On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

Originally posted by Drexon
Secondly, in the link Frozen posted you can see an illuminous UFO that's hovering above the lake, And it has a mountain/large hill in the background, supporting the theory of it hovering.

Thirdly, in one of the videos in the link you can see two Very similar craft hovering at an Angle above the lake, do regular aircraft do this?

Fourthly. Not at one point does the space between the lights either increase nor decrease, and last time I checked, planes have to fly at quite some speed to be able to stay airborne. Not even in the turns (banking) or when the lights fade away they do this. So if the angle of the headlights isn't what's making them fade away, what is? These craft seem to be displaying a 'crab walk'/free direction type of propulsion, not having to change the direction of the craft in order to fly in it, something I'VE seen up close(r).

(I'll stop the numbers now) Nowhere to be found are the typical blinking lights. I'm sure you know what they're called and what they do. I'm also sure you know how freakishly strong they have to be in order to be visible, but something tells me you won't be sharing this information with us, it doesn't support your theory after all.

Frozen> Good job in finding those. I think defcon here puts up a good fight, but you shouldn't let it bother you, you have your own video recording in your head to go by after all. Hope you find some more clips! The ones in the link you posted very all Very interesting, especially the 'Pillar of fire' ones. I'm sure you can find more similar footage.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Drexon]

I have many more clips, the most interesting is single ORBS of light instead of these Double ORBS, By the way, There is no hill or Mountain behind those objects, The next land you will come to is Canada.

I do agree that when the camera goes into Nightshot, it doeas kinda look like there is is a mountain or something there, I think that is because The lights are so bright, it had that effct on the Camera or something, But This area, CLeveland Area is Flat as can be.

Thanks for you kind word!

Originally posted by defcon5
[Good, maybe they can explain why they had to shut off the camera when the second aircraft started to “get close”? Why they never go back to the one that is landing, or why they did not leave the film in night vision mode where we could see the shore line as reference?

Ill tell you why, it’s a Hoax.

[edit on 2/9/2007 by defcon5]

I quit filming object #2 because it freaken disapperared? As you can see in the video, it got dimmer & dimmer, and then....

Can't do much about that.

Originally posted by Drexon
The thread started out with Frozen noticing similarities with his footage and a decade old footage he found. Why doesn't anyone check the footage out before blurting out their opinion? The simple fact that the decade old footage shows more or less exactly the same crafts (whatever they are), but at a slant (5º or so), hovering next to each other, not moving, should be enough to prove most of you debunkers wrong.

Look at the video, comment it. I'm still not saying these could be any other conventional aircraft, like helicopters, just that defcon5s relentless bashing of Frozen is uncalled for, no matter how much experience he has in this field.

Thank you, That is what I have been wondering, These same exact objects, including video's I have not released yet that I have filmed over Lake Erie, they are also being filmed over Lake Ontario, and this is documanted at WWW.Orbwatch, as you said, this is footage from years ago, But I can tell you, it is the same phenomenon, and I think that is the most interesting thing and you are the 1st person who has even brought up the original intent of this thread.

Thank You!

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Drexon

Originally posted by Drexon
'Why' are you asking me? You can't prove anything by that logic, nor convince anyone either. 'Sides, it looked like it disappeared towards the end of the video.

I am asking you logically, why the change on what aircraft had focus, and then why shut down when your claiming its getting so close when we can clearly see its getting pretty dim?

Is there a logical reason for this, or is it slight of hand and distractions like any good magician would use?

Originally posted by Drexon
Did you Watch the videos?

Yeah I sat here with a pen and paper and went through it very thoroughly, that is why I was able to give a time line to events. Pause, backed it up, watched this and that bit again, rinse, and repeat.

Originally posted by Drexon
Again, did you Watch the videos?

I did not see anything called passerby on the OP’s video, if you mean the web sites video, I have not watched those. If I get a chance to watch the other ones tonight after I get back up for work I will do so. For the moment lets stick with the video posted.

Originally posted by Drexon
The simple fact that the decade old footage shows more or less exactly the same crafts

Maybe its because DC-9 variants have been flying a lot longer then a decade.

Originally posted by Drexon
defcon5s relentless bashing of Frozen is uncalled for

Maybe you should look back at how those that discredit a sighting are treated first. How they are immediately ridiculed far worse then the person making the post is. Even if theirs is the more logical and knowledgeable view on the subject, they are immediately the bad guy. This UFO stuff has gone from being a critical thinking science to a matter of faith, a new religion, and gawd help you if you can explain a case away.

