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L.A. Hospital Drops Paraplegic Patient on Skid Row

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posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by apc
Being human... heh. So being human is telling people, "Don't worry. You don't have to work."

To be human is to be able to feel compassion for fellow humans, put one own life at stake in unselfish action if needed.

That ability is the touchstone of any society.


Socialized services should exist to protect, not provide. The only time they should exist to provide is for those who serve the people and as a result become unable to provide for themselves. eg A military veteran disabled in conflict [or a firefighter injured in a burning building
]. And even then, they should be limited by time with respect to their disability.

Socialized, such a weird word (*Sozialisiert* --sounds like a nazi word-- don't put it with Nation) Uh!
But Social services are always asked for.
You know, you can tell a society on its way of taking care of its weakest.


Sure, it would be great if more shelters existed that would provide a bed and some food for people willing to work for their stay. But hospitals do not exist to provide this.

I 100% agree in THAT .


edit to add)



Originally posted by darkblueskyJust another adhominem attack piece on American culture and values, this time courtesy of Kuhnmoon

Please don't say that, few like I adhere American culture, the one that conquered the world, but don't mistake it for pity and bloody politics.


[edit on 13-2-2007 by khunmoon]




posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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I'll tell you. After re-reading the LA Times story, I'm more concerned about the quality of journalism in the US than the qulaity of our care system for the indigent.

The story does not tell us when the incident occured, how much time passed between the "alleged" drop off, and when the police were notified, or when the police arrive on the scene. It does not tell us if the police tried to locate the paraplegic man, whom we were told, did not have a walker or wheelchair and was dragging a broken colostemy bag. Doesn't seem like he could have gotten very far does it? Did the witnesses at least tell the police in which direction the man crawled? How could they fail to find the man?

This tells me the story is nothing more than a sensationalized hack piece written by a bum reporter at a bum paper. Must be there were no good Brittany stories that day.



[edit on 2/13/2007 by darkbluesky]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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This does occur all over the country. By law a hospital is only supposed to put someone back to "stable" condition, if they have no insurance. This is to keep hospitals from denying service to people who walk in with a deadly wound, disease, so on, who can't afford to pay. There are also various charities that donate to hospitals for people who can't afford to pay for treatment, and also for expenses like that man's health care expense.

In fact, anyone can get very cheap or free health care from the hospital by signing up for support from a hospital's charity.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by DJMessiah]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:19 PM
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The right wing blame the victim attitude is disgusting. The simple fact that someone is in need should be enough... screw attaching a bottom line to it, simple human decency should tell you that when this type of thing happens, bean counters are putting profits before people.... homeless or not... that is immoral.

You should remember all your arguments against helping the poor when some loved one (or yourself) is denied treatment because some bean counter decides that you are not important enough or that your treatment is too expensive to bother with.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by grover]


apc

posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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Your ignorant left wing rant is typical. The fact that we have no details of this case available to us proves that.

So you think this hospital should have given this man free room and board? What about the next homeless guy that gets hurt or hurts himself intentionally and is admitted to the hospital? Are they supposed to give him a room, too? Hell, maybe all hospitals should build a "Homeless Welfare" wing, to care for all the lazy bums who refuse to rebuild their own lives. But you gotta remember, someone has to pay for it all. And what happens then? Well, what happens when our hospitals are overrun by illegal immigrants? They raise their rates. They run out of money. They shut down.

But that won't happen, right? We'll just abandon Capitalism and move to Socialism. The Government can provide everything for everyone, and everyone will be equal and happy. We can have a nice lil' National Socialist Party running everything. Ooops! Wouldn't want that, would we?



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by apc
Your ignorant left wing rant is typical. The fact that we have no details of this case available to us proves that.

