It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

9/11 Conspiracy | The Newbie Thread

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 02:02 AM
link   
Ok guys - I am a newbie to the world of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories... I have known of the existence, and some of the pieces of the theories, but have never really delved into it, until now.

There are likely many more 9/11 Newbies like me that are just now coming onto the scene, and are simply overwhelmed by the amount of speculation, research, and theory already in place on this topic. My intent is for this thread to become a launch pad of sorts for newbies, like me, that do not know where to begin.

To The Experts:
I realize that there is a TON of heated debate and disagreement over many points of this topic - PLEASE do not start bickering here. This thread should not contain arguments, rebuttals, or flaming of any kind. Simply state YOUR overall synopsis, and leave it at that. Newbies will likely have things to ask, and I encourage each of you to answer with your own opinions. Keep in mind that this forum is on strict TAC enforcement - please do not bring unpleasantries upon yourself.

To The Newbies:
Please feel free to ask the experts about anything that you wish to know more about. This thread exists for you. However, when posting questions, please use your best judgement to avoid starting a debate or flaming match between the "experts." All questions posed should be specific, and to the point, so that they can be easily and quickly answered by our "experts" without further need for discussion. If you become interested in a topic, and wish to discuss, then leave the newbie nest and visit one of the threads on that topic.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Forum Reference Guide | Links to Various Sub-Topics
Forum Policy Statement | All Newbies Please Read
Strict TAC Enforcement | The 3 Amigos Mean Business!
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Keep it civil and objective, and this thread could become a great asset to those of us that do not know where to begin with 9/11. I am really looking forward to getting involved in the 9/11 debates outside this thread.


~DMN~

[edit on 12-2-2007 by damajikninja]




posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 02:27 AM
link   

You have voted damajikninja for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month


Be prepared!

This sounds like it is a very ambitous undertaking. It sounds like it would be a good idea as well!

I think that it would encourage more open discussion of the topics here by newer members who might have otherwise been intimidated by the sheer volume of material within this forum.


It is apparent that you have thought this out well in advance, and I see this as a positive effort on your part to deny ignorance.




posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:14 AM
link   
Well, thank you Sir! I do understand that this is like giving matches to kids next to a powder keg, but if everyone behaves, it could go well.


Thx again!



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:20 AM
link   
Good idea for a thread. I will present my own synopsis, as short and to the point as possible.

First and foremost I must stress the importance of objectivity. When you look at any problem, situation or scenario you must view it without any prejudice or bias and be open-minded. At the same time you should remain skeptical, do not blindly believe a source of information unless it agrees with your own sense of reason.

I’ve done tons of research and looked into various aspect of the event. I have found that there are hundreds of minor acts and events that suggest that there is a cover-up. There are just too many co incidents that suggest there is some sort of conspiracy. However, unfortunately, I do not know the exact extent or all the details of this conspiracy. Therefore I am agnostic on much of the details surrounding 9/11 and hope a new objective and independent investigation will be conducted in the near future.

And lets get one thing straight, if 9/11 was an inside job, I do not believe the entire USA government is “in on it”. I believe such an operation would only be carried out by some sort of underground black-op squad outside the knowledge of most government officials. I also believe you can pretty much get anything if you have sufficient funds and resources, the world is corrupt.

I will now present the main reasons I believe 9/11 involves some sort of conspiracy.

1. The motive

I am highly suspicious of the Bush Administration for the simple reason that 9/11 has served their agenda to such an extreme extent. The event enabled them to pursue their geo-political goals, 9/11 opened up for the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq (whom neither really had nothing to do with 9/11, the USA now operates with a much stronger military force in the middle-east. Without 9/11 Bush would most likely never have been re-elected, the patriot act would not have been passed, hebeus corpus would not have been suspended. This is a large topic in its self, however I will not elaborate any further in this thread.

2. The pentagon incident

Several parts bother me in regards to the pentagon incident.
1. The way flight 77 hit the building, completing a 280 degree turn to specifically hit the newly renovated and reinforced side of the pentagon.
2. Where is flight 77? Maybe flight 77 did completely disintegrate on impact; I really don’t care if a 757 hit the building or not. However, if it did hit the building, why have we not been shown any video evidence? There are supposedly 88 cameras in the near vicinity surely at least a few must have captured the entire incident. Surely the pentagon must have their own security cameras that would have captured flight 77 hitting the building. Why do none of the video evidence released show a 757? Rather suspicious.

