On to something huge here! (UFO HOAX)

defcon5,

I think my points are very clear for most people not on an agenda as you clearly are! I will not bother debunking your bunk as you have already done that much better then I or any other skeptic could. You have actually scored on yourself AMAZING!!!

Keep up the good work and perhaps you'll get a promotion soon! By the way, were you a lawyer before working for the NSA? Do they prefer candidates with "law degrees"?


Frozenthought,

I really admire your patience on this post! You have gone way above and beyond proving beyond any reasonable doubt and I will vote you for way above award. I would probably have given up after a few pages but I think your SPECIAL!!!!


To the moderators,

Isn't trolling and knowingly providing false information a violation against the Terms and Conditions of this site? If so why do the government agents get so much slack while the common joe gets pounded with penalty points with very little if any warnings with the slighest violations?

I don't mind getting penalized but if you guys want a truly open and debateable forumn then perhaps there should not be any biasm and all trollers should be dealt with on even grounds!

Thanks!

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
defcon5,

I think my points are very clear for most people not on an agenda as you clearly are! I will not bother debunking your bunk as you have already done that much better then I or any other skeptic could. You have actually scored on yourself

AMAZING!!!

Keep up the good work and perhaps you'll get a promotion soon! By the way, were you a lawyer before working for the NSA? Do they prefer candidates with "law degrees"?

Wow. Even a skeptic says that defcon5 is a goverment shill It's obvious, ain't it...

No wonder DEAFcon felt offended by my agent pictures. I busted him and he couldn't take it

BTW @DEAFcon: I deleted your last U2U without reading it...that would have been a waste of time and energy. And you're still on igno. ...

@frozen

You have voted Frozenthought for the Way Above Top Secret award.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by AgainstSecrecy]

Actually he won't get any promotion cause I discredited him. I think he is out of a job. Either that or he will get a new name and start his trolling agenda all over again. Man this is getting very boring ....very fast


AgainstSecrecy,

I am not a skeptic as far as believing in ufos. I know they exist and their is so much proof it's not even funny trying to claim otherwise. Actually its very boring!

To be frank, I really don't care if 20%, 50% or 90% are real incidents. Whats the point of trying to figure out the validity of each and every picture or video when we already know that most if not all of the pranks are from the same people that are here posing as experts and trying like maniacs to debunk the real incidents. If you notice they don't really bother with the questionable stuff since that is a "given" and only serves to discredit the believers!

I maybe skeptical to other stuff such masonic conspiracies and NWO plots but not to ufo secrecy. THAT IS A HUGE GIVEN BY ANYONE WHO HAS SPENT 10-15 HOURS OF THEIR PRECIOUS TIME TO LOOK AROUND THE INTERNET!!!

[edit on 11/2/07 by SkepticGreek74]

I have seen the videos and photos on that other site.

One of the videos made me think that, even when we are convinced that we are seeing UFO or paranormal activities we should always think of the possibility of being witnesses to some accident. For example, when that guy got the images of the lights entering the water, did he thought of the possibility of witnessing a plane crash?

As for the similarity between those photos and videos and Frozenthought video, I think that Frozenthought video has much better quality and presents more possibilities, the other guy's videos are too short.


[edit on 11/2/2007 by ArMaP]

SkepticGreek74,

I'm just curious - do you think that Jeff Ritzmann and I fall into your category of folks "posing as experts"? Do you think we're covert government operatives, sent out to discredit legitimate UFO sightings?

Regarding your statement about your feelings about UFOs:

I am not a skeptic as far as believing in ufos. I know they exist and their is so much proof it's not even funny trying to claim otherwise.

Do you believe that ALL UFO reports are truly UFOs? Obviously, UFOs exist, as in, there are things that have been spotted in/on the air/ground/water that are not instantly identified as conventional aircraft, but does that mean that every UFO is "extraterrestrial"? Or even "alien"?

The truth is that we currently do NOT know where these things (the small percentage that are truly unidentified) originate from, or what they want. There are certainly reasons to think that some of them might indeed be extraterrestrial, but there are also reasons to believe that they might be crypto-terrestrial.