Mondogiwa

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
However, I have a huge amount of hours being on runways and around aircraft and can agree with you on the bizarre factor that other people have about the lights. For people that simply do not understand what aircraft can actually do, it seems obvious that they are not aircraft. I hear all the time, "that doesn't look or act like any airplane I've ever seen". Exactly, because they have never seen what a "normal" airplane can do not to mention something along the lines of the F18's I dealt with or even more like the newest generation aircraft.

Halleluiah, Amen brother!!

Here is how much I agree with you on this one:

You have voted Mondogiwa for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

If you ask me a heck of a lot of the “Black Triangle” sightings are nothing more then DC-9 variants. Its also why I get sick of seeing them so often, give it a few more year and you’ll feel the same way, doubly so when its this apparent.

sensfan

Originally posted by sensfan
He is simply stating his opinion, based on his experience. His posts are very well thought out and stated.

Thanks for that, I appreciate it very much.

Frozenthought

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Because object #2 was coming closer at that time?

So rather then try for that much coveted close up shot of a UFO that everyone is always looking for, you decided to shut off the camera, why?

so, it seems to me, your trying to root out a hoaxer, than merely deciphering a movie, defcon. just tell the man, you think he's lying already.

So rather then try for that much coveted close up shot of a UFO that everyone is always looking for, you decided to shut off the camera, why?

[edit on 9-2-2007 by waffleprime]

frozenthought, when you posted the vid for the first time my first response was that it looked like planes. nothing chnages my mind from that as i live near an airport and they look/act like planes.

some people seem to be clinging to the noise issue. Well im going to get some footage of planes coming into land at the airport near me and everyone will see just how close they need to be for you to be able to hear them.

I observed some the other night and checked google earth as i know the flight path and you cant hear them unless they are minimum 1.5 miles or less.

but i will prove it soon with some video.

Two guys here are definitely "on the job" or running a personel agenda...figure who



"Move along people, nothing to see here!"



"Ok, nothing to see here, we agree (b-a-a-a-a-h)"

[edit on 9-2-2007 by AgainstSecrecy]

Originally posted by defcon5
[

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Because object #2 was coming closer at that time?

So rather then try for that much coveted close up shot of a UFO that everyone is always looking for, you decided to shut off the camera, why?

I shut the camera off because there was nothing left to film? As you can see, Craft #2 either left at very high speed getting dimmer & dimmer, or it faded out & dissapeared.

Originally posted by yeti101
frozenthought, when you posted the vid for the first time my first response was that it looked like planes. nothing chnages my mind from that as i live near an airport and they look/act like planes.

some people seem to be clinging to the noise issue. Well im going to get some footage of planes coming into land at the airport near me and everyone will see just how close they need to be for you to be able to hear them.

I observed some the other night and checked google earth as i know the flight path and you cant hear them unless they are minimum 1.5 miles or less.

but i will prove it soon with some video.

Please prove it them by filming planes over a large body of water, sound caries very well over water, I have seen smaller Planes fly by me over the lake, You can hear them coming & going, very easily with no problem, these were totally silent and pretty close, those are the facts.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

So let's recap

These objects were moving away from the closest Airport, the 2nd object in fact went out over the lake, There are no airports out there that I know of, and they were totally silent. And these double ORB UFO Objects have also been wittnessed and filmed and photographed over Lake Ontario.

Does that not discount the "Planes landing theory"

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

ok, i will go down to the shore and film them, they come in over water so it shouldnt be a problem.

Originally posted by AgainstSecrecy
Two guys here are definitely "on the job" or running a personel agenda...figure who

"Move along people, nothing to see here!"

"Ok, nothing to see here, we agree (b-a-a-a-a-h)"

[edit on 9-2-2007 by AgainstSecrecy]

I would say there's a lot more than 2. I like defcon's arguments until he starts up with the 'hoax' nonsense. But then you have the hit-and-run trollers who go all up and down the first page of threads chiming in the usual status quo insults and condescending statements, usually questioning anyone's intelligence who doesn't buy into every single thing being easily explainable to some mundane cause. The pro/con debates are fun and enlightening, but the folks who come to a UFO/alien site to simply denounce everything definitely make me ask what the heck they are investing so much time and effort for(if it's all BS to them)?Hmmm

Images of UFO's filmed & photographed over Lake Ontario, This is not stills from my footage but they seem to be the exactly the same

Double ORB



DOUBLE ORB


Single ORB, I have filmed these single ORBS over Lake Erie as well









[edit on 9-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

Originally posted by AgainstSecrecy
Two guys here are definitely "on the job" or running a personel agenda...figure who

"Move along people, nothing to see here!"

"Ok, nothing to see here, we agree (b-a-a-a-a-h)"

[edit on 9-2-2007 by AgainstSecrecy]

I would say there's a lot more than 2. I like defcon's arguments until he starts up with the 'hoax' nonsense. But then you have the hit-and-run trollers who go all up and down the first page of threads chiming in the usual status quo insults and condescending statements, usually questioning anyone's intelligence who doesn't buy into every single thing being easily explainable to some mundane cause. The pro/con debates are fun and enlightening, but the folks who come to a UFO/alien site to simply denounce everything definitely make me ask what the heck they are investing so much time and effort for(if it's all BS to them)?Hmmm

Good Point, Hmmmmm Indeed

Originally posted by AgainstSecrecy
Two guys here are definitely "on the job" or running a personel agenda...figure who

"Move along people, nothing to see here!"

"Ok, nothing to see here, we agree (b-a-a-a-a-h)"

Wow…
So now I am a government agent/debunker…
Makes you look like quite uninformed since so many folks on this site know what I do for a living. Perhaps you should look around some, and you can find out the truth too, the truth is out there…

Dimensional detective,

I'm looking for the truth. Just becuase i dont swallow every picture/video posted here deosnt mean im not interested in UFOs

If these are indeed airplanes landing or taking off from a nearby airport, then wouldn't you see them there all the time day and night?

Frozen, have you filmed from that same location during the day to see what else is flying there often if anything? And if so, how does the noise of crafts there come across the camera?

And if this is happening often, why not get a telescope with a camera to get a REAL look at them?

[edit on 9-2-2007 by MiahX]

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Please prove it them by filming planes over a large body of water, sound caries very well over water, I have seen smaller Planes fly by me over the lake, You can hear them coming & going, very easily with no problem, these were totally silent and pretty close, those are the facts.

Maybe that’s because small aircraft have less sound baffling in the engine casings. Prop aircraft are the loudest since they have no engine casing and radiate sound in all directions.

Originally posted by Frozenthought
I shut the camera off because there was nothing left to film? As you can see, Craft #2 either left at very high speed getting dimmer & dimmer, or it faded out & dissapeared.

So which was it, it was getting closer, or further?

Originally posted by Frozenthought
These objects were moving away from the closest Airport, the 2nd object in fact went out over the lake, There are no airports out there that I know of, and they were totally silent.

Can you show a google earth of the location where you took the pictures from?
I know it’s been asked already twice, and ignored.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
I like defcon's arguments until he starts up with the 'hoax' nonsense. But then you have the hit-and-run trollers who go all up and down the first page of threads chiming in the usual status quo insults and condescending statements, usually questioning anyone's intelligence who doesn't buy into every single thing being easily explainable to some mundane cause.

I did not even mention hoax until someone else did first. Considering that I can see what appears to be a airport, and the apparent switching between aircraft at just the right moments I believe this to be intentional. I don’t think I have called anyone intelligence into question, nor have I thrown out a bunch of insults.

Originally posted by Frozenthought

Yeah so the colors fluctuate, so do stars when looked at low on the horizon, its called atmospheric distortion. Add to that the heat raising off the lake at night, after a full day of absorbing the heat of the sun, and wholla you have flickering lights.

Anyway this is most likely my last post for the day.

Later Folks...
Us secret agents that work the night shift have to sleep so we can meet up with the grays in the dead of night, mutilate some cows, and practice our secret handshakes.


[edit on 2/9/2007 by defcon5]

I am not buying the "airplane landing light theory" and here is why. Traffic patterns do not bring airplanes in for miles low over water. Even when planes are only several miles from the airport, they are still thousands of feet up in the air. Park a couple miles from an airport and watch the traffic patterns that are used to organize the planes for landing and you will immediately see what I am talking about.

Originally posted by defcon5
Wow…
So now I am a government agent/debunker…
Makes you look like quite uninformed since so many folks on this site know what I do for a living. Perhaps you should look around some, and you can find out the truth too, the truth is out there…

Since you feel you have to defend yourself, you must count yourself in.





People only defend themselfs if they feel they have to...