3. The Stand-down order


Testimoy of Norman Mineta on about Cheney's actions is revealing. Mineta said he arrived at the Presidential Emergency Operating Center (PEOC) at 9:20 a.m. where he observed the Vice President talking to a young airman.

Mineta: There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out.The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?"

And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant"


What was this stand down order testified by Norman Mineta? Was it to allow flight 77 to hit the pentagon or was it due to something else? In either case, why has this not been elaborated on any further?



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:20 AM
link   
…continued.

4. The collapse of the towers

No proven scientific model has yet been provided to explain the collapse of the WTC Towers. In addition the new theories that have been presented (including the pan cake theory) has used flawed science in the fact that they begun with a conclusion and worked their way back! The conclusion being that “fire did it”, this is not science folks, come on! Why has no other theories even been considered?

Journal of 911 Studies

The official story has not accounted for the collapse of the Twin Towers.

5. The collapse of WTC 7

This is the main reason I started looking into 9/11 conspiracy. How does a steel framed building, suffering from minimal damage and fires (yes, until proven otherwise, this claim remains true) collapse completely symmetrically at near free fall speed the way WTC 7 did? This boggles my mind!

Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?

It also boggles my mind that this building was not even mentioned in a single sentence by the 9/11 commission report. Nor was it sufficiently covered by media.

The official story has not accounted for the collapse of WTC 7.

6. Hot spots under WTC 1, 2 and 7

For weeks after 9/11 the basements of WTC 1, 2 and 7 were measured at more than 1200 Farenheit (650+ C). What caused this? Is it a coincident that they only appear at WTC 1, 2 and 7 (buildings suspected to be demolished) and not the other surrounding buildings (WTC 3, 4, 5, 6)?

Thermal Hot Spots: Fingerprint of a WTC Demolition

The official story has not accounted for these thermal hot spots.

I will leave it at that. There is far more information out there, you must do your own research. Good luck.

Thanks,
Vlad

[edit on 12-2-2007 by VladTheImpaler]



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 07:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by damajikninja
My intent is for this thread to become a launch pad of sorts for newbies, like me, that do not know where to begin.
[edit on 12-2-2007 by damajikninja]


A very good place to start is Dave Von Kliest's documentary In Plane Site. All the footage from that docu was taken from the Live tv coverage of the day of 9/11.

video.google.com...

There are many more documentaries that are worth a look also, such as Loose Change 911, many of them are available on the internet.

911blimp.net...

Greatest Lie ever sold is worth a look also, it could have been edited down more but still worth watching

video.google.com...

If you want more in depth discussion of how the towers fell and why explosives had to be used etc, then you can search for speeches by David Ray Griffin. If you search google videos ond youtube.com for 911 lies you will get alot of results.
another good clip on 911 in 2 parts
video.google.com...

video.google.com...

good luck researching. After you do realise that 9/11 was the work of the government then this will lead you to asking how much power do the criminal elements have over your government and other governments worldwide (London 7/7 bombing was the work of the british government), and you will be asking what else the governments are involved in. The governments are basically controlled by big businesses.

here is another clip you should check out, it isn't about 9/11 but it tells of the same people who control the governments, the people who control the Federal Reserve (a private bank)
www.youtube.com...


[edit on 12-2-2007 by golddragnet]



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 11:11 AM
link   
excellent posts guys!
This is exactly the kind of stuff I wanted to see from you guys. I will have to check out some of this stuff... hope we get some more newbies in here as well...



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 11:19 AM
link   
My belief,
Is that the US Was very educated on when, where and how the attacks were going to occur.

The WTC's were elephants, costing money and would cost unforseen amounts of money being brought down through construction due to the massive asbestos issues.

They saw sept11 as an opportunity.

1. To hurt the citizens, and make them want revenge, giving bush Iraq.
2. To bring down the towers, cheap
3. To force citizens to sacrifice there freedoms for a form of 'leadership'

So, once they became aware the mission was approaching. They laden the WTC's with demo,
Had it primed at WTC7
Once the terrorists hijacked the planes and flew them in, creating such a sense of shock and awe in the community, they pulled them towers down, to make sure it made a lasting impression on the people.

