US friendly fire

The US military are at it again Breaking News 5 kurd policemen shot dead mistakingly by the US in northern Iraq .


When will they learn?



Matty Hull RIP

[edit on 9-2-2007 by mojoberg]

Do you have a link to that story?

It sounds interesting...

Well, if the Kurd's were screaming stop or waving their hands about and it took Americans time to notice before taking them out, good aim.

I'm sorry to say, stuff like this is bound to happen due to the sole fact, the American army is in such a large quanity, incidents are bound to happen, when you are in the heat of action, andrenaline and the fear of your life will get to your head.

It's a simple mistake maybe, till we get more news from my view.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Galiega]

Originally posted by Galiega
Well, if the Kurd's were screaming stop or waving their hands about and it took Americans time to notice before taking them out, good aim.

I'm sorry to say, stuff like this is bound to happen due to the sole fact, the American army is in such a large quanity, incidents are bound to happen, when you are in the heat of action, andrenaline and the fear of your life will get to your head.

It's a simple mistake maybe, till we get more news from my view.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Galiega]

Maybe if the US used the same rules of engagment as the UK these problems would be minimised, "Do not shoot until shot upon." The coalition is not in a conventional war we are there as peacekeepers, not invaders! The rules of engagment in a peacekeeping operation need to be adhered to.

here is the link news.sky.com...

Originally posted by Galiega
Well, if the Kurd's were screaming stop or waving their hands about and it took Americans time to notice before taking them out, good aim.

I'm sorry to say, stuff like this is bound to happen due to the sole fact, the American army is in such a large quanity, incidents are bound to happen, when you are in the heat of action, andrenaline and the fear of your life will get to your head.

It's a simple mistake maybe, till we get more news from my view.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Galiega]

The US military are turning into a joke, these incidents are not in the heat of action im afraid the more we hear about these incidents it becomes clear that the US military are just too trigger happy who do not respect human life

I am British myself, but still respect the American for having troops there, without them there may indeed be total chaos.

I stick up for Americans due too the fact is that, most British people seem to indicate that every American soldier is trigger happy, the case is, they are not.
Some may be, but each one is a inviduel, and has their own thoughts of action.

I agree our British army has a nice set of rules of engagement, but sometimes there can be a downside as well.

The reason America gets the most Friendly fire incidents is strongly due to theirs army size, increasing their chances for a incident with an accident.

Yes, I will support the view that given the sheer size of the American contingent in relation to everyone else there is bound to be a greater chance of them being involved in this sort of incident. It is also true, sadly, that this same rule also means that the relative number of ill educated trigger happy goons is also correspondingly higher (for America has no monopoly of such soldiers) and it is these types that attract the bad publicity.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by waynos]

I don't know whether any of you are aware, but the Inquest has found that Matty Hull was Unlawfully Killed. This is so obviously against what the US has found.

I wonder if they [the pilots] will ever face a British court?

Mistakes do happen in war. I once shot a dog by mistake and my boss shot a cow. We were both young Toms and on our first Ops across the water. I was fined £250 for an ND.

I do so agree with Jimmy1880. Our Rules of Engagement are second to none, and are put in place for a reason.

Also, we now regard Iraq as a 'policing' action, whereas the US regards it as a warzone.

I think this is a very big mistake and I personally, would like to see ALL Coalition forces operating under the UN's Rules of Engagement - if they have any.

Theres actually quite a trend to U.S friendly fire sadly, it isnt as sporadic as people may like to think, of all U.S casualties since world war two and onwards it averages out to just under a quarter of them being directly attributed to friendly fire. It'll get much safer for our troops when the Americans leave and it's only the Iraqis firing at them.

Even back in WW2 there were jokes about about the US military...

"when the Germans fly over, the English duck. When the English fly over the Germans duck. And when the Americans fly over, everyone ducks!"

...pity the new generation of US 'smart' bombs are guided by dumb US pilots

Citizen Smith .....Wow thanks for giving us the IQ of the American pilots. I love dribble of hate. Can you back up your claim or blinded view that American pilots are of lower IQ than your country? Please reply.

We have a saying, It is a pity the new generation of "Smart posts" on ATS are posted from "dumb" citizens.

Citizen Smith-

Do you Realize that most Pilots from other Countries are trained here in the US? In the US Air Force we have progams in place so foreign militarys come here to learn how to Aviate, because our aviation programs are second to none.ENJPT — European-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (referred to as "Euro-NATO") This is located at a base in Texas.

