George Herbert Walker Bush, Jr. AHEAD of Dean by 20%!!!!!

Originally posted by Gazrok

what right have been limited then?

Oh boy....where to begin...???

I didn't even realize how far-reaching it was, until I went to the bank the other day, to deposit (not even cash mind you, just deposit) a check my fiance' signed over to me. You see, I work near my bank, she works across town. We both work during hours that the bank is open. But, thanks to the Patriot Act, I can no longer do this. She has to be, get this....PHYSICALLY PRESENT, in order to do this? I'm not sure what world these jokers are living in....but this means I have to drive across town, pick her up (during our lunch hour), then go to the bank, deposit the check, and then take her back to work, and then go back to work myself (all of this just isn't happening in an hour).

That's just one off the top of my head. I also travel alot for my job. Don't even get me started on the little changes post 911...(I still chuckle when trying to think of any possible way to use nail clippers as a viable weapon...and then realize that my shoelaces (when used as a garotte), would make a far better weapon....) I don't mind a little extra security, but some of it just is ridiculous...

Then there are the detainees. The government's right to spy on it's citizens has grown exponentially, and many of the obstacles that protected us from such intrusion, have been obliterated. Do you have any idea how long they could detain you, without trial, if suspected of terrorism?

We've lost something alright....not the farm yet, not be a long shot....but it isn't alarming what we lost, but more alarming that we simply gave it away so quickly, from a little "boo" from an international boogeyman...

Disclaimer: While I'm no fan of Bush (the man is an idiot), I still don't think Dean has a prayer....especially when the trump card of Osama is played before the next election....

Gazrok, you are right-on again. Our freedoms are disappearing quickly, some by chance and some by design. I agree that we are likely to see Osama captured sometime next summer, just before the election. I wonder in the "capture" of Saddam right before a major econcomic boost (Holiday shopping) is correlated in any way or simply chance.

When things start to correlate consistently and frequently, you can't help but wonder if there is some secret society or wealthy elite playing the world like puppets. I've read that the USSR and USA are both controlled by the same people and are simply two different experiements to determine the best way to control the world.

We'll likely know soon enough.

Peace,

+Jammer

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
what right have been limited then?

OMFG does anyone read anymore. Just watch reality tv or faux news!!


Typical Library sign more at www.librarian.net...
Here's a good article but it's old there has been even more changes in fact the day the found Saddam they stole some more freedom.


Civil Liberties Lost

By Chris Anderson
This article appeared in the July 4th edition of THE INDYPENDENT the print publication of the New York Indymedia Collective

Some libraries in California now have signs that read: �Records of the books and other materials you borrow from this library may be obtained by federal agents.� Why?

Under the USA Patriot Act, the FBI and other federal officials can request the records of any library patron. Librarians are forced to comply and are barred from telling anyone that the inquiry was made. Libraries must also hand over records of Internet sites browsed by patrons.

What other personal records can the government now secretly obtain?

Student, banking and travel records as well as records of electronic transactions will all likely be collected in government databases. Under the oversight of disgraced ex Iran Contra official Admiral John Poindexter, the Bush administration has authorized research of a total information awareness system, which would mine public data available on every citizen from banking to travel records to construct a �terrorist profile.� In response to concerns about Big Brother, the administration has changed the program name to �Terrorist Information Awareness.� But critics say the program will not only target terror suspects.

That sounds like something out of 1984. Is it really possible?

Yes. While the terrorist information awareness network is still years away, the nation�s airlines have begun testing a similar program called CAPPS-II that mines public databases to determine the threat level of every passenger.

If I get arrested, will conversations with my attorney be confidential?

Maybe not. Federal agents can now legally eavesdrop on conversations between lawyers and their clients, if the attorney general argues that the case may involve terrorism. New York lawyer Lynne Stewart is currently being prosecuted under this regulatory change.

After Cointelpro was exposed in the early 1970s, the FBI was ordered to stop spying in churches and at political meetings. Is this still true?

No. New regulations allow FBI agents to secretly attend any public meeting including political or religious meetings without even the okay of FBI Headquarters.

Is it really true that the government could jail me, bar me from seeing an attorney and keep me locked up forever without ever pressing charges?

