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On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

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posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 10:19 AM
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Lake Erie UFO: A Closer Examination from UFO News



What is depicted in the picture above?
Is it two jets several miles apart from each other?
Or two police cars several yards apart from each other?
Or is it what each of us want it to be?

UFO NEWS - On February 6th we posted Michael Lee Hill’s UFO video captured on August 18th, 2006 on the shores of Lake Erie. Six days later it has generated a heated debate in the post’s comments.

Many skeptics believe the lights pictured above are two distant jets coming at us in a landing pattern - appearing to hover. Other skeptics say these are two police cars driving across a hill at night - on parallel roads with distance forcing the perspective.

We don’t think so.

1) Michael Lee Hill tells us he shot this in Eastlake, Ohio. In this topo map of the area you will see no hills near or across the shoreline.

2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.

3) If these aircraft were coming in to Cleveland Airport they would be traveling from right to left.

4) In the frame grab above shouldn’t there be an appreciable size difference between two aircraft of this size, miles apart — even with the alleged mirage affect?

UFO NEWS believes these two ‘things’ are flying about 20 feet apart from each other.

If anyone would like to further debunk this sighting I believe we must begin with these new ideas.

UFO News




posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by yeti101
southpaw i visited alienhunter.org and one of the first things i found was how they hypnotise "abductees"

this is the biggest mistake any researcher can make when trying to validate any claims. Any data collected through hypnosis is most likely rusbbish sorry to say.






Again, I respect YOU and I respect your RESPONSE as having been well thought out, well researched, and more than plausible.

In this genlteman's case, I can assure you, it's no mistake. The BS that mimicks what is taught of ancients... that's NOT Sims.

RESERVE JUDGEMENT
Go talk to him. We can banter all day. I realize I can banter with the best of 'em... but in the end... talk's cheap.

Go look at EVIDENCE. Not assumption. Remember... what is true in one way... in one place... and on one day... may be completely different upon the next rising sun... It is deeply rooted truth to know this ...

Again, not diminishing your assessements, b/c I'm certain I'd agree with them fully. In other words, my friend, I am embracing your thought. Take it into the mix...

Now... go SEE the evidence. FIND a little more to support your TRUTH. Truth is not a destination... It is not a journey... it is an underlying foundation upon which ALL is built. Where the branches are directed... well this has been left to man.. with the nasty influence of some stinky little gray and brown guys...

SPout



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Frozenthought

What is depicted in the picture above?
Is it two jets several miles apart from each other?
Or two police cars several yards apart from each other?
Or is it what each of us want it to be?


I definately fall into the planes on approach to Hopkins camp. Police cars are ridiculous. Thats what happens when a person simply glances at an image and offers a shallow opinion w/o researching any alternative explanations. I dont WANT it to anything in particular. I am not a skeptic at heart, but I will not lie to myself about what I see and have realized from researching air traffic patterns in the area for Hopkins specifically. And without a doubt there will always people who will put on blinders and always see what they want to see. No way around that, human nature an all.


1) Mich1ael Lee Hill tells us he shot this in Eastlake, Ohio. In this topo map of the area you will see no hills near or across the shoreline.


Wholeheartedly agree with this.


2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


This is assuming that the aircraft are much closer than most of us think they are. Considering the most reasonable choice, since there is an international airport in close proximity, they are further away FT and those in his boat on this and are terrestrial planes approaching Hopkins.


3) If these aircraft were coming in to Cleveland Airport they would be traveling from right to left.


Aircraft can approach an airport from any direction, depending on where they are coming from and from what altitude they are descending from. I dont understand the right to left supposition. Granted the closer a plane is to an airport the more regular the paterns become due to regs and such. From my viewpoint, the video is being shot mostly to the SW, along the shoreline of Erie, practically straight at the holding area for Hopkins.


4) In the frame grab above shouldn’t there be an appreciable size difference between two aircraft of this size, miles apart — even with the alleged mirage affect?


I dont think these planes are "miles" from each other. They may be 1-3 miles from each other at the most. Plane number one, to the left as it appears in the video, is in the pattern first. Plane number 2, turning in from the north, but right behind plane 1 "appears" top be on top of #1. It is above and behind, maybe 15k to 20k feet behind #1. #2 is sent off the the right (its left, further out over the lake) to bleed off speed for approach and allow time for #1 to line up for final. We see #1 do exactly that with a lazy RH turn into the slope for Hopkins. #2 could have started it RH turn as well but the nightshot was shut off before that could be ascertained.


UFO NEWS believes these two ‘things’ are flying about 20 feet apart from each other.


There is no way. Its like me saying that from looking at the picture in the post that they are a mere inch away from each other. If, if you threw out all possibility of aircraft activity, willingly ignored these facts then I guess one could assume that, but you would really be good at turning a blind eye to the facts and a real good liar to yourself.



