Another 'myth' about Area 51...the security guards

Originally posted by hiii_98
The harassment includes public land. I had the same ignorant train of thought prior to spending 3 straight days/nights in the desert next to the base as alot of you regarding the camo dudes... I was dead wrong. Go out there with me, prove me wrong, i'm leaving again in 30 days.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by hiii_98]

So you didn't go near the fence, didn't throw anything at the fence, no rock chunking over the fence to toggle the geophones, just sat in the public area?

I don't think they're supposed to do that, although I've never been there myself, I know the Wackies aren't allowed to accost you outside the base perimeter at UTTR. What they will do is put a couple of guys where you can't see them and wait for you to try coming in, and they get more and more of an attitude the longer they have to camp out. Is it possible the base owns land outside the fence and you were on that instead of public land?

That said, there is another place or two that you guys don't discuss that will send out 'others' in civvies to make you go away if you persist in hanging around, but those are not AF bases.

Dumb question, do you have cell phone access where you camp out? It might be fun to televise the attack of the Wackies on a Sprint data link or something. You should at least record it and put it up on Youtube, maybe to "Flight of the Valkyries".

Oh, by the way, you might lay out an escape route different from the last one you used, if I was a Wackie and thought you were going the same way again, I might station a couple of vehicles out there on your route and put down some spike strips before starting the chase back at the fence.

first off i'd like to apologize for any heated or antagonistic comments i left last night. I was alittle tipsy and ... well i apologize for any unprofessionalism on my part.

So you didn't go near the fence, didn't throw anything at the fence, no rock chunking over the fence to toggle the geophones, just sat in the public area?

I don't think they're supposed to do that, although I've never been there myself, I know the Wackies aren't allowed to accost you outside the base perimeter at UTTR.So you didn't go near the fence, didn't throw anything at the fence, no rock chunking over the fence to toggle the geophones, just sat in the public area?

I don't think they're supposed to do that, although I've never been there myself, I know the Wackies aren't allowed to accost you outside the base perimeter at UTTR.

I'm not trying to be sensationalistic but YES, we didnt throw anything over the border, and all of this happened within public land, that is why i'm so passionate about this topic. I NEVER expected to be so afraid for not crossing the border. I think part of the trouble occured when we went down mailbox road rather than groom lake road at 3 am. I'm not sure if there are border markers on that road and it was very dark out, so we kept plodding up the mountain (ridge?). I then pulled over off the road and went into the desert turned the lights off, grabbed a pillow and started watching the sky. I think they KNEW we were there somewhere but at first didnt know where. Honestly i'm not 100% sure i was on public land as i'm much less familiar with the mailbox road border lines than i was with the groom lake road border. Another interesting notation is that after the patrol assulted(?) my vechicle and i took evasive manuvers to escape as i was looking out my rear window a massive red/orange ball of light popped up over the mountain directly in front of where we were parked. The ford truck at first almost ramed into our jeep turned their spot lights directly in our car, and started to get out of their own. I put it in reverse and TOOK OFF. They gave chase at very close range. Scared the hell out of me, and even followed us down the highway (they did turn around a few miles into the chase on the highway). My point being is that the men in the car looked VERY serious and i unquestionably got the feeling that something very bad was about to phsyically happen. I didnt feel like an american citizen with rights out in the middle of nowhere when that happened, and i would have felt much much safer if it was a policeman stopping me than the waks.

Despite all this i want to go back, but i'm not sure about provoking the guards and this time i'd rather keep my distance and come prepared with expensive equiptment for better viewing. When i told my story to the owner of the AlieInn the next day, she told me what they did was illegal, she also mentioned that if it was her she would have gotten out of the car and walked up to their window and told them her rights. Personally... i think she would have pissed her adult diaper if she was in the car with us when that happened. I like to push the evelope in life and walk on the edge of danger... but this one event felt like i came way too close to getting into something that was over my head. I have no doubt if i reproduce the trip and what i did, that they would react the same way. perhaps the fact that i was hidden far off to the side of the road (with my lighs off the entire trip) upset them? Perhaps I had unknowingly crossed some invisible border. Perhaps they KNEW something classified was going to be in very close proximity to our location and needed to aggresivly push anyone off of public land who might witness it. I have no idea, but i want to and need to go back to experience more.

Again sorry if i came off aggressive and emotional last night and i do respect opinions other than my own.

I think it would be entertaining to record it and post it. Well, maybe not entertaining at the time.

Sometimes some of the tests don't end up happening quite where you thought they were going to due to malfunctions or targeting errors, and maybe (pure guess) they were trying to clear the area. I don't know Groom Lake or Nellis's ROE as regards people near the perimeter.

