Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Blood Libel? The Myth Questioned.

page: 1
10

log in

join

posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 02:40 AM
link   
Blood Libel, long considered a myth bandied about by those who hate the Jewish people. This myth has been cited as the reason for much of the anti-semitism that spread across Europe and the Middle East. In the Arab nations, blood libel is still generated on TV. Wikipedia tells us:

The blood libel resurfaced in the work of Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774–1824), a German Catholic nun and alleged visionary, when she commented (pp 547–8) in her biography that an elderly Jewish woman had told her that the blood libel was "true" and that Jews "did" steal the children of Christians for use in ritual sacrifices.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now a Bar-Ilan University historian has caused a huge controversy in his book that states these "myths" have basis in fact.


www.haaretz.com
A Bar-Ilan University historian has raised a storm by alleging in a new book that some blood libels - accusations that Jews killed Christians in ritual murders to add their blood to matza and wine on Passover - may be based on real ceremonies in which the blood of Christians was actually used.

"Pasque di Sangue," by Ariel Toaff, was just released in Italy. It shocked the country's small Jewish community - in part because he is the son of Elio Toaff, the chief rabbi who welcomed Pope John Paul II to Rome's synagogue two decades ago in a historic visit that helped ease Catholic-Jewish relations after centuries of tensions.

The Anti-Defamation League chairman, Abe Foxman, said, "It's hard for me to believe that someone, especially an Israeli historian, would legitimize the baseless claims of the blood libels."




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This is most interesting. If a non-Jew were to have written this book, they would have been branded an anti-semite and the book would have quickly been consigned to gather dust and be forgotten.

But a prominent Jewish Historian?

Related News Links:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
www.religioustolerance.org



[edit on 11/2/2007 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 11/2/2007 by Beelzebubba]




posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 02:57 AM
link   
I had never even heard of this...
What would be the point of drinking the blood of christians? To try to be saved as well?
Kind of a joke, but christians consume the blood and body of christ ritually, I wonder if this is some kind of symblic gesture.



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 03:05 AM
link   
I've never seen any info that would lead me to believe Jews in Europe used the blood of kidnapped Christian children for anything.

The story seems to have gained credence every time Christian children went missing near Jewish ghettos.

In one case there were accusations, and some revenge murders I believe, and then the missing children were found drowned in a culvert.

But I guess the Jews did that too.


Anyway, it wouldn't totally surprise me if the myth was, in part, based on some ritual or another, perhaps practiced by an isolated community or radical sect or something. What would surprise me is anyone making the connection between using blood in a ritual and kidnapping/killing children to make dough balls.

Sounds like nonsense...



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 03:11 AM
link   
I tend to agree that it is anti-semitic nonsense as well. I have never seen any evidence of Jews doing this kind of thing to anyone, much less targetting Christians. I think we are about to see another wave of anti-semitism in parts of the world and things like this will only serve to fuel the fire, once again.



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 04:34 AM
link   
I'm sure that many innocent Jews have suffered because of these tales, but to say that it is entirely false... I'm not so sure.

I would definately say that this is not something practiced by your everyday Jew, and that many do not even know that there is some historical fact behind the stories.

I agree along the lines of WyrdeOne, these rituals have most probably been consigned to the most insulated, fanatical sects within the Judaic/Cabalistic belief.

This is a crime that Jews have been accused of for a millenia, in many far flung regions of the world.

We're talking about accusations made by Crusaders, Turkish sultans, twelfth-century Yorkshire Saxons, Argentinians, Cossacks, British historians, Renaissance Italian popes, the burgomeisters of Prague, and modern-day Arabs. In places as diverse as Cochin China, medieval Germany, 1913 Kiev and 1970 Montreal.

I do hope that this book receives an English translation as I would like to see what facts Toaff cites to prove his theory.

[edit on 11/2/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 01:17 PM
link   
I thought Lilith was the one who stole the newborns. Was she a jew?

It was mentioned on this thread that the blood was used to make wine.

I thought Jesus changed blood to wine.



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 02:02 PM
link   
I don't think Lilith was Jewish any more than an Adam and Eve were Jewish.

And yes, Lilith killed children in the myths.

She wasn't a human being though, she was a feminine incarnation of divine darkness. Like, the queen of the sucubi...

Personally, I've always liked her a lot better than Eve. She took control of her destiny and was only punished by God because Adam was a jealous control-freak.

:shk:

What were we talking about again?




posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Now a Bar-Ilan University historian has caused a huge controversy in his book that states these "myths" have basis in fact.

And what evidence does he cite?


Jewish and Catholic scholars have denounced Toaff's work, saying he simply reinterpreted known documents - and has given credence to confessions extracted under torture.



