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AtS'er aren't very well liked.

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posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 06:56 AM
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I used the Mayans simply as a example everyone here can relate too. I could have said toilet cleaning but it didnt sound as eloquent.

My post alone says a lot about society, huh?

My concern was brought to people with open minds to be better understood. Those open minded, enlightened people read me exactly as my post was meant... humble and lacking of knowledge.

Others, less enlightened, attacked me with their ego. Ego and enlightenment CAN NOT co-exist.

I made it clear I dont preach, dont even bring things up... didnt I?

Thats kind of my whole point.




posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 07:21 AM
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Keep reading and posting Little One.

I know it can be frustrating sometime when all around you seem to just go with the flow and swallow the official line on everything, never questioning and accepting the status quo.
Heck, even on these boards there seem to be a lot of people who are just here to defend the official take on everything and try to shout down and belittle anyone with an alternative viewpoint. So many people these days just seem to blindly accept everything and are either incapable of researching something to make up their own minds or are scared to question anything.
I've always questioned everything from an early age and was encouraged to do so by my parents.

Don't get downbeat about it, there are those of us out there with the same enquiring minds and we won't let those with closed minds deter us


By the way, NC is a beautiful state. I love the mountains



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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Smallpeeps, my quote box is acting stupid, sorry.

You posted: "Directly put, I am very interested in the perspective of native persons on ATS, and I am not alone in this. Please share no information you woldn't want shared with the whole world of course, because that is where ATS resides.

A while back there was a native American ATS member who killed himself and I alwayts felt bad for this guy. I often wonder why native life in America involves such a difficult transition from childhood to adulthood. I wonder about the stresses which this world puts on native American children".


(paraphrased to shorten post)

Wow smallpeeps, you can see, I dont have to explain.


No, actually, people of all races have always been cool with 'me'. Now, remember, I can only speak for me. People fear us because of us being known as quick to open woop ass. Not true, unless provoked and its usually based on principle. Do me wrong and I am going to face you for an explanation. Its just how we are. Very good communicators.

Loyal, people like that in me... us. We make friends slow but once in, youre family. I will die to give anyone I love breath.

Im often asked where I come from. 2 reasons. I have a very strong southern accent (born and raised in the mnts of NC) and I look (to people that dont realize we still exist) quote 'exotic'. I aways hoped that was a compliment. People take me for Hawaiin.

I have been both beaten and hugged on this thread so I need encouragement to get much deeper. Self-protection or common sense? You be the judge!




[edit on 11-2-2007 by Little One]


Dae

posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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Before the internet I thought I was so alone! When it was really bad I would wish I could become like the people around me, accepting and following the 'faith' they had in their society. Noone had the excitement or wonder of the world or the curiosity on how it all worked. I have to admit friends and family loved reading my Fortean Times mags when I got them in!

So the internet, I found crazy people who believe the earth is flat! Awsome, now I can read about everything I would ever want to and stuff I never knew existed! When I got a computer that was net worthy in dec 2000 I was like a child, I was taken in by sheer amount of information available.

Still, I heard friends and family complain about how theres not much on the net, its boring, just 'chat'. But of course this time it didnt matter, for me it was programming, reading, gaming, designing, learning, chat, messege boards, more reading and of course ATS, the only place on the net where I post and learn with such consistency!

So anyway, it was a dark time for me before I found the net and found I wasnt alone, so welcome to ATS Little one, you are one of the thousand reasons I dont feel disconnected anymore, yay!


Dae

posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Little One
I have been both beaten and hugged on this thread so I need encouragement to get much deeper.


Ach, pay no attention to the tone of Apes post, he is a sweety really, and you smacked him down rather well too



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Little OneNo, actually, people of all races have always been cool with 'me'. Now, remember, I can only speak for me. People fear us because of us being known as quick to open woop ass. Not true, unless provoked and its usually based on principle. Do me wrong and I am going to face you for an explanation. Its just how we are. Very good communicators.