In 2004 there was a test at a famous testing area where some civvies were left too close to the perimeter and they got hurt due to a targeting error. Maybe they've stepped up "clearing the area" to a bold new level after that.

Nonetheless, if you're going back to the same location, I'd still advise not going in and coming out the same way, if I was going to nab you, I'd rig the route you used and chase you into an ambush.

i think they have about 4 trucks they use to patrol the public land. What i was suprised at was how aggressively they try to force you off of the public land. Even sitting at the mailbox the next day we had a truck within noticable distance parked watching us and flashing its lights. Perhaps your right about some sort of test being performed (well something very bright stationary, and odd went up into the sky 15 minutes after the moment the camo dudes went nuts) and could potentailly have crashed near our location. What i find most interesting is the owner of the black mail box, his ranch is located fairly close to the border. It must be hell for him living there as any friends or family visiting at night would be harassed away from even entering his property. I got the feeling we were at the wrong place at the wrong time, and much to close (if not over) the border line. What added i think to their anxiety was that we were parked off the road a good distance into the desert and had driven the entire way with our lights off. At first they actually overshot our location driving at high speeds in an attempt to locate us, then i think they were radioed in from some observation post as to our location, slammed on their brakes and went like hell towards us.

Uh D: Honestly I think that for your own safety running away could end up being the wrong thing to do because if they manage to catch you after being all pissed up from having to chase a scared person that they were just trying to say, "please clear the area sir we are conducting experiments" may end up in

"SIR STEP OUT OF YOUR CAR WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR" with guns pointed toward you and a really angry army dude (Ex or no if a merc was in the army they are an Army Dude to me)

Just something to take into consideration before speeding away from the military or any legal form of protection to the country be it local or not

I used to camp right on the border, on top of "Freedom Ridge" with a spectacular view of the base, and never had any trouble. The guards watched me from a distance and changed shifts about every four hours.

On more recent camping trips, now beyond view of the base, I have seen the guards take up station to observe, but drive off if anyone approached them.

I have had a few MH-60G helicopters fly over, but never take aggressive action.

Just something to take into consideration before speeding away from the military or any legal form of protection to the country be it local or not

I agree with your comments, if it was a police car or ANY marked car i would have been forced to stop out of common sense. Honestly my first ignorant impression was that it was the rancher himself or his sons (if he has any) drunk and possibly angry for my tresspassing on their property. I didnt really think about the area 51 guard aspect until they turned around. This was my first encounter with the camo dudes and I wasnt expecting to even see them until i started to see border signs.... how wrong i was.. Also i could not see into their truck for camo as they had several mounted spot lights and brights directly on me. I dont know what to say, i realize turning around especially after they jumped out in retrospect wasnt the brightest idea, however the flight or flight response kicked in and i felt like something very bad other than a civil conversation was about to occur. Honestly i think either we were suspecious for driving down the road with our lights off and hiding in the desert, or we were too close to the border or even across it, or they KNEW something was going to be flying overhead and were forced to evacuate the area from prying eyes.

On a side note the owner of the alienn resturant told us that if some was to put there hand on the sign or even move a finger past the border sign, that the guards would immediatly arrest you on the spot, put machine guns to your head and put your face in the dirt until the police arrived. I dont know if she told us this to scare off ignorant tourists, or if she was speaking from experience. She told me several stories were this actually happened to other visitors and a different story about a news camera crew being arrested and losing all their gear. One last interesting point was that owner seemed to me to know more than what she was telling us. I had the paranoid feeling that she knew someone on the inside and possibly communicates with them often. I really really got the feeling that she was hiding something about her interactions with the base. She did mention that she servers dinner sometimes to the border guards, scientists working inside, and to foreign military elements visiting the base... so who knows..

It is true that many people associated with area 51 eat at the Inn as it is the only restaurant with the exception of 2 in Alamo which are 52 miles away. When Red Flatg is on many of the radar operators as well as some pilots and private contractors eat there. Why would you think that Pat Travis would have any communication with the base? Steve Medlin owns the ranch on the border and some of us have been there a number of times and have never encountered the cammos.

Why would you think that Pat Travis would have any communication with the base?

Are you reffering to THE Pat C. Tavis ? pure speculation on my part nothing more, intuition based on some of her answers. To me she seemed to know alot more than she was revealing. Not claiming she works for the base, however i think she does have some frequent direct contact with someone on the inside.

Steve Medlin owns the ranch on the border and some of us have been there a number of times and have never encountered the cammos.

of course i know who owns the ranch and i've been there several times as well. Have you driven past his ranch and up the mountain around 3 am with your lights off and driven into the desert? Maybe there is something I did that sets them off with this... i personally have no idea what specifically i did to instigate this response. Honestly i assumed this is their normal response to "visitors" and i was SHOCKED to get myself into the dangerous position i was in. I can only explain exactly what happened as it occured.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by hiii_98]

Oh, yeah. Someone at dreamland resort was saying when they camped out in front of the border to watch whatever happened, they came down and asked them how they were doing in their jeep.