So you think this hospital should have given this man free room and board? What about the next homeless guy that gets hurt or hurts himself intentionally and is admitted to the hospital? Are they supposed to give him a room, too? Hell, maybe all hospitals should build a "Homeless Welfare" wing, to care for all the lazy bums who refuse to rebuild their own lives. But you gotta remember, someone has to pay for it all. And what happens then? Well, what happens when our hospitals are overrun by illegal immigrants? They raise their rates. They run out of money. They shut down.

But that won't happen, right? We'll just abandon Capitalism and move to Socialism. The Government can provide everything for everyone, and everyone will be equal and happy. We can have a nice lil' National Socialist Party running everything. Ooops! Wouldn't want that, would we?



I could make some comment about your ignorant right wing rant.

you have no charity in your soul do you?


apc

posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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The other day I drove past some guy standing on the corner holding a sign and wearing blue jeans and flannel while it was about 8degF out. I offered him the blanket I kept in my truck. I don't give those guys money, they haven't earned it. But standing there in the cold, that guy deserved a blanket.

My point is, if you are homeless, that is not my problem. It's yours. If you don't have money for food, again... not my problem. But trying to tell me that it is my responsibility to support those who refuse to support themselves, then I have a problem.

If someone wants to do some work for me, I'm more than happy to give them money in return. But if someone just walks up with their hand out, I'm going to slap that hand back into their face.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:12 PM
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And the point I am trying to make is that not everyone who is homeless is so because they are shiftless, or drug addicts or alcoholic or mentally disturbed. There are many who started their downward spiral from some unfortunate turn of events over which they had little or no control, and which they have not been able to pull out of.... such as being paraplegic possibly.

I have seen first hand how many of the cities in this country discount the destitute and it is wrong.

A paraplegic who needs a colon. bag is hardy your average skid row bum, even if he is homeless and I doubt seriously if he has such problems he is going to be walking into manpower for a job either...or if he did anyone would hire him.

So you gave a guy a blanket... how truly Christian of you.


apc

posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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... I'm not Christian, genius.

Everyone has control over their own lives. People like you don't seem to understand this, and feel it is your obligation to control their lives for them.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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You don't have a clue as to what I understand APC.... in fact from your posts, you don't have a clue at all.

I hope you are comfortable and prosperous all your days and have no need for charity so it is not wasted on you.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by grover

A paraplegic who needs a colon. bag is hardy your average skid row bum, even if he is homeless and I doubt seriously if he has such problems he is going to be walking into manpower for a job either...or if he did anyone would hire him.


The point is, our society has measures in place to care for those who cannot care for themselves if they will avail themselves.

All those homeless wanderers who live on the street and panhandle or scrounge for their daily sustanance do so because they choose to, whether or not they arrived at this point due to their own choices is open to debate, but when they become helpless to the degree they cannot feed, cloth, or shelter themselves, there are places they can go, they simply choose not to.

There are state institutes/hospitals (formerly called asylums) for those physically unable to care for themselves. There are government and privately owned shelters and kitchens through out the country for those who choose to wander the streets by choice, or are unable to find/hold a job. For those who cannot hold a job do to mental or physical infirmity there are the aforemention hospitals as well as state sponsored group homes. The help is there for those who want it.

Go out on the street and try to convince a few of those "down on their luck" to move into a shelter where they can bath, eat hot meals, and sleep in a warm dry place, and see how much luck you have. To a man, they will decline, because to live in the shelter, they must cease shooting, snorting, or drinking whatever medication it is they rely on for their daily existence.


Our society does not throw people away.
Help is always there for those who want it.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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The vast majority of those institutes as you call them were shut down in the 70's and 80's. Reagan shut California's down while he was governor to facilate tax cuts. I know of very few state run institutes like what you are describing left open, and the private ones, like private doctors are turning away from mediciad and medicare in favor of private payer system.

So odds are that man would still be on the streets.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by darkbluesky
California

living arrangements for people with developmental dissabilities

Community Care Facilities

State Mental Health Hospitals

Service for homeless with mental illness

Veterans Home of CA

VA hospital finder

Now, you were saying?