Yes. A person can have a lot of information but the communication of it can be difficult. Similarly, the native person might like to communicate an idea or a story or some portion of the knowledge they've gained, but so too, they are not able to explain all that needs to be explained, so they remain quiet. If the audience is not able to grasp the basics of what you are saying, I suppose silence and stoicism might be a substitute.

Similarly the ATS member might try to explain something to an ignorant joe on the street, and it becomes difficult, because there are so many underlying ideas and truths which must be grasped.



I have been both beaten and hugged on this thread so I need encouragement to get much deeper. Self-protection or common sense? You be the judge!


Yes I do understand. Personally I was intrigued by the mention of your granny. I believe it's a credit to the native ways that women are given honor and a special place. Also do I think that age gives wisdom, and native people seem to realize this more than the average American. I wish more Americans would listen to native stories more. I also wish more people read ATS.

Anyway, I enjoy your posts Little One so feel free to keep it up.


[edit on 11-2-2007 by Little One]



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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My Granny!

She was a small framed woman but we ate good to be poor. We ate a lot of beans, potatoes, collards... whatever came of the earth. And some of us ate meat. Granny was small but as big around as a burning barrel! I remember hugging her and just falling in. haha

I dont like meat. It isnt about useless slaughter (thats going to occur if I eat it or not) but I simply cant eat an animal. Even a chicken or a pig.

Where I grew up, all of the animals were my friends and pets. But, they all, as we all, had their jobs. Mine was gathering the eggs! Very fun!

I know have a strong love for parrots and own 3. No cage of course. They know where Mama's at. I wouldnt keep them if I had to cage them to be with me. I got them as featherless chickies, about 4 weeks old. Now, one is 1.5 and one is 3 yrs old.

Well, granny was hard-core and determined to 'break my spirit' before I grew up. I was too growny and had an opinion about everything! She didnt mind that, it was the sharing of my opinions that caused her the most pain.

On the rez, its common, due to drugs and alcohol, for your grandparents to raise you. Many times, some of the kids parents slide in and out through the child's life. Sounds nice huh?

It wasnt. My mama never came down that dirt road to see me and Im thankful because my granny was good to me. She gave me enough love, strength and knowledge in the 15 yrs we had together than a mother and father could have in a lifetime. When she past, I was screwed and on the run.

She and I were blessed to know in advance so she prepared me very well in the time she had left. She didnt want me in Foster and felt I could make it. So, I was told by her to dip when noone was all over me, as soon after she past as possible.

Some pack bags waiting for a baby. We packed mine waiting on her trip. I did as I was told. And I made it.

My mama would have only used me in whatever way she could have to promote her lifestyle. She always kept my brother though and that hurt. But, granny would pull me between her knees, hold my hands in hers and ensure me: Baby, I dont know how you can miss someone you have never even known but I promise you one day you will understand all of this and be so happy you were left with your ol granny.

Then she'd drag me into her lap and give me good loving. Loving my mother would have never given me. No regrets. In fact, I thank my mother for sparing me. She raised my brother into an addict.

Im doing great.

I want to tell stories... thats really how people get the idea of her.

Oh, she was Southern Baptist, as am I. Never missed a day in church but cursed like a sailor. When she past the whole town went to show her love. My perfect escape!

My Paw-Paw was still alive so everyone assumed I'd just stay with him. He couldnt care for himself and granny didnt want me trying to care for him (big man). So, at this point Im 15.

Am I giving you what ya'll are looking for? Feel stupid talking about this... why would anyone care? But, do love to keep her alive in my thoughts and words... in anyway I can.

I was the 17th youngen she raised. She had 14 children. So, three of my cousins were more like my brothers. Bless her heart, if anyone had a youngen they didnt want, she'd sure take them in. She raised youngens from 16 til the day she died. Only I left, the other two she seemed not as concerned with. I believe she thought the rez might be the best place for them to stay.

She wanted me OFF. She felt very strongly about this. One day I said, 'Granny when I get big Imma have grass and a palm tree in my yard'. She threw a string bean at me (we were all shelling peas) and told me, 'child you read too much'.