I doubt they take their job seriously.

EBE 17,

The Cammo Duds are human beings! Just because they are occasionally friendly, doesn't mean they don't do their job. At an Armed Forces Day airshow at Andrews AFB, MD, I posed for a photo with a guard protecting an F-117 Nighthawk.

Do you think he wasn't paying attention to security just because he stopped for a photo?

Tim

Sometimes stories about the "cammo dudes" get blown out of proportion over time as they are retold and embellished.

Take this one for example: "A news crew was arrested and had all of its gear confiscated."

In 1994, an ABC News crew with field reporter Jimmy Walker was detained briefly by the Lincoln County Sherriff because the Range Patrol had accused them of videotaping the Groom Lake base. Walker offered immediate and irrefutable proof of innocence: he would allow the Sherriff's deputy to view all of the footage and see that the base never appeared on camera. The deputy refused to view the tape because he claimed he was "not cleared to view classified material." In fact, the same deputy had personally viewed the base from Freedom Ridge numerous times. If ABC had videotaped the base, it would have been nothing the deputy hadn't already seen in the course of his duties.

He confiscated the ABC camera equipment and presumably turned it over to Air Force officials. All equipment and tapes were eventually returned to ABC and the footage (completely intact and uncensored) was used for a program on ABC World News Tonight with Peter Jennings. The news crew was not arrested.

The story is retold from time to time, with varying levels of drama, and usually by people who weren't there.

wow i guess there are fat out of shape camo dudes. this definatly is NOT one of the ones i saw when i visited.. but its does go against my argument that they are dangerous people... (i'm trying to look at this topic objectively)

Here you want some stories similiar to my own? Here you go...

"Seven Las Vegans face trespassing counts in Lincoln County after they were arrested near the Air Force's secret Groom Lake base, where they said they were surrounded by men in camouflage fatigues who pointed automatic rifles at them"

they were suddenly surrounded by men wearing camouflage fatigues who aimed M-16s at them.

"They held us at gun point, searched our vehicles, and detained us for approximately two hours before the Highway Patrol came.

www.reviewjournal.com...


[edit on 12-2-2007 by hiii_98]

Maybe it's like Redstone Arsenal, who you get for guard duty on a particular day varies with the work going on on the base.

You can tell when they have live nukes by the guard change - I won't say to what, but it's blatant if you know what to look for. If it's the 'heavyset' older National Guard types with empty magazines, there's nothing critical happening that day.

Maybe you get meaner, more active camo dudes at Groom when something's up, and the less aggressive ones when it's makework time.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Sometimes stories about the "cammo dudes" get blown out of proportion over time as they are retold and embellished.

Take this one for example: "A news crew was arrested and had all of its gear confiscated."

In 1994, an ABC News crew with field reporter Jimmy Walker was detained briefly by the Lincoln County Sherriff because the Range Patrol had accused them of videotaping the Groom Lake base. Walker offered immediate and irrefutable proof of innocence: he would allow the Sherriff's deputy to view all of the footage and see that the base never appeared on camera. The deputy refused to view the tape because he claimed he was "not cleared to view classified material." In fact, the same deputy had personally viewed the base from Freedom Ridge numerous times. If ABC had videotaped the base, it would have been nothing the deputy hadn't already seen in the course of his duties.

He confiscated the ABC camera equipment and presumably turned it over to Air Force officials.

I would offer this as an additional point of 'explanation'. I would guess ALOT of people read about this far, day 1 of the 'occurance', and that's the end of that. They never find out that people returned the equipment, etc, etc, because that's not 'juicy'.

i think its a double edged sword for the security forces. On one hand they are authorized to shoot to kill and are prepared at a moments notice to do so... on the other hand...if they do practically ANYTHING ..the media will be all over the story and will bring the last thing the base wants...more attention. If your going to be a super secret base that "doesnt exist".. its hard to deny its presense if you have guards detaining, harassing, and executing civilians. I think their hands are tied in this regard... however IF something serious did prompt their action, then given the need for secrecy from the public eye... wouldnt they do something to make the event as if it never occured

I think the guards their are armed a little to extreme don't you think? I mean it's in the middle of the desert! I mean they should only be armed with stunguns and nothing too lethal for starters. It's absurd

7A

Norio you're the model government smoke screen.

I have a question about the security at Area 51 that stems from some research done years back:

Are any of the security people at Groom Lake NSA?

Back when ATS conducted a research investigation into Groom Lake, we foud documents suggesting that the base had people from the National Security Agency doing security. Is there any truth to this?

Tim