I am happy to be proved wrong but a lot of instituitions were shut down by Reagan, and it was a national phenomena throughout the 80's. I was doing volunteer work with the poor and homeless during the 80's and I do know what I am talking about in that regard because we had to deal with them. The group I was with was in Portland Maine called "We Who Care". They continue to do a good job up there, Still, to just dump a person like a piece of garbage is wrong...if they were concerned about him they could have dropped him off at one of these places and if his health was so bad, they could have had him committed easily enough.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by darkblueskyI don't see why. We "people of the earth" are all human. Why should Americans be expected to be any better than Brazilians, Canadians, Yemeni, Uzbheks, Estonians, Philipinos.......? Because we use more resources? Where is the correlation?

The nation which has ten times more resources should be able to care for its citizens. That we EAT and CRAP those resources out without using them for our fellow citizens, reflects poorly on us as a nation of fat-asses who consume ten times more than any othter nation per capita.

You attack khunmoon and say "This happens all over the world!" ...Point is, in those places it might happen out of neccesity. In the good ol' US, it happens because of laziness and lack of attention. We have no excuse.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:20 PM
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Grover, I agree with your assessment of the treatment of the man in the story.

I take exception with those (not you), who tried to take advantage of this incident to launch yet another diatribe against American society, culture and moral values. I know we have our problems, but we're no better or worse as a culture, than any other modern day developed society.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
[That we EAT and CRAP those resources out without using them for our fellow citizens, reflects poorly on us as a nation of fat-asses who consume ten times more than any othter nation per capita.



So the food and electricity that we waste, or overconsume is directly correlated to the suffering of our fellow citizens? Think with your head, not your heart. Or better yet think first, feel second.

And don't be such a self hater, It'll take you down eventually.

Just friendly advice.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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I have to agree with peeps. The level of waste in this country is simply appalling and it doesn't matter what it is either. me personally every single light in my apartment is one of those energy savers... I bicycled everywhere I went until my knee gave out on me and now use a scooter... I grow as much of my own food as possible in my circumstances, which is actually quite considerable, still. What I don't grow I often buy in bulk from the local farmers market and can. You pass houses where every single light is on, people drive hummers that not only devour gas but cost more than some homes, supermarkets throw away huge amounts of food, vegetables especially that are perfectly fine except for a blemish or two. The new IT always cost more than the old IT and often is more obsolete when it is unpacked than the old IT when it was thrown away. People know the price of everything and the value of nothing... including life itself. People wail away at the notion of abortion but fail to understand that if that child aborted is born unwanted and unloved then... it is as much or more of a tragedy as its abortion would have been. We all want to live longer but when the quality of life fades we still do not go gentle into that good night and make way for others. even in death no one opts for the simple pine box but wants excess. I am poor but I learned years ago that while I may be poor that does not mean that I have to live poorly...but that does not mean I have to translate that into material things... the quality of one's life is more spiritual than it is anything else. When I hit 45 or so i realized that I had everything I needed. That was not to say that there were not things I wanted, but that is not the same thing... a lesson the inevitable parents in a brawl over the last IT for their spoiled rotten child during Christmas have failed to understand.

When you look at society though that lens... it is easy to see how disposable stuff can easily translate into disposable souls...much to the deteriment of us all including APC.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by grover]


apc

posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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sigh... it's apc.

I don't have a problem with people helping those who have thrown their own lives away. I don't care if others wish to devote their lives to people who care not about their own. Do what you will. That's what so great about it... it is your will. You may do what you wish with it. But never, never demand that I, or anyone else, submits to your will. By expecting government to step in and support everyone, that is exactly what you are doing. By expecting hospitals to bend over backwards to care for people whom they are not obligated to, that is exactly what you are doing.

But what do I know? I'm clueless, right?



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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I never said it was governments job to take care of people... still all the great cultures have supported the arts and helped the least fortunate...even the Romans.



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