Cheney ensured Bush would be OUT of the city, giving him authority to ensure no military jocks interfered ' thus the stand-down'


In saying that,

I beleive the Pentagon is definately a staged event.
A plane didnt hit, but something happened.
Why? I havent a clue yet..
But there's definately a reason, only those behind the walls know.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 01:41 PM
link   
You have voted damajikninja for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Great idea damajikninja!!! A starting point for new guys is a good plan. The sheer amount of info / disinfo floating about makes it kind of intimidating to even start looking. Hopefully this will help.

I don't have anything solid in my mind about what actually happened but like Vlad said, the way the buildings came down just does not add up. I'm an engineer and i still can't accept any of the theories justifying why they came down like that.

And the same deal with the pentagon. Why is there no video?? This is just simply crazy talk. This lack of co-operation tells me that something damn strange was going on.

Anyway great thread, i'll sit and watch what the more informed members have got to say.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 03:52 PM
link   
Your post was dead on although there are many other things that point to an "inside job" such as the put options on airline stock, missing trillions from the pentagon, Marvin Bush (GW's little brother) in charge of WTC security, Larry Silverstein's recent purchase of the WTC complex (even though it was a huge money loser and would cost billions to clean the
asbestos throughout the buildings), no plane wreckage or bodies in PA, cell phone calls that couldn't possibly been made and so many other things. It is a sad day in America when people and more importantly the media, don't have the courage to question. Good post.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 05:55 PM
link   
As Vlad says,

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
First and foremost I must stress the importance of objectivity. When you look at any problem, situation or scenario you must view it without any prejudice or bias and be open-minded. At the same time you should remain skeptical, do not blindly believe a source of information unless it agrees with your own sense of reason.


I’d sat use common sense, but 9/11 was not common and deals with thins most of us know little about. The footing’s treacherous, but things can and have been figured out. Most tips here point to the physical evidence, which has been interpreted in so many bad and wrong ways that much of what you’ll find is deeply tainted. So my first tip is entertain anything, believe nothing 100%. IF you choose to start with 911 IPS, next read these critiques:
Me: In Plane Sght or just Plain #e?
Oil Empire: Bad Jokes Hidden in Plain Sight

Good evidence to start with – all links go to my own writings, but these are sourced:

1) Motives: What might Bush and co. have gained from letting/making 9/11 happen? Afghan war (Caspian pipelines/Opium), Iraq War (oil, geoplitics), approval ratings for Bush (45% to 90% overnight), mil. Recruitment, Patriot Act, DHS, increased powers, etc. The list is huge and most know these already, at least roughly. They had the motive, the means, and the opportunity. They needed their “New Pearl Harbor.”

2) Failed air defense: Just five fighter scrambled late, sent the wrong direction very slowly, given no information, and no authority to do anything. - not a stand-down, but a similar effect, and confused by The numerous air-based war games that morning.

3) The various pro AND CON arguments on Controlled Demolitions of the WTC towers. I haven’t covered this myself, but make sure you see as many sides as possible before deciding. The evidence for demolition is compelling.

4) I believe the Pentagon’s physical evidence gives us nothing but the official story, other than the oddity of the location hit. What we see there is a curious cover-up and perpetuation of the mystery by the leadership, and a lot of bunk theories popping up like mushrooms. This is my main area and I have a whole page dedicated to it:
frustratingfraud.blogspot.com...

5) Circumstantial evidence: The heavy trading in “Put” options in the days before 9/11 betting American and United airlines would go down in stock values soon, Cheney tasked with creating the DHS in May 2001:they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com... wap-and-cheneys-effort.html
Plus Afghan / al Qaeda war plan readied for Bush’s signature on Sept. 9! And it seems the PATRIOT ACT having been written before 9/11 as well.
The curious defense chain link-swaps on that very morning at FAA, JCS, and NMCC:
and the general inaction of the chain of command at large:
they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com...

6) also look at the basic field of LIHOP vs. MIHOP theories to get a feel for what’s possible. they-let-it-happen.blogspot.com... This list of mine also has links on remote control tech for airliners: Raytheon invented such a system just weeks before 9/11, there’s one called “Home Run” supposedly in place since the 1970s, and faked phone calls is all that’s needed to turn a digital hijacking into a "terror attack" - it's quite possible...