I have really thick grass and several palm trees in my yard now.

2 of us turned out great. One of us had a long bought with drugs and alcohol but is getting it back together. I reckon granny just couldnt get out of his head.



Thats skimming the surface of her and why I was with her. Continue?



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Little One
Continue?


Please do, Little One.

I'm very much enjoying this thread. I believe it has the potential to be beneficial for a great many reasons.

Smallpeeps, you mentioned trouble could come uot of sharing Native American medicine. No doubt much resentment remains, but I was lucky enough to meet some wonderful people who shared powerful medicine with everyone, regardless of race.

One of them is William Commanda, at 93, a great and very wise Elder. You can google his name and I'm sure you won't be faced with a meagre bunch of hits.

Once again...this is a great thread!!!



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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By all means, please continue !!
Maybe it's the voyeur in me, but I love hearing others relate what has shaped their being. Maybe it will help me understand my life, in some way.
Also, I'm notorious for relating my life to people I meet IRL. Not so much on a website. Not sure why.

Anyway, as long as you feel comfy and continue to relay "Tales of the Little One", I'll continue to read them.


On pins and pine needles,
Lex



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Little One
I know have a strong love for parrots and own 3. No cage of course. They know where Mama's at. I wouldnt keep them if I had to cage them to be with me. I got them as featherless chickies, about 4 weeks old. Now, one is 1.5 and one is 3 yrs old.

Parrots are really interesting birds and they have a lot of personality. Do yours talk at all? I guess its macaws that talk mostly but I know parrots can also because I saw it at the Wild Animal Park in Escondido. They had singing and talking parrots.

I drive on the highway a lot and there are hawks which always seem to be sitting on the same fenceposts when I drive by. I'll see them in the distance and as I drive by, I get that snap-shot image at the last moment of that hawk looking right at me. I know it's all in the mind, but why are there all these hawks around me? BTW I'm in California where there's a huge wildlife preserve (central valley) and I see all kinds of cool birds around this area. Cranes, geese, eagles, you name it, I've seen it. But my favorite bird is still the hummingbird. I have a feeder right out my window and they buzz up like helicopters to fill their bellies. But man they get irritated when the feeder's not out! Buzzing my window and chirping super loud.



Well, granny was hard-core and determined to 'break my spirit' before I grew up. I was too growny and had an opinion about everything! She didnt mind that, it was the sharing of my opinions that caused her the most pain.

This is an interesting comment about the sharing of your opinions with granny. What was it that caused pain about it? Also I like the term "growny".




On the rez, its common, due to drugs and alcohol, for your grandparents to raise you. Many times, some of the kids parents slide in and out through the child's life. Sounds nice huh?

It wasnt. My mama never came down that dirt road to see me and Im thankful because my granny was good to me. She gave me enough love, strength and knowledge in the 15 yrs we had together than a mother and father could have in a lifetime. When she past, I was screwed and on the run.

Now Little One, I know this is true. I have seen this myself, and also it makes me think about a large, pervasive situation which exists among tribes in America. It's almost as if there's a consipracy against proper care for indians. Truthfully, there's a lot of surface action being done to help, but the real places these kids need help is where it's lacking. But then people see the casinos and they think, "Oh, well indians got nothing to whine about now!" but that money never gets into the reservations.



She and I were blessed to know in advance so she prepared me very well in the time she had left. She didnt want me in Foster and felt I could make it. So, I was told by her to dip when no one was all over me, as soon after she past as possible.

Some pack bags waiting for a baby. We packed mine waiting on her trip. I did as I was told. And I made it.

I am wondering here if you're saying that when granny died, she told you to sneak out off the res? Sounds like your situation wasn't too different from other native girls I've talked to. Dang it's a hard life for indian women, that's for sure.



Am I giving you what ya'll are looking for? Feel stupid talking about this... why would anyone care? But, do love to keep her alive in my thoughts and words... in anyway I can.