From him himself

In an interview with the Italian newspaper La Stampa, Toaff responded angrily to his critics, saying, "My research shows that in the Middle Ages, a group of fundamentalist Jews did not respect the biblical prohibition and used blood for healing. It is just one group of Jews, who belonged to the communities that suffered the severest persecution during the Crusades. From this trauma came a passion for revenge that in some cases led to responses, among them ritual murder of Christian children."


This quotation is unclear if it is him or his father speaking

In an interview Friday with The Associated Press, Toaff said, "There is no proof that Jews committed such an act." But he added that the confessions do hold some truth - as when the accused recount anti-Christian liturgies that were mainly used on Passover, when the Israelites' liberation from ancient Egypt became a metaphor for Judaism's hope for redemption from its suffering at the hands of Christians.




"These liturgical formulas in Hebrew cannot be projections of the judges who could not know these prayers, which didn't belong to Italian rites but to the Ashkenazi tradition," he said.

Seems sensible enough reasoning, but I'd still like to see more of the evidence before saying that jews drank christian baby blood.


"The judges used horrible tortures, to the point where the accused pleaded: 'Tell us what you want us to say.'"




This is a crime that Jews have been accused of for a millenia, in many far flung regions of the world.


A weak minority usually has every charge in the book thrown at them.

The romans said that the christians were atheist perverts, does that make it true?


interestedalways
I thought Lilith was the one who stole the newborns. Was she a jew?

Lilith comes from superstition and folklore. She is a demon that kills jewish babies, probably an explanation for infant crib death.



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 08:02 PM
link   
The story continues...



Toaff said he reached his conclusions after coming across testimony from the trial for the murder of a Christian child, Simon of Trento, in 1475, which in the past was believed to have been falsified. "I found there were statements and parts of the testimony that were not part of the Christian culture of the judges, and they could not have been invented or added by them. They were components appearing in prayers known from the [Jewish] prayer book.

"Over many dozens of pages I proved the centrality of blood on Passover," Toaff said. "Based on many sermons, I concluded that blood was used, especially by Ashkenazi Jews, and that there was a belief in the special curative powers of children's blood. It turns out that among the remedies of Ashkenazi Jews were powders made of blood."



Although the use of blood is prohibited by Jewish law, Toaff says he found proof of rabbinic permission to use blood, even human blood. "The rabbis permitted it both because the blood was already dried," and because in Ashkenazi communities it was an accepted custom that took on the force of law, Toaff said. There is no proof of acts of murder, Toaff said, but there were curses and hatred of Christians, and prayers inciting to cruel vengeance against Christians. "There was always the possibility that some crazy person would do something."


Link



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 11:56 PM
link   
reply to post by XphilesPhan
 


It's satanic!

The police will never expose a murder to be that of a ritual or satanic nature.

It is verboten.

www.honestmediatoday.com... Has some info, as well as some on youtube and google.

In germany prior to WWI there were children of all ages who were kidnapped and drained of their blood, then either washed clean and redressed and placed in a conspicuous spot or cut up and scattered around the area. I don't believe that anyone was successfully prosecuted for the crimes, mainly due to lots of coordinated interference being run on the investigators. I'll leave the details for you to find on your own what they did, who was suspected etc.

It is a quite sad affair



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 12:17 AM
link   
reply to post by Beelzebubba
 




Needless to say, this is quite a sensitive subject.

One must ask themselves, if the eskimos are protected by hate language laws, how could an eskimo ever get prosecuted for doing anything wrong?

The cops will not even investigate the eskimos in a blood libel type situation. They won't investigate satanists either!

I once heard an interview by a 26yr veteran of the nyc police department that talked about how much influence the church had in covering up sex related activities that would come up.

This is similar, a group has powerful connections and the brass are pressured to "find" somebody else, or look elsewhere etc.

How can people fight that and win?

And the ignorant get hurt!!!! What happens to a guy who gets emotional, who wants justice and gets the runaround? You know there are a few ugly options there. None of them having any justice to it at all.

At least if you know there's a coverup, and you got no pull in it and no say so you can go workout or burn up your frustration somehow and slowly get over it, knowing God will take His vengeance in due time.



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 05:35 PM
link   
I'm going to call this one "bad science."

The further reading indicates he used ONE text, which was a transcript of a trial. In these trials the defendant has no attorney. They are tortured, hauled in front of judges, and told to confess what they know. If the confession isn't satisfactory, they are tortured again. Family members may also be tortured to find out what else is known and if they are wealthy, servants may be tortured (who will gladly say ANYTHING if it gets them off.)

As to the judges "not knowing" anything about Judaism, I suspect a good look at the trial records will show they are asking very pointed questions that suggest that they had already made up their minds AND that they had prior knowledge of the culture.

Additionally, blood can NOT be used to make wine (it doesn't ferment) and to use blood would break kosher... and in those days all Jews were strictly kosher.