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Well, I was really expecting more newbies to jump in here... but looks like its just me!


I have wondered if maybe the Government (Bush) initiated 9/11 in order to get things like Patriot act, extended powers in the Executive Branch, etc.... so that he can better work with the SPP and lay the framework for the NAU.

Crazy thought?



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 11:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by damajikninja
I have wondered if maybe the Government (Bush) initiated 9/11 in order to get things like Patriot act, extended powers

Gaining more control for the government over the people was certainly psrt of what 9/11 was about. But you would be mistaken for believeing Bush was the man who initiated it. Bush is just another pawn of the NWO business elite.
War in Iraq, Afganistan, Patriot Axt, Homeland security, more money for the arms industries etc, etc was all part of their benefits of 9/11. The 2 main goals the people behind 9/11 really have a re a 1 world government with them in control and a microchipped population. And you see we are getting nearer and nearer to that. More fingerprinting security cameras everywhere, extra police, stronger powers for detention etc, these are all to make it run more smoothly when micro-chipping becomes compulsory. You will be told it is all necessary to fight terrorists, and if you don't break the law what you got to worry about, and so on and so on.
It is all gearing the world towards a micro-chipped very easily controlled population.
Have you read Huxleys Brave New World.

The US (and British and many other governments) are merely the pawns of the NWO. Worth checking out aaron russo's interview where he claims the NWO even tried to recruit him
video.google.com...



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 12:53 PM
link   
Overall Synopsis:

1) 9/11 Commission was a farce. Commission didn't explain many serious issues, like why the FAA called NEADS with a false report that Flight 11 didn't hit WTC1, which caused NEADS to scramble fighters AWAY from incoming hijacked planes.

Key member of 9/11 Commission, Jamie Gorelick, also was #2 at Clinton's Justice Dept., and is the person who wrote "the wall" policy that prevented intelligence organizations (CIA) from giving what they found out to law enforcement (FBI), who could have prevent attacks.

Military intelligence unit named Able Danger claims they identified 9/11 terrorists the year before 9/11 and were forbidden to turn over information by the Dept. of Defense. Able Danger also tries to tell 9/11 Commission about this, but 9/11 Commission refuses to let them testify. Senate hearings are scheduled about this, but Donald Rumsfeld forbids Able Danger officers to testify in front of Senate.

Overall, the total and complete lack of a proper government investigation is what leads me to believe that serious issues are being covered up. What these issues are, I don't know.

2) WTC7 has every vertical support fail simultaneously 8 hours after 1st attack, and without being hit by a plane. This is a huge building. Once again, government fails to properly investigate why this building was totally destroyed. It's been over 5 years, and the NIST STILL doesn't have an answer. Plus, WTC7 was the first building that was cleared out after 9/11, eliminated any chance of evidence being examined. PLUS, WTC7 was the home of CIA, FBI, IRS, SEC, and Secret Service.

3) Suspects were identified WAY too soon after 9/11 and al-Qaeda was blamed, and Afghanistan was invaded. For a government that totally missed the planning for the attacks, the crime was solved in record time. Again, this is evidence that there was a total lack of a thorough investigation.

4) 9/11 events are used as a springboard to go to war in Iraq, inexplicably creating a link between al-Qaeda, 9/11, and Saddam Hussein. 9/11 was used to create the multi-billion dollar focal point of U.S. foreign policy, which shifted from getting rid of Hussein, to spreading democracy in the Middle East. War on Terror becomes a never-ending, open-ended means to continue spending billions of dollars on well-connected defense contractors, with the oil companies reaping the profits as well.

5) Media is complicit with government in going along with an unquestioned belief in the official story, as well as immediately degrading, insulting, and name calling of anybody who even questions the official story.



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 01:18 PM
link   
To balance this, lets's also include the sites that counter many of the claims made about 9-11.

www.911myths.com...

The above site covers many of the myths about 9-11.

WTC 7

Demolition of the towers.

If you are new to these conspiracies the above site can help give you prespective on what parts might be true, and what parts are outright lies.

www.911cultwatch.org.uk...

www.jnani.org...

www.debunking911.com...

screwloosechange.blogspot.com...



[edit on 19-2-2007 by LeftBehind]



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 02:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
My belief,
Is that the US Was very educated on when, where and how the attacks were going to occur.