Yes, I think this is a great thread because of your granny. I think there is a significant opportuinty here to address a demographic of ATS which is important to many people. ATS has most of its members in the USA and this country is forever tied to the native peoples within it. I think the title of your thread is addressable, but I think you have special insight to offer on that subject, which is why it's appropriate that you started this thread.

Nice work, and I am sure you will help to clarify the chasms between some groups, be they tribal, material or ideaological.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 06:30 AM
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BEING INDIAN IS...
having a large family of over a million brothers and sister!

BEING INDIAN IS...
feeling that Little Bear, Prays-for-All, Big Heart
are more beautiful names than Jones, Smith, or
Brown.

BEING INDIAN IS...
watching cowboys shoot to kill 40 of your kind, with a six-shot revolver on the TV late show without getting a scratch.

BEING INDIAN IS...
observing your children watching that same cowboy and Indian TV western movie and cheering for the cowboys.

BEING INDIAN IS...
joining the U.S. Army to save your country from the perils of aggression.
And, at the same time, being against the U.S. Army. Because the Army Corps of Engineers are on your homeland and we need to deter them from stealing your sacred land.

BEING INDIAN IS...
graduating from a government Bureau of
Indian Affairs school
and not being able to read a 6th grade English book
from you white friend's urban school.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having your child come home from school
and ask you about the "strange beliefs"
of the Indians that his/her teacher mentioned in school today.

BEING INDIAN IS...
never making quick evaluations of people
but reserving judgment until their actions show
what kind of people they really are.

BEING INDIAN IS...
feeding anyone and everyone who comes to your door
with whatever you have.

BEING INDIAN IS...
knowing The Great Spirit.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having a Christian missionary tell you
it is wrong to believe in more than
one Divine Being, then listening to him tell you about God, Jesus Christ,
The Holy Ghost, the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, St. Patrick, St. Christopher, St. Francis, your spirit, your soul, etc.

BEING INDIAN IS...
never giving up
the struggle for survival.

BEING INDIAN IS...
standing up for life principles and
truths, unashamed,
without having compromised your values.

BEING INDIAN IS...
not only being proud of who you were born from
but mindful of how you conduct yourself
in the world.

BEING INDIAN IS...
to have your liberal white friends urge you to
follow the same path as your Black brothers to
gain some advantage.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having your friends and relatives accuse you of being a traitor if you
seek an education, earn more than $7,000 a year, wear a white shirt and tie,
drive a car less than three years old, and live in a three bedroom home.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having heard your grandparents and yourself say,
"When they honor the treaties and we get our
land claim payments"...
then suddenly realizing your children are saying
the same words.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having your non-Indian friends go on a Vison Quest, led by a white man to the mountains, but leaving you home because you can't make the $300
registration fee to attend.

BEING INDIAN IS...
listening to your well-intentioned white brother try to tell you about your native spirituality.

BEING INDIAN IS...
hearing from non-Indians how rotten the government has treated Indians
but still voting them back into office.

BEING INDIAN IS...
listening to people tell you about their grandmother or great-grandmother
that was a Cherokee Indian Princess. We are a humble people. Other than Chief we give no titles. Never has there been a 'Cherokee Princess'

BEING INDIAN IS...
seeing other Indians in search of an Indian identity.

BEING INDIAN IS...
being greeted by non-Indians with pseudo names from real ancestors of your tribe.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having to prove with documentation that you are one,
when other races and people in the country don't have to.

BEING INDIAN IS...
knowing that your ancestors were slaughtered like animals in the name of
Christianity and then being told that Christianity is out to save us.

BEING INDIAN IS...
buying "authentic" Indian jewelry made in Taiwan or Japan.

BEING INDIAN IS...
learning of people becoming Indian without having an Indian mother or father.

BEING INDIAN IS...
finding out that people think all Indians lived in tipis. The Cherokee never built a single tipi... we lived in rocks and caves... later grass topped cabins.

BEING INDIAN IS...
being told that Columbus discovered America from his ship,
when we were watching him from shore.

