clear picture.

There was a recent series on here in the UK about Auschwitz and a book to accompany it. Where survivors actually recount hearing the bombers going over head and wishing they would drop the bombs on them because anything was preferable to their current situation.

As so many have already said the evidence is irrefuable and to argue numbers is pedantic in least pathetic at most. Haven't you got anything better to do Otester?

The reason that the Holocaust was so rapidly denied post World War 2 was because so many people made money out of it. IG Farben - check it out on Wikipedia for one, there was a trial. These industrialist used slave labour, people that were worked to death for profit - a company that was owned in part by ooh Standard Oil....do you think they may have an agenda to convince people that there were no atrocities. Also BMW, Siemens, Daimler-Benz, Ford and Volkswagen. Do you think that it may benefit them if they can convince the uneducated and the ignorant that it never happened that it may prevent them ever to acknowledge there guilt or to admit to just how much money the death of thousands, millions actually helped them become the world manufacturing leaders that they are today?

See the following article about the industralists role in WW2

www.guardian.co.uk...

Then ofcourse theres all the possessions that were stolen from individual jews etc, this amounted to millions upon millions. Look at the pictures of the piles of suitcases, clothing, spectacles, hair etc etc etc.

Otester get a grip, do some real research, grow a brain and use it.

Well Trout "my old fruity", you make a valid point about the involvement of industrialists in slave labour .

I recommend reading Tom Bower's "Blind Eye To Murder" ISBN 0 386 06422 3. I have a copy and it makes fascinating reading.

I'll have a look about posting some of it here.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

otester you posted a link to the "Institute of Historical Review" to back up your position.

Have a look at this thread on ATS.

Pay particular attention to the posts by Majic.

They explain the IHR so much better than I can.

Also read the final post on the thread by Sceptic Overlord.

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

[edit on 15-2-2007 by the smoking beagle]

One thing i think should be said, is that absolutely nothing should be banned from being discussed or denide, i have never doubted that the Holcaust happened UNTILL they started jaoling people for denying it.

Like most of you, i have seen old film footage of the death camps, and i fully accepted them as undeniable proof, but now i have to say that if any one try's to ban free speach, then they have something to hide, an old saying goes thus - those one who fear critisism, show they deserve it.

I am not saying the Holocaust did not happen, what i am saying is why are some people afraid of some one disbelieving it?

Free speach is the right to say anything, and not just the right to say what some one else says you can say. Every public denial of the Holocaust is a God given apportunity to proove some one wrong in front of witness's with the facts, so why imprison them.

There have been many many attempts at Genocide down the ages the most recent probably being Rwander, so the Question is, why is it only illegal to deny the Jewish Holocaust?

It just does not seem to add up to me.

Originally posted by Minger
I am not saying the Holocaust did not happen, what i am saying is why are some people afraid of some one disbelieving it?

Denying the holocaust happened, when there is so much proof that it did, is more of an attack against all those that suffered than simply a disbelief of the evidence. Those people out there who say it didn't happen are the same people who would do it all over again if they could. Making it a crime to deny it happened is a way of making sure it is never forgotten and, more important, never repeated.

Crakur

Just to say well put - putting down those that deny the holocaust is not just about saying look at the evidence, it is also about the respect for those who died and those that survived - many who survived suffered their whole lives from the guilt of surviving. When you have lost your mother, father, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, grandparents and friends how do you recover from that?

Yes we should all question the accounts that officials give to us, but that doesn't mean agreeing with the opposition just for the sake of it. There are greater truths to be discovered and we should use our brain power to unearth those. These events occurred over half a century ago and have been well documented and with declassification many documents from the period are now available that offer a fuller picture.

As I said in an earlier post, those who deny the holocaust who go to trial etc are very rarely simply there because of their opinions but because they are generally deemed criminal in other ways - for example for incitement to violence. Not every story hides a conspiracy. This is not a question of stifling free speech and it is naive to think so.

Searching for truth is not simply about opposing the status quo for the sake of it - two wrongs don't make a right. Look into every angle, be sure of informations, sources and your instincts before you accuse people of lying, don't become the part of the problem yourself.

Originally posted by the smoking beagle
Here's an interesting site Buchenwald

Looking at that site there are no actual signs of gassing, only malnutrition.

otester you posted a link to the "Institute of Historical Review" to back up your position.

Have a look at this thread on ATS.

Pay particular attention to the posts by Majic.

They explain the IHR so much better than I can.

Also read the final post on the thread by Sceptic Overlord.

Wasn't to back it up, just posting because it covers this topic.

Even if these sites are made by neo-nazis fags doesn't mean that their is no room for questions.

Denying the holocaust happened, when there is so much proof that it did, is more of an attack against all those that suffered than simply a disbelief of the evidence. Those people out there who say it didn't happen are the same people who would do it all over again if they could. Making it a crime to deny it happened is a way of making sure it is never forgotten and, more important, never repeated.

Doesn't this just open up a debate to what holocausts should be considered an attack if discussed? Also the way the world is running at the moment it could as well happen again.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by otester]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by otester]

[edit on 15-2-2007 by otester]

it is happening. In Darfur and it has happened around the globe since WWII.

Sorry Smoking Beagle just seen your response to my earlier post - many thanks for the book recommendation I'll check it out.

Keep up the good work Old Chap.

Toodle Pip