Yes. The government is currently holding three men, including two U.S. citizens as �enemy combatants.� The longest serving one is Jose Padilla of Brooklyn. He has been held in solitary confinement on a military brig in South Carolina for over a year without access to an attorney, without a chance to appeal his case or to hear the evidence against him. He could be held forever without being charged with a crime.

What about non-U.S. citizens, can they be held indefinitely?

At Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, the military is holding 680 men, ranging in age from 14 to seniors, most of whom were captured in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The government claims they are not prisoners of war. Some may face a �military tribunal� which the Bush administration is planning to use to try foreigners suspected of terrorism captured in the United States or overseas.

I heard some immigrants have to �register� with the government? Who has to register and what happens with them to once they register? What happens if they don�t register?

Most adult, non-citizen males from the following countries have to register: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Algeria, Eritrea, Lebanon, North Korea, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, Yemen, UAE, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait. Of the 82,000 who registered, some 13,000 are now facing deportation in what makes for the biggest mass deportation of immigrants since the Palmer Raids following World War I. Those who don�t register also face deportation.

I am a U.S. citizen, do I really need to worry about any of these new anti-terrorism laws, they seem to focus only on immigrants?

The Justice Department is pushing for a vast expansion of the Patriot Act. Known as the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, or Patriot II, the bill would give the government unprecedented authority to strip the citizenship of Americans believed to support terrorist organizations. According to the bill, a U.S. citizen can be stripped of citizenship if he or she �becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United States has designated as a �terrorist organization,� if that group is engaged in hostilities against the United States.�

Can the government make secret arrests and detentions?

Yes. The federal court of appeals in Washington, D.C., ruled on June 17 that the Justice Department can secretly detain immigrants without ever publicly releasing their names, the reason for the arrests or the names of their attorneys.

Is protesting still legal?

Sometimes. In South Carolina Brett Bursey faces six months in jail and a $5,000 fine for holding up a sign that read �No War For Oil� outside a speech by President Bush. The charge? Threatening the safety of the president.

I have heard lots of protests about how the government detained thousands of immigrants after Sept. 11. What does the government say about it?

On June 2, the Justice Department released an internal study that found the FBI made little effort to distinguish between immigrants who were suspected of involvement of terrorism and those picked up on immigration charges. Some detainees were barred phone access preventing them from informing their family members or legal counsel about their situation. The report also criticized the FBI�s blanket �no bond� policy for immigrants held after Sept. 11. In addition, the report found, detainees in Brooklyn suffered verbal and physical abuse.

Of those picked up after Sept. 11, how many have been charged with crimes related to terrorism?

One. Of the detainees, only Zacarias Moussaoui has been charged with crimes related to terrorism. 500 have been deported. The remaining detainees are either awaiting deportation or are being charged with lesser crimes.

[Edited on 19-12-2003 by DiRtYDeViL]

You people are nutty as fruitcakes.

Do you think honestly that none of the above would happen after 9/11 in a Democratic or otherwise admin??

If you are not involved in criminal activity- keep nyour shorts on and have a beer.

The new world order is coming, whoever is in command- it will not be instigated by an American. Europe will lead the way in that regard...go pick on Belgium....

All I know is that come election time, I'm voting for Banshee.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
You people are nutty as fruitcakes.

Do you think honestly that none of the above would happen after 9/11 in a Democratic or otherwise admin??

I don't believe 9/11 would have happened period. 9/11 is just the Operation Northwood plan that got approved. Yes Bush is behind 9/11 so is Cheney and the rest of the scum bag Elite click on my sig Terrorism is a great political tool.

[Edited on 20-12-2003 by DiRtYDeViL]

When people find out how soft the Dem Dean really is on criminals, and terrorists and third world creepy nations then they will leave him in droves.

Originally posted by THENEO
When people find out how soft the Dem Dean really is on criminals, and terrorists and third world creepy nations then they will leave him in droves.

He supports the death penalty and gun rights. What more could a rabid right wing extremist such as yourself want? Hell you morons would support a big government, big entitlement, big social program president if he was called a republican oh wait you already are his name is George W. Bush.