BEING INDIAN IS...
trying to relate to people who say they are (mathematically) 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc. degree of blood.

BEING INDIAN IS...
wearing braids and being called a "hippie" by those who object to long hair.

BEING INDIAN IS...
going to school when you're young and having the teacher
skip over the Indian chapter in the history book

BEING INDIAN IS...
seeing others forget the true meaning of Thanksgiving.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having others make jokes about your heritage and culture.

BEING INDIAN IS...
living in two worlds.

BEING INDIAN IS...
knowing the word "Indian" is not your true name.

BEING INDIAN IS...
being called "Chief" or "Tonto" by patronizing non-Indians.

Please know, the term squaw is an awful insult meaning the ugly, unmarried woman in the tribe, generally. I cant count the time guys have tried to swoon me with this line. Talk about BACKFIRE. Same applies with 'princess'. Dont come to me with that #... just proves you're stupid before I have to do any research or waste any time.

BEING INDIAN IS...
being human, with human thoughts and feelings like your non-Indian brothers and sisters.

BEING INDIAN IS...
holding onto a piece of paper treaty that was signed but never honored.

BEING INDIAN IS...
knowing alcohol doesn't make you Indian, just drunk.

BEING INDIAN IS...
seeing elders die and the language & customs die with them.

BEING INDIAN IS...
seeing Mother Earth destroyed by those who don't know Her.

BEING INDIAN IS....
hearing others think all Indians wear war bonnets.

BEING INDIAN IS...
seeing the government spend billions of dollars abroad but fail to honor the Indian treaties.

BEING INDIAN IS...
sad.

BEING INDIAN IS... hard.

BEING INDIAN IS...
crying.

BEING INDIAN IS...
laughing.

BEING INDIAN IS...
forever.

Those are *my* thoughts and feelings on being A Native American Cherokee. Other natives, my have other thoughts and feelings. I can only share mine. I hope it helps.

*blows Kisses* Im out to Naples today but always have my laptop. Talk to ya'll tonight!



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Little One
BEING INDIAN IS...
never making quick evaluations of people
but reserving judgment until their actions show
what kind of people they really are.

I can confirm this. One of the best compliments paid to me by native people is when they say, "You are always the same person. You are consistent." Not in those words of course, but they communicate to you when they respect you, and they tell you why. Native peoples seem to respect realness, for lack of a better word.



BEING INDIAN IS...
knowing The Great Spirit.

BEING INDIAN IS...
having a Christian missionary tell you
it is wrong to believe in more than
one Divine Being, then listening to him tell you about God, Jesus Christ,
The Holy Ghost, the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, St. Patrick, St. Christopher, St. Francis, your spirit, your soul, etc.

This relates to the title of the thread. Differences of beliefs and awareness will cause communication gaps between cultures. Try telling a non-ATS reader about the things here, and the eyelid of their mind will slowly drop shut. Similarly, try to tell a Christian about native beliefs and the glassy look in their eyes is the same.

I will respond more later, but thanks so much Little One for this thread. There will be greater communication between peoples because of your work. Of this I am certain.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Little One, I feel your pain.

I don't have many friends. Mostly because I don't talk to very many people. Why? Well, what am I going to talk to them about? Most of the things I know and have studied, the average individual knows absolutely nothing about and will be quick to tell you they don't really care. If it doesn't directly involve them, it is not of any concern to them.

This attitude is not only ignorant, but very short sighted. Yet. my entire family and most of the people I have ever had contact with is of that mindset.

They'd rather talk about video games or movies than about any subject tht interests me. I bring up certain subjects and they look at me as if to say, "Are you insane? What are you even talking about?"



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Native peoples seem to respect realness


Yes, real... we bring that and want that. But society isnt like that and the child-like honesty can make life really hard.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Little One
Yes, real... we bring that and want that. But society isnt like that and the child-like honesty can make life really hard.


Yes. In line with the thread's title, I think this might give us a better understanding of why people react negatively to ATS'ers they encounter.