Or both.

Or neither.

The point is, any legitimate discussion/debate about this subject might benefit from a little intellectual objectivity and honesty, as well as a bit of humility. To make sweeping proclamations is simply not useful, as it tends to muddy the waters and give debunkers fuel for fires. The fact that you claim not to be "skeptical" is revealing, as skepticism is a critical tool in trying to uncover the truth about UFOs - and let's remember, a skeptic is NOT the same thing as a debunker.

This video might show a UFO, but there are a lot of reasons to think that these are conventional aircraft. The polarization of the tone of responses to this situation is both fascinating and sad, in terms of discovering an actual path towards understanding. Defcon5 has brought up some compelling points, as have others, for having some doubts about this video showing genuine UFOs. That is completely compatible with the idea that there are indeed genuine UFOs flying around and occasionally being caught on film/video/CCDs. Like many others here, I would love to see some of the other footage that frozenthought says he has, including stuff that we would definitely NOT mistake for planes. Let the evidence speak for itself.

dB

[edit on 11-2-2007 by davidbiedny]

Originally posted by Frozenthought

Originally posted by lagos
Thanks for everyone's input in this thread - very interesting and entertaining - its pretty apparent that most people involved just want to know the truth.

Frozenthought - can I asked you why the video ends so abruptly; I know you kinda addressed that before. It would seem, however, that if this indeed was such a "strange" occurence and you were luckily able to film it, that you would have left your camera running for as long as possible.

Personally, I think there is def. a human-related explanation for what you captured on film - thanks for sharing though.

Sure, I stopped filming beause object #1 had left my field of site over my left shoulder when it crossed the shoreline, but it seemed to be dissapearing as well. and Object #2 seemed to either take off at a fast rate or disappear while I was filming it which you can see in the film.

To be blunt, there was nothing left to film at that time.

FROZENTHOUGHT
I don't think any of those aircraft could be the anomolies in your video.

I have some questions though... hope you don't mind.

1. what time was this?
2. what did you do for the rest of the night?
3. what did your house smell like in the morning?
4. what did everybody dream about that night?
5. of what descent are you? Irish? Celtic? Native American? What about the other guy that I hear?
6. did anybody wake up around 3am?
7. bruises? red marks? punctures? scoops? on anybody?
8. what monsters lived in your bedroom as a kid?
9. did anyone hear noises on the roof that night? anyother nite?
10. was anything out of place in the morning?
11. clothes on wrong?
12. woke up in wrong room, bed, house, town, state, etc?
13. crave salt the next day?
14. if you happened to walk under a blacklight, did anybody notice florescent markings on each other?
15. have your parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles seen UFOs?

[edit on 11/202/07 by Southpaw11]

Originally posted by Southpaw11


I have some questions though... hope you don't mind.

1. what time was this?
2. what did you do for the rest of the night?
3. what did your house smell like in the morning?
4. what did everybody dream about that night?
5. of what descent are you? Irish? Celtic? Native American? What about the other guy that I hear?
6. did anybody wake up around 3am?
7. bruises? red marks? punctures? scoops? on anybody?
8. what monsters lived in your bedroom as a kid?
9. did anyone hear noises on the roof that night? anyother nite?
10. was anything out of place in the morning?
11. clothes on wrong?
12. woke up in wrong room, bed, house, town, state, etc?
13. crave salt the next day?
14. if you happened to walk under a blacklight, did anybody notice florescent markings on each other?
15. have your parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles seen UFOs?

[edit on 11/202/07 by Southpaw11]

holly crap dude, thats wack. i feel violated reading that and you didn't even ask me

FrozenThought can you give me the closest cross street to 283 and the beach where you took you the video from?

I am trying to work up a scale drawing with a perspective but I need to know where you were before I can finish it. Thank you!

[edit on 2/11/2007 by shots]

Regarding the above questions, It seems like you are getting at if I've been abducted, I believe so and I'll just leave it at that.