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 06:57 PM
link   
Byrd,

Well, THAT one may be bad science, but what about all the others?

Are those just coincidences?

Maybe I should start another thread on worldwide ritual murder and take a look at the similarities and ask why the cops avoid making any satanic or otherwise comments on any scenes that resemble it.

I'm thinking the cops aren't even trained on it! I wish one would post. I read enough to know, they'll bendover backwards to avoid hinting it could be satanic.

Any ideas on who is pressuring them?



posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 10:23 PM
link   
Jews are people, they are just as likely as any other group when put in a small place where they mix with few people to go off on bizarre cultish tangents.

I'm sure you could find plenty of examples of non jew's not only drinking blood but also eating other humans.

Lets talk about the slave trade shall we and how every white man on earth is responsible for what happened under the auspices of their governments not even that long ago.

No ? Well then.... don't get me wrong if it was true in any broad sense of the word then fair enough it should be exposed, but actually is just sensationalist crap to sell a book.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 05:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by toasted
Well, THAT one may be bad science, but what about all the others?

I'm familiar with a number of societies that practice human sacrifice. Which ones are you talking about?


Maybe I should start another thread on worldwide ritual murder and take a look at the similarities and ask why the cops avoid making any satanic or otherwise comments on any scenes that resemble it.


Not all ritual murders are satanic... in fact, only a handful of them are satanic (speaking of the religion of Satanism, not labeling all ritual murders as satanic.)


I'm thinking the cops aren't even trained on it!

You'd be wrong on that guess. I did contract work for several police departments and had lengthy discussions with them on training they had about Santaria priests and Voodoo priests since they'd occasionally get calls about someone sacrificing a chicken in the public park.



posted on Jul, 28 2009 @ 06:26 AM
link   
reply to post by Byrd
 


Hi Byrd/

Actually In the Old Testament worship of Idols and sacrifices makes it clear people that people who fell away from God continued in their wicked ways...
The prophet Elijah (900 years B.C).
was one of the strongest defenders of true faith and godliness (Ch. 17-21). Grieving over the spiritual death of his people,
Elijah was determined and tough in punishing the wicked.
Elijah was called to prophetic ministry under the wicked Israelite king Ahab. Ahab's blood-thirsty wife,
Jezebel, who was a daughter of a pagan priest from Sidon, put many Jewish prophets to death and filled the land of Israel with pagan priests of Baal.Although God gave the people time to repent, they did not end their sacrifices and worship of Idols....
Elijah was great in Gods eyes and heard His prayers...For his holy life and a great love for God, the prophet Elijah was taken to heaven alive in a fiery chariot. The story of the 2nd (4th) Book of the Kingdoms starts with this event.
According to prophecy, Elijah will come again before the end of the world in order to expose the lies of the antichrist. At that time he will die as a martyr.
Right throughout the Old Testament Rightious Prophets were put to death by Idol Worshippers for their gods!
Only time it stopped was when Rightious Kings were put in POWER!
The same goes for todays world...those in POWER and CORRUPTION only bring out the WORST in people!

The time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
John 16:2

In the Great Prophet DANIEL we hear....Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His.
Daniel 9:26

In the New Testament Jesus Christ said....

And in REVELATION we read...I know thy works,
and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan.

My people did not hear My voice,
and Israel harkened not to Me ...
They gave Me gall for My food,
and in My thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink ... Let their eyes be darkened,
and their back bend down always.
Pour out Thy indignation upon them: let Thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
Let their habitation be made desolate,
and let there be no One to dwell in their tabernacles,
because they have persecuted Him Whom Thou hast smitten,
and they have added to the grief of My wounds.
Add Thou iniquity upon their iniquity; and let them not come into Thy justice.
Let them be blotted out of the Book of the Living, and with the Just let them not be written...............Prophecy Fullfilled!
Psalm 80:12,68:22-29
Revelation 2:9

You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
you always resist the Holy Ghost; as your fathers did,
so do you also.
Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
And they have slain them who foretold the coming of the Just One,
of Whom you have now been the betrayers and murderers.
Acts 7:51-52...Pretty interesting SCRIPTURE!

They have rejected Me,
that I should not reign over them ...
They have forsaken Me and served strange gods....Indeed STRANGE gods!
1 Kings 8:7-8

Let their eyes be dim so that they cannot see,
and let them walk bent-backed forever with a heavy load.
Psalm 68:24

Thou shalt eat bread ... and cover it with the dung that cometh out of a man ... Thus shall the children of Israel eat their bread all filthy among the nations wither I will cast them out,
saith the Lord.
Ezekiel4:12-13

Many more passages that have been fullfilled and are still being FULLFILLED in OUR DAYS!

ICXC NIKA
helen



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 02:46 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 10:23 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 26 2013 @ 10:23 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 





new topics




 
10

log in

join