Actually you are mistaken, they don't train only in your country. Most commonwealth fighter pilots train in every other commonwealth country.
Here in Canada, we also get alot of your US pilots to train, we also get some from britain, france, germany... and we're one of the few countries that joint train with russians once in a while. Man, those migs are something to look at!

It's all one huge joint training system you're seeing there... not a US owned training program.

As for you're top notch pilots... I wouldn't be placing so much admiration in them my friend... living on an air base for most of my life, you get a totally different view of just how well they are in fact trained... some of those guys, you'd be ashamed to call pilots. But you get that from all countries.

Johnsky-

I said that most or a portion of in better terms come to the US to learn to fly. I never stated that it was a US owned training program hence the ENJPT- European NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training that I carefully added to then end of statement. Correct it is all one huge joint training system.
As far as top notch goes I do place admiration in them Because I know for a fact that who I fly with in fact are highly qualified Pilots. In fact I have a whole squadron of them. Granted that you are correct there are some bad eggs out there thats why they dont stay in the cockpit very long. There is a long course of checks and balance that is in play that helps in weening out poor performers or improving poor performers.

Surely not mcgilligan02.

There are good pilots and there are inexperienced pilots. Militarily speaking from the Brit standpoint, they would never make it to Cranwell.

Why I was at RAF Biggin Hill during the late 70's, we had the Officer & Aircrew Selection Centre [OASC] on site and I can tell you guys that of the 200 odd personnel who attended briefings and medicals on a Friday night, at least 80% were binned by Sunday morning.

The Royal Air Force has always been selective and used to accept only the very best candidates. Even fully qualified pilots from Universary Air Squadrons were binned if not up to scratch.

Standards in the RAF have not dropped although the initial Selection process has been relaxed somewhat, in order to accomodate todays youth.

The trouble with flying a fast attack aircraft during peacetime is that apart from the odd live fire exercise, very many pilots never get to experience the rush of firing in anger.

Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf Wars I and II changed all that. Apart from the professional pilots in the various air forces, with the US National Guard, we have a timebomb waiting to explode.

I always shout long and hard about 'Blue on Blues' irrespective of which country in involved. However, where American pilots are involved, I think there is a tendancy on the part of a small minority to think 'WOW! This is my one chance to get some action for real!'

That is not to say that these guys are trigger happy sods but, in the heat of the moment, they may get carried away, often with tragic consequences.

This just doesn't happen to U.S. Marines ... as my best friend is/was training over in Afghanistan. He was stationed there in '02 ... he said he was training a elite police force for them. yet, he would not see some of these people for days at a time then they would be back. He would always question these people motives for being there. Evevtually after several suicide bombe3rs tried to get into the camp and kill some of the soldiers they finally started training these people off base.

If I were a third world country and I had a "Regime" of soldiers that thought they were trying to be taken over. They would revolt ... something like a revolution but you don't want the whole world you are trying to out the "GOOD GUY" that has come to help you control the "BAD GUY" that basically has such a strong hold on your country mainly due to Poppey seeds that produce drugs that you need to export to other countries so you can "FUND" your country. That would be the perfect cover up ... OK we are going to send these soldiers with you to protect this "TERRORISTS CELL" which is moving this "PRODUCT" and whenever they find and attack you because of the leaks from the "Good People" within the group of "Bad Guys" we can just act like the people that are trying to help this country are in reality looking like they are killing the Good Guys ... I mean who is going to say ... They opened up fire on us first ... or .. Verse Visa ... The ones that aren't dead RUN ... just like the YELLOW BELLY HIDE BEHIND THE PEOPLE that they are...

Originally posted by Galiega
Well, if the Kurd's were screaming stop or waving their hands about and it took Americans time to notice before taking them out, good aim.

I'm sorry to say, stuff like this is bound to happen due to the sole fact, the American army is in such a large quanity, incidents are bound to happen, when you are in the heat of action, andrenaline and the fear of your life will get to your head.

It's a simple mistake maybe, till we get more news from my view.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Galiega]

I'm sorry my friend, but training indiginous police forces has nothing to do with 'Blue on Blue' contacts.

YES! There are those stupid idiots who want to blow themselves up for their puppeteer masters or delusions of paradise in Allah's Perfumed Garden with vestel virgins - but we all know that is just crap!

That does not explain the stray artillery round or bomb falling on friendly troops or the deliberate attack by pilots on groups of men, women and children or unidentified ground troops.

There have always been friendly fire incidents throughout history and, until there is some way of identifying friendly forces, these incidents will continue.

However. Having said that, there is no excuse for anybody, to open fire on an unidentified target - especially if friendly forces are in the area.