The WTC's were elephants, costing money and would cost unforseen amounts of money being brought down through construction due to the massive asbestos issues.

They saw sept11 as an opportunity.

1. To hurt the citizens, and make them want revenge, giving bush Iraq.
2. To bring down the towers, cheap
3. To force citizens to sacrifice there freedoms for a form of 'leadership'

So, once they became aware the mission was approaching. They laden the WTC's with demo,
Had it primed at WTC7
Once the terrorists hijacked the planes and flew them in, creating such a sense of shock and awe in the community, they pulled them towers down, to make sure it made a lasting impression on the people.

Cheney ensured Bush would be OUT of the city, giving him authority to ensure no military jocks interfered ' thus the stand-down'


In saying that,

I beleive the Pentagon is definately a staged event.
A plane didnt hit, but something happened.
Why? I havent a clue yet..
But there's definately a reason, only those behind the walls know.




You have voted Agit8dChop for the Way Above Top Secret award.
Very good theory ,very ,very plausible.

[edit on 19-2-2007 by crowpruitt]



posted on Feb, 19 2007 @ 02:33 PM
link   
damajikninja~

Welcome to the land of misfit toys!! We ALL belong! I am the Charlie in the box!

First off, great idea for the newbies. You are the only one so far...but don't despair.

Let me give you some advice (for what it's worth) Watch the videos on 911 Conspiracy Theories first. Please keep an open mind and try not to draw conclusions right away. I will give you two videos to stay away from:

Loose Change & In Plane Sight. Loose Change producers are on record (and video) as saying that their video has "inaccuracies". In Plane Sight deals with missles on the planes and far out stuff like that.

I would stay away from Prison Planet as Alex Jones has been proven a liar in many of his posts.

Start off with the basics. My favorite is Who Killed John Oneil. www.wkjo.com

The debunking sites were listed above. I recommend as you watch the 911 CT videos, write down questions that you may have. These may or may not be answered for you in the "debunking" web sites.

Give both sides a chance and draw your own conclusions. There are many smart people from both sides in this forum that are willing to give you their personal opinions.

Of coarse... mine are all facts
RIGHT GUYS !!??



posted on Feb, 22 2007 @ 03:51 PM
link   
I'm still watching all the videos you guys linked me to, and checking all your sources. Very interesting stuff here... I can see why this conspiracy is so huge!

I will start posting in here more once I get some more of all this crammed in my brain - still wrapping myself around the raw evidence, etc.

BTW - Where are all the other 9/11 newbs? Surely I'm not the only one here?



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 11:39 PM
link   
Ok im new and will jump in,, the 9/11 stuff is mind boggleing.
Question,what do the experts think of the "in plane sight" video?
Question,what in anyones opinion is the flash from the wing of both aircraft that hit WTC's?
Question,did the US gov realy think they could get away with this, its all looking a bit sloppy?
Question, and finaly for now what about the passengers were are they?
you wanted a newbie so ill ask that for now and thanks for opening this thread as its a over whelming subject.
O i thought i might add how many US citizens in a rough % believe in the 9/11 conspiracie im from Australia and have asked some American folk if they believe and all so far cant believe the US would do that to them selvs.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 11:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by damajikninja
I have wondered if maybe the Government (Bush) initiated 9/11 in order to get things like Patriot act, extended powers in the Executive Branch, etc.... so that he can better work with the SPP and lay the framework for the NAU.


Probable

I just saw a picture in the local newpaper, about how the mexican president is lavishing praise and money upon the mexican miltary. There was a picture of him walking in step with his two highest military commanders. Maybe he needs thier help to implement the north american union from the mexican side of the border.

Oh yeah, President Felipe Calderón went to Harvard.


President Bush will welcome President-elect Felipe Calderon of Mexico to the White House on November 9, 2006.

President Bush and President-elect Calderon will discuss a range of global, regional, and bilateral issues, including ways to strengthen cooperation between the United States and Mexico, and enhance competitiveness, free trade, economic growth, and security in North America.

www.whitehouse.gov...


And so after the Bush meeting.


Feb. 24, 2007

Many Mexicans thought it odd when their new president, an economist with a degree from Harvard, showed up at a military ceremony wearing olive-green fatigues like a young Fidel Castro.

www.azcentral.com...



[edit on 26-2-2007 by In nothing we trust]




top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join