What's "real" to them? Lies are real to them. When we start talking to them, it's like grabbing an invisible cage they're in and shaking it violently.

They are conditioned to see only appearances, which is essential for the lies to hold. But as you know, native peoples are less concerned with appearances and more concerned with reality.

Perhaps it could be said that this desire for reality is a shared trait of both ATS'ers and native peoples. Certainly it can be said that there are those for whom reality depends totally on what they see, not what is real. Similarly does the native person see that America exists mostly on chimerical and unreal behaviors.

I like how the poet John Trudell says it, "Your mind for a hairdryer." That's the trade which is made in American life sometimes; believe in the lies and life will be easier. Find reality and prepare to feel pain and lose conveniences. But still, the truth does set free.



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 06:19 AM
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I am very glad I started this thread now. People will understand my words as they are meant now.


Like the title, to me, it shows unity. To others (at first) it was an all out attack. This steaming directly from the ego.

We are ATS'ers... a family in and of itself. We share ideas, we pick on eachother with sarcasm when one of us are being temporarily stupid. Yep, sounds like a family to me. Do you 'like' everyone in your family? Probably a big fat NO!

In my experience, one single question arises from people whom know me.

Why are native americans so different? Very simple:

We lack ego, lacking ego takes away egoic responses, thoughts, actions and mind-sets. Although my God has blessed me with plenty... NONE of it sums up who I am. We DO NOT equate our possessions or success by our title or what we have parked in the driveway.

Dont confuse that with a lack of self-motivation or ambition. Thats the same with any culture, some what more, some are pieces of crap that dont deserve the salt in their bread because they dont want to work for it.

We measure who we are by whats in our hearts... not our garages and driveways. Without ego, you cant feel jealousy.

With ego, you can not reach enlightenment.

If I were in a box on the street I would still be the person I am today. Just live in a different place.

Thank you all so much for helping this thread along.

All in all, it feels like a really good thing.

I like ya'll white boys and girls, the black ones too. Whites are funny but odd in the sense they tend to be scared to look beyond their nose. Blacks... well, yall are just funny!


No blacks around these parts so much of what I have experienced has been on TV. Hip-hop makes me wanna shake my bootie! And I like to hear them talk.

I have a very... did I mention very... southern accent so its quiet a contrast to what I hear on TV with blacks. They talk in a way that makes me laugh... in a good way.

Ok, Ok, Heres me being white lol

Hello sir, how are you today? (which is how natives act in society, when in Rome, right?)

Ok, here is me being black:

Yo, B, you cool bro? -giggle-

Now, I remind you, this IS NOT being racial. A minority CAN NOT be racist because you must be of the MAJORITY to partake in racism.

This is just another way of me relating my world to yours.

At 'home' not many words needed to be spoken. Affection was high, we speak with our thoughts and actions. Reserve words for a good purpose, then when we speak others will be so shocked they listen.



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Little One

My Granny!

Well, granny was hard-core and determined to 'break my spirit' before I grew up. I was too growny and had an opinion about everything! She didnt mind that, it was the sharing of my opinions that caused her the most pain.


You ask me what caused her the most pain with this...

Example?

We went to church off of the rez, a southern baptist church. My granny drove which was very rare for an older woman. One day after church, we were all standing around talking and playing outside.

I came running up to granny for something, I dont remember. But, the preacher took me by the hands, leaned down and ask me, 'You are such a beautiful child, what do you want to do when you grow up'?'

I enthusiastically said! I want to wear a big ol bra and drive a car... just like my granny! and I ran off. Leaving her with the preacher mortified.


Boy, my aim was set high at 6



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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If it werent for ATS i'd have to be checked into a looney bin myself. NOBODY I KNOW cares if the world ends, the Mayan Calendar, Bush the exterminator, wars, famine bla bla bla...

That's why this is such a precious site, so all of us can come together and talk about these taboo things our families and neighbors and co-workers refuse to talk about.

I'm glad you're here and if you have any questions, post it and we will answer as well as we can.
Dont pay attention to those who debunk because we also have our share of them here.




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