[edit on 13-2-2007 by Lost_Mind]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Lost_Mind]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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I have a few things to say about these points from "UFO News".



2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


WTF?! Hopkins and Burke are in the direction the camera is pointing! They are obviously not investigating too hard. I suppose you can't run a sucessful site on non-stories though.



3) If these aircraft were coming in to Cleveland Airport they would be traveling from right to left.


There's regularly planes going in all sorts of different directions over that part of the lake- flightaware.com... and we even see the first plane head right, towards the end of the clip.



4) In the frame grab above shouldn’t there be an appreciable size difference between two aircraft of this size, miles apart — even with the alleged mirage affect?


No, absoluteley not. These aircraft are, let's say 30 /30+ miles away and let's say 1 mile appart (which is what I suspect) when they appear to be on top of each other . The lights would actually look very similar in size.



UFO NEWS believes these two ‘things’ are flying about 20 feet apart from each other.


Lol, why?



If anyone would like to further debunk this sighting I believe we must begin with these new ideas.


"Further debunk" lol, that does not even make sense.


[edit on 13-2-2007 by Xeros]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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Soooooooo....

Is anybody going to ask the next set of questions pertinent to this investigation? Have they been asked yet?

For example:

WHY did the camera get turned off?
WHEN did the camera get turned off?
WHAT did you do next?
WHAT happened later that night?
Did anybody wake up around 0330? 0400?
Anybody got marks on them the next morning?
Any vivid dreams of aliens?
Owls?
Did anybody see ghosts of loved ones that night?
What about Watchers... shadow people?
Or what about... The MIB? yikes. not good when he shows up.
Bigfoot?
Little orbs of light?
Did anyone hear anything on the roof that night?
Did any locked doors just... *click* pop open?
Did it smell like burnt matches in the morning? Sulfur? Moldy leather? Soggy cardboard?
Anybody got a lump pn their right testicle?
Anybody craving salt the next morning?
Did anybody wake up in the wrong bed?
Wrong room? house? town? state?
Did anybody notice appliances that were on one setting... miraculously are at another?
Was anything out of place? keys? salt and pepper shakers? not necessarily significant... just examples of "small things" that could be significant...

THOSE are the questions I'm concerned about... not the imagery of the UFO

Did ANY of you EVER consider the fact that the sighting itself could be a preliminary "diversion"? It has certainly occupied 99% of the conversation in this thread.

Instead of saying... okay. kewl. We have a possible anomoly. You 3... go research the anomoly. You 3 talk with Frozen about what happened AFTER the sighting.

Now THAT would be an investigation.

THIS has just turned into the crucifixion of an innocent man.... who's trying to help.

RESERVE JUDGEMENT



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Southpaw11
Soooooooo....

Is anybody going to ask the next set of questions pertinent to this investigation? Have they been asked yet?

For example:

WHY did the camera get turned off?
WHEN did the camera get turned off?
WHAT did you do next?
WHAT happened later that night?
Did anybody wake up around 0330? 0400?
Anybody got marks on them the next morning?
Any vivid dreams of aliens?
Owls?
Did anybody see ghosts of loved ones that night?
What about Watchers... shadow people?
Or what about... The MIB? yikes. not good when he shows up.
Bigfoot?
Little orbs of light?
Did anyone hear anything on the roof that night?
Did any locked doors just... *click* pop open?
Did it smell like burnt matches in the morning? Sulfur? Moldy leather? Soggy cardboard?
Anybody got a lump pn their right testicle?
Anybody craving salt the next morning?
Did anybody wake up in the wrong bed?
Wrong room? house? town? state?
Did anybody notice appliances that were on one setting... miraculously are at another?
Was anything out of place? keys? salt and pepper shakers? not necessarily significant... just examples of "small things" that could be significant...

THOSE are the questions I'm concerned about... not the imagery of the UFO

Did ANY of you EVER consider the fact that the sighting itself could be a preliminary "diversion"? It has certainly occupied 99% of the conversation in this thread.

Instead of saying... okay. kewl. We have a possible anomoly. You 3... go research the anomoly. You 3 talk with Frozen about what happened AFTER the sighting.

Now THAT would be an investigation.

THIS has just turned into the crucifixion of an innocent man.... who's trying to help.

RESERVE JUDGEMENT


THIS has just turned into the crucifixion of an innocent man.... who's trying to help.

Thank you bro, I will answer all you questions here a little later when I have more time.

Peace,
MLH

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Frozenthought]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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A veteran police officer here at ATS wittnesses the exact same objects in Ohio as well.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:43 PM
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This is not in my eyes a "crucifixion" here. *My* sole intent is to see if Frozenthought is willing to at least concede that it is possible that these are no more than aircraft as has been ascribed by some here.