[edit on 11-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Next Sunday, February 18, 2007 I have an amazing show for everyone. Michael is going to join the show for an hour. Michael is the person who filmed the Lake Eire UFO event which is making major news all over the internet. Fox News covered the story along with footage being run on Coast To Coast AM, The Jeff Rense website and many other places. This is a fascinating talk with Michael as we dive into other areas as well besides the major UFO sighting he had. I do recommend you take the time to listen to his interview on February 18, 2007. Also just as amazing, don't forget to catch this weeks show with the two eyewitnesses from Ontario Canada.

LIVE: Every Sunday 11:00pm Central (1hrs) (12am Eastern, 10pm Mountain, 9pm Pacific or Monday 05:00 am GMT)
www.hbccufo.org...
jancikradionetwork.com...

[edit on 11-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

Originally posted by tom goose

Originally posted by Southpaw11


I have some questions though... hope you don't mind.

1. what time was this?
2. what did you do for the rest of the night?
3. what did your house smell like in the morning?
4. what did everybody dream about that night?
5. of what descent are you? Irish? Celtic? Native American? What about the other guy that I hear?
6. did anybody wake up around 3am?
7. bruises? red marks? punctures? scoops? on anybody?
8. what monsters lived in your bedroom as a kid?
9. did anyone hear noises on the roof that night? anyother nite?
10. was anything out of place in the morning?
11. clothes on wrong?
12. woke up in wrong room, bed, house, town, state, etc?
13. crave salt the next day?
14. if you happened to walk under a blacklight, did anybody notice florescent markings on each other?
15. have your parents, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles seen UFOs?

[edit on 11/202/07 by Southpaw11]

holly crap dude, thats wack. i feel violated reading that and you didn't even ask me

Okay. Now I want EVERYONE to notice this. I was wondering how long it was going to take.

YOU are NOT going to be the only person that feels this way. Once you go through the information we can get you... you are going to feel like someone just read your mail... your mental mail... You're going to feel like somebody talked about all that dark crazy crap you don't tell anybody about.

This is instance ONE.

By the way...

I recommend that you go find that post with the list of "abductee statistics" and see what you find out about yourself. There are things that are going to link up that will simply blow your mind. Things you NEVER would have considered "linkable".

Anyway...

Sorry bout the "violation".

What monsters were in your bedroom when your were a kid?

Originally posted by Frozenthought
Next Sunday, February 18, 2007 I have an amazing show for everyone.

Serious question are you in this for the money or to truly determine if UFOs do exist?

Oh and I would appreciate it if you could answer my last question as to the location on the beach where you say you took the video?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You see many of us truly would like to determine if they are real or perhaps aircraft and the only way this can be determined is by obtaining all information possible. Thanks again!

[edit on 2/11/2007 by shots]

Originally posted by Z28Jerry
Man, I really don't want you to feel bad, but I can assure you that your not on to anything big nor are you about to blow the top off of some huge provable event that will change the world's understanding about life, the universe and everything, lol.

Seriously, if things like this are meant to be seen, the proof would not come from some whacko's nighttime video of some" mystery lights" or some crackpots grainy photo of something that either isn't there or too out of focus to be of any use. Get my drift, man?

But where do I sign up to be one of these government agents you guys pin on anybody that displays any amount of objective, COMMON sense? I mean, I could use the extra money? You spend too much time in your own little world and have become delusional about what you want to be real, and how important you wish you really were.

In my experience, people who think they are on the leading edge of something "amazing" like this have issues with themselves that they may or may not even know about, but all display personality traits that are identical. I am sorry you are missing something in your life (like personal success, normal friends, money, a house, trophy wife, sports car...the things that most of us "blind men" with common sense have) but please look at yourself in the mirror and try to realize how sad it is for others to see an adult acting to ridiculous.

this has got to be the most ignorant post iv'e witnessed here yet. did you sign up just so you can push your opinion about a PERSON that youve never met? after reading your post over and over trying to understand what you meant, iv'e realized that this is you talking about you, how else could you know these fealings so intimatly?

you need to start speaking your mind more in person, that way enough