What's up with the Native American mascots?

I just read an an article written by Tim Giago, a Native American author, called "National Media Should Stop Using Obscene Words."

I tried to find it online, but I had no luck. So, I guess I'll post excerpts from it, as needed.

He says he is "sick and tired of hearing students and faculty from school using Indians as mascots say they are doing it to 'honor us.'" His message is directly mostly to the media. "Attention major newspapers, CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC: the word 'redskin' is an obscenity to Indians and to people who are sensitive to racism."

He cites Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, which defines the word as "American Indian usually to be taken offensive." He then asks , "[n]ow what is so hard to understand about this literal translation of the word 'redskin'?" He notes that this is a racial epithet in the same manner as those slurs widely considered to be inappropriate.

He makes it clear how offensive these mascots are to Indians. "It is not, I repeat NOT, an honor to see football fans dressed in supposed Indian attire nor to hear them trumpeting some ludicrous war chant nor to see them mimic or ape our dress, culture, or person."

I had occassionally wondered how Native Americans felt about teams like the Redskins, Braves, or Chiefs. Well, I guess I have an idea of that now. I do see where dude's coming from; I wouldn't be too happy if I was sitting on a reservation watching the Chiefs play the Colts on TV. I wouldn't feel honored if the Washington Coons or the Kansas City Darkies went to the Super Bowl.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I just read an an article written by Tim Giago, a Native American author, called "National Media Should Stop Using Obscene Words."

I tried to find it online, but I had no luck. So, I guess I'll post excerpts from it, as needed.

He says he is "sick and tired of hearing students and faculty from school using Indians as mascots say they are doing it to 'honor us.'" His message is directly mostly to the media. "Attention major newspapers, CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC: the word 'redskin' is an obscenity to Indians and to people who are sensitive to racism."

He cites Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, which defines the word as "American Indian usually to be taken offensive." He then asks , "[n]ow what is so hard to understand about this literal translation of the word 'redskin'?" He notes that this is a racial epithet in the same manner as those slurs widely considered to be inappropriate.

He makes it clear how offensive these mascots are to Indians. "It is not, I repeat NOT, an honor to see football fans dressed in supposed Indian attire nor to hear them trumpeting some ludicrous war chant nor to see them mimic or ape our dress, culture, or person."

I had occassionally wondered how Native Americans felt about teams like the Redskins, Braves, or Chiefs. Well, I guess I have an idea of that now. I do see where dude's coming from; I wouldn't be too happy if I was sitting on a reservation watching the Chiefs play the Colts on TV. I wouldn't feel honored if the Washington Coons or the Kansas City Darkies went to the Super Bowl.

You make a strong point! I am heavy Cherokee by blood, I feel that everyone likes to make a point how they were so wronged. Can you give me a worse case situation than loosing all that you had because, you had no realization what you had?? I know that might be alot to take in but, thats what happened. Indians in general worshiped the land and lost every bit of it because there was no ownership, they did not understand the meaning of the word.

I do not take it personal as I take the constitution, as it is all that remains of peoples rights and it is eroding fast. How would anyone feel if they were free to roam the land without any perception of ownership, then have EVERYONES land was held because it was the "right thing to do"?? Say what you feel otherwise but I have seen no efforts to give back a 10th of what was taken.

Do the sports teams bother me? Not nearly as much as current events do. As even the people that reside here have a level of comfort that every thing is cool as long as it doesn't happen to them has become par for the coarse, the people who wronged the native Americans will wrong their own people.

Thats what bothers me.

Yeah, I agree with you.

But, I don't think the Native Americans failed to realize what they had. It seems more like they had a different approach as to what to do with what they had. It's like, they lived more in harmony with nature, as opposed to making nature suit their needs.

I think Giago is saying that the mascots are disrespectful, sort of like a slap in the face. It reminds me of a cartoon I saw once...

It has 4 drawings of a white man and an Indian over 4 different time periods. The first 3 have the white shooting the Indian as they changed outfits as time went on, with "POW" coming from the gun. In the last pic, the white man is wearing a shirt that said something like "Redmen High" and waving a sports type flag (don't remember what that said). He says something like, "we do this to honor you." This time, the Indian, dressed in contemporary US fashion, makes a gun with his hand, points it to his head, and says "POW."

It's funny, but I guess that's kind of what Giago is trying to say.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Yeah, I agree with you.

But, I don't think the Native Americans failed to realize what they had. It seems more like they had a different approach as to what to do with what they had. It's like, they lived more in harmony with nature, as opposed to making nature suit their needs.

I think Giago is saying that the mascots are disrespectful, sort of like a slap in the face. It reminds me of a cartoon I saw once...

It has 4 drawings of a white man and an Indian over 4 different time periods. The first 3 have the white shooting the Indian as they changed outfits as time went on, with "POW" coming from the gun. In the last pic, the white man is wearing a shirt that said something like "Redmen High" and waving a sports type flag (don't remember what that said). He says something like, "we do this to honor you." This time, the Indian, dressed in contemporary US fashion, makes a gun with his hand, points it to his head, and says "POW."

It's funny, but I guess that's kind of what Giago is trying to say.

Maybe, but ask a Native American who the land belongs to and I promise they will say nobody. And they will say it until they are gone. As far as the slap in the face goes, there have been slaps preceding that that are unparalleled.

Ah, I gotcha.

I was unaware that Native Americans see the land this way. It's a pretty interesting viewpoint, seeing as how important land is, economically, today in the US. I mean that land is a valuable asset now.

But yeah, I'll have to look into that more. And, you're right again; there have been far worse slaps than that.

Btw, I also have Cherokee heritage, but not so much as you.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Btw, I also have Cherokee heritage, but not so much as you.

I can not agree with you there, I do have strong blood but am a "heinz 57" if you will. Predominately German and Cherokee, a strange mix I know but none the less an American.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I was unaware that Native Americans see the land this way. It's a pretty interesting viewpoint, seeing as how important land is, economically, today in the US. I mean that land is a valuable asset now.

Ever hear the term 'Property is theft'?. That is the same thing as the Native Americans believe, no one should own land. Most people don't realise that's what is meant by that term. But when we say it I guess it's not such an interesting viewpoint?

How can you own something you have not produced? The land has been stolen from all of us.

We could learn a lot from Native Americans. Good thread...

[edit on 12/2/2007 by ANOK]

I understand what you mean when you say the sports thing doesn't bother you too much. But...

Why are these type of mascots used in the first place? What's the purpose? Is there not a better way to honor Native Americans than to make mascots using stereotypes or racial slurs about them?

Your avatar is HILARIOUS, ANOK!! I can just hear Chimp Face, in his whiny little voice, saying "yeah, that's a good one!" Almost makes me want to return to the 9/11 forum...almost. (tear drops from left eye)

Originally posted by truthseeka
He makes it clear how offensive these mascots are to Indians. "It is not, I repeat NOT, an honor to see football fans dressed in supposed Indian attire nor to hear them trumpeting some ludicrous war chant nor to see them mimic or ape our dress, culture, or person."

I had occassionally wondered how Native Americans felt about teams like the Redskins, Braves, or Chiefs. Well, I guess I have an idea of that now. I do see where dude's coming from; I wouldn't be too happy if I was sitting on a reservation watching the Chiefs play the Colts on TV. I wouldn't feel honored if the Washington Coons or the Kansas City Darkies went to the Super Bowl.

AGREED !!!

Having more than a quarter of Seneca tribe blood myself (Great Grandfather was a Chief) I feel I can submit an opinion. I think it is pretty shameful as well. Could you imagine other proffesional sports"tributes" to ethnic Americans:

Proposed honorary mascots:

In NO way to be offensive- ONLY to make a point.

The San Francisco "Chinkers"
(in honor of the many of Chinese railroad workers)
Fans wearing Kung-FU outfits and straw hats.....

The New Orleans "Coons"
(in honor of the many Negro slaves)
Fans painting there faces, "clanging" chains as applause

The Brooklyn "Woppers"
(in honor of the many Italian American refugees of the 1900's)
Fans dressing up in "wifebeaters" and slickin back their hair.........

You get the point. And YES "REDSKIN" is NO compliment either !!!



[edit on 12-2-2007 by _DISAVOWED_]

I don't mean to make light of this, but...



Disavowed, you clearly see what I'm saying. It's ridiculous that making a mascot with a racial epithet is going to make people stereotyped and defamed by said epithet seem honored. Chinese people were vital to the construction of the railroad system, yet I don't think being called the "Chinkers" would make them feel good about it.

I didn't take offense to your teams; the Coons fans "clanging their chains" after a touchdown is hucking filarious!!! (of course, if this were a real team, I'd be ready to bust some heads)

Good points _DISAVOWED_ I was not stating that I thought it was O.K., simply that I thought there were other things that were alot worse like land lottery, trail of tears among many others.

I think If people really wanted to pay respect to the native americans they could start with abolishing Columbus day. Ask any native american how they feel about having the beginning of the end of their way of life celebrated as a national holiday. Not to mention that findings (and I'm not refering to the bogus vinland map) show the norsemen were over here before him so, why still celebrate him just because he reported back to the throne? I think native americans would appreciate that a great deal. And if we were really feeling nice maybe a little more land. I don't see that in the cards though.

Wait,

So its alright for environmentalists to use a Native American Stereotype in there commercials ,But its not ok for sports teams to use them as there logo?

Never thought about it that way, shizzle.

I HAVE thought about the term "Indian," which has stuck since Columbus came. Too bad India is on an ENTIRELY different continent. But, you have a GREAT point; even though anyone with a decent education knows Columbus DIDN'T discover America (Native Americans have been here for like 25,000 years or something), we still have Columbus Day. And, that is sad, that the end of the Native American way of life is celebrated as a holiday.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by truthseeka]

The native american mascots/logos, etc, all go back to the same time, and supporters, who were running the old minstrel shows that made fun of black people. I live near a university where it is quite a big issue right now...there's also another small midwestern town in my area that had a sports team called the "chinks" up until not too long ago...

Originally posted by Disgustipated
Wait,

So its alright for environmentalists to use a Native American Stereotype in there commercials ,But its not ok for sports teams to use them as there logo?

Which commercial are you referring to? Do you have any links? I would like to check it out.

He's talking about the litter commercial with the dude shedding a tear.

Don't ask me how that's a Native American stereotype, though...

To get upset because someone wants to use YOU as the REPRESENTATIVE of there organization is stupid.

Do you really think that people would sue if the "Fighting Whitey's" were a schools name.

Sure its ok to get upset when someone uses a slang, that means something bad to name their team. But should you educate them as appossed to getting mad and sueing them, or what ever.

By the way me favorite baseball team is the Cleveland Indians. "The Tribe" as they are also know suck, is that why they get so upset.

Is everybody up north upset because of the "Yankee's"

Are big horned steers mad about the Texas "Longhorns"

Are people in Oklahoma mad about the "Sooners"

Are the people of troy going to rise against the USC "Trojans"

This whole topic is idiotic. If they don't want their names to represent these teams, then change it. THE DON'T DESERVE TO HAVE THEM NAMED AFTER THEM.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Royal76]

Sorry maybe i should of been a bit more clearer

This is allowed,

Crying indian


But this isnt,







So on and so forth...


So why is there double standerds for environmentalists and sports teams?



[edit on 12-2-2007 by Disgustipated]

I don't think big horn steers are mad about the Longhorns more than themselves being made into footballs....

Anyhow, it sadly is a dead issue. The NFL, MLB, NHL, NCAA, etc. will never change the names of their beloved mascots. The closest thing was back in the 90's when the Cleveland Indians re-did their hats and got rid of that goofy smiling Indian.

As stated I am only about 1/4 Native American. The mascots won't change. Hollywood will never get it right. the government will never acknowledge their currnet plight. Regarding history books; children will never be truly educated about it.

Point the OP is trying to make is that the term "REDSKIN" is no different than "SAVAGE". Kind of offensive don't ya' think ?