Frozen, you picked the perfect screen name IMO. Although I see this video as aircraft and no more, I am willing to admit that I may be entirely wrong about this, that I may be seeing it incorrectly and my perception is flawed about it.

Why cant you? It is disturbing to me to see a complete unwillingness or inability on your behalf to admit that you and others may be way off base on this as well. This fact is why the tone of agenda has arisen a couple of times in this thread.

You have leaned on this so hard as gospel fact proof for UFO's, that your unwillingness to admit that you are potentially wrong about it says to some you may have something to lose by wavering in your promotion of yours and others viewpoints on it.

I am done posting in this thread personally and going back to observation mode, but others may not diminish so quickly. I do reserve the right to come back and apologize if I am upside down wrong about what is in this video.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Xeros




2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


WTF?! Hopkins and Burke are in the direction the camera is pointing! They are obviously not investigating too hard. I suppose you can't run a sucessful site on non-stories though.



UFO News is quoting the author of this thread. That would explain why they think the way they do. I highly doubt UFO news is even aware there is a holding pattern for CLE at the exact point the aircraft were shown in the video in question.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Xeros




2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


WTF?! Hopkins and Burke are in the direction the camera is pointing! They are obviously not investigating too hard. I suppose you can't run a sucessful site on non-stories though.



Uhm, No, I have nothing to do with UFO news and i know nobody there, try again.

UFO News is quoting the author of this thread. That would explain why they think the way they do. I highly doubt UFO news is even aware there is a holding pattern for CLE at the exact point the aircraft were shown in the video in question.




posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:36 PM
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cool experience~ I believe it is something which is not belong to the Earth~
I like the second one come~ and the camera tured to night mood to show more clear~~

Those guyz movied the UFO~ but do you guyz think~ the UFO also knows they are being watch??



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Frozenthought

Uhm, No, I have nothing to do with UFO news and i know nobody there, try again.




From a post above it says


UFO NEWS - On February 6th we posted Michael Lee Hill’s UFO video captured on August 18th, 2006 on the shores of Lake Erie. Six days later it has generated a heated debate in the post’s comments.
......
1) Michael Lee Hill tells us he shot this in Eastlake, Ohio. In this topo map of the area you will see no hills near or across the shoreline.

2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


They say it is a man by the name of Hill and you have claimed you took the video in Aug didn't you? You also claimed it was flying towards Eastlake didn't you which is the same as was mentioned.

Make up your mind did you or didn't you take the video we have been talking about?

Also I am still wating for your answer/guess as to what you think the aircraft alt was... I posted it back one page

[edit on 2/13/2007 by shots]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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I left a reply on there message board, as I said , I know nobody there and I am not a part of UFO news in anyway, I was responding to questions just like I have done here. But if you must make it into something else which you seem so good at doing, knock yourself out.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:32 PM
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I haven't read any of the posts in this thread, except for the first few on page one but I STRONGLY SUGGEST that those of you who think those light's are planes in FrozenThought's video, look at it VERY CAREFULLY again at 1:40 min/sec to 2:47 min/sec and YOU tell me what kind of planes all of the sudden just zip across the sky as rapidly as the light that's on the right that's zipping over to the left where those other lights are -- go ahead, I dare you to tell me that that's a plane that's doing that. Lol, sorry guys, but THAT AIN'T NO PLANE!
I had my significant other (going on 15 yrs now) who's the chairman of a university's aerospace technology dept. view FrozenThought's video and even he said that there are sections of Frozen's video that are 'interesting' (including that section that starts at 1:40 min/sec..)--meaning that something 'out of the ordinary' is occurring in this video -- for him to say that, a hard core scientist who's also a pilot with every rating there is in just about every known aircraft that's flying up there -- for someone like him to say that there are sections of this video that are "INTERESTING', believe me, is worth taking note of!
And you don't think that Dan Ackroyd and David Serena didn't have FrozenThought's video evaluated by experts with the same credentials and background as what my boyfriend has before putting it into their UFO documentary and then showing it on Fox News? Of course they did -- after all, their reputations are on the line and they are not going to be showing a UFO clip when it has not been thoroughly analyzed and evaluated.
Geese, just skimming over the pages in this thread I'm seeing so many new names here -- wonder where all of you are from -- posting in here for what looks like the first time and then trashing this video. Very strange indeed.




[edit on 13-2-2007 by Palasheea]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Frozenthought

Uhm, No, I have nothing to do with UFO news and i know nobody there, try again.




From a post above it says


UFO NEWS - On February 6th we posted Michael Lee Hill’s UFO video captured on August 18th, 2006 on the shores of Lake Erie. Six days later it has generated a heated debate in the post’s comments.
......
1) Michael Lee Hill tells us he shot this in Eastlake, Ohio. In this topo map of the area you will see no hills near or across the shoreline.

2) If these aircraft are flying towards Eastlake then we can only find two destinations, Lost Nation Municipal Airport and Cuyahoga County Airport. Neither of these airports look the part for what would be obviously BIG planes on approach.


They say it is a man by the name of Hill and you have claimed you took the video in Aug didn't you? You also claimed it was flying towards Eastlake didn't you which is the same as was mentioned.

Make up your mind did you or didn't you take the video we have been talking about?

Also I am still wating for your answer/guess as to what you think the aircraft alt was... I posted it back one page

[edit on 2/13/2007 by shots]


They say it is a man by the name of Hill and you have claimed you took the video in Aug didn't you?

Uhmm, Yes

You also claimed it was flying towards Eastlake didn't you which is the same as was mentioned

I said I filmed it in Eastlake, They figured out the craft was heading my direction all by them selves there sparky, it's not that hard to figure out, they watched the video.

Make up your mind did you or didn't you take the video we have been talking about?

I don't ever remember saying I didn't film it, again, I have no clue what you are talking about.

Also I am still wating for your answer/guess as to what you think the aircraft alt was... I posted it back one page

I have said repeatedly and in the footage itself, I don't know what they are.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
Geese, just skimming over the pages in this thread I'm seeing so many new names here -- wonder where you are all from coming in here and trashing this video. Very strange indeed.



[edit on 13-2-2007 by Palasheea]


I'm living near an airport, i see planelights all day long and all night long. and i can tell you, these are no planelights, no matter what those folks say. it's like trying to convince people that christmastrees have no needles but leafes...can't work.

Those new members that are coming here the last few days and trying to debunk nearly everything could be sockpuppets. it's a common debunker tactic to use sockpuppets to convince people. like "yeah if so many people say they're aircraft lights, they have to be." If it's made a bit smart then the sockpuppets are hiding behind proxies/webproxies to not be idendified as beeing the same poster.

These people are "on the job" or running a personel agenda. They simply have to do it.

We are earning our money with hard and fair work. The people that are "on the job" are earning their money by fooling the puplic...no honorable job. I wouldn't do it. Even if they'd give me millions of $



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:51 PM
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look at it VERY CAREFULLY again at 1:40 min/sec to 2:47 min/sec and YOU tell me what kind of planes all of the sudden just zip across the sky as rapidly as the light that's on the right that's zipping over to the left where those other lights are -- go ahead, I dare you to tell me that that's a plane that's doing that. Lol, sorry guys, but THAT AIN'T NO PLANE!


Palashea, I think you better have a look again. What you think is the plane zipping across to the left is actually the camera zooming back out as it goes into "night mode" The plane on the left is centered, and as it zooms out, it appears as thought the plane on the right zips across, but it's just an illusion caused by zooming out.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
I had my significant other (going on 15 yrs now) who's the chairman of a university's aerospace technology dept. view FrozenThought's video and even he said that there are sections of Frozen's video that are 'interesting' (including that section that starts at 1:40 min/sec..)--meaning that something 'out of the ordinary' is occurring in this video -- for him to say that, a hard core scientist who's also a pilot with every rating there is in just about every known aircraft that's flying up there -- for someone like him to say that there are sections of this video that are "INTERESTING', believe me, is worth taking note of!


Well perhaps they don't have video cameras in university aerospace technology departments. At 1:40 the camera switches to nightview and the zoom level changes.



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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I had my significant other (going on 15 yrs now) who's the chairman of a university's aerospace technology dept. view FrozenThought's video and even he said that there are sections of Frozen's video that are 'interesting' (including that section that starts at 1:40 min/sec..)--meaning that something 'out of the ordinary' is occurring in this video -- for him to say that, a hard core scientist who's also a pilot with every rating there is in just about every known aircraft that's flying up there -- for someone like him to say that there are sections of this video that are "INTERESTING', believe me, is worth taking note of!

Geese, just skimming over the pages in this thread I'm seeing so many new names here -- wonder where all of you are from -- posting in here for what looks like the first time and then trashing this video. Very strange indeed.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Palasheea]


Very strange indeed :-) It is interesting that your partner is a pilot as well, There have been other pilots here at ATS as well who have stated these are not planes but some people here think they know even more about planes than actual pilots it seems :-)

Just so you know, When the footage goes into nightshot, I did zoom out a little to gain some perspective so you can tell the objects were over the lake. I think that is what you are talking about. so you know.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by Frozenthought]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Frozenthought


Very strange indeed :-) It is interesting that your partner is a pilot as well, There have been other pilots here at ATS as well who have stated these are not planes but some people here think they know even more about planes than actual pilots it seems :-)


Why don't you tell her what happens at 1:40 in the video since it's your film. And I'm sure I won't be the only one to ask, so could we please have a list of the ATS pilots who have stated these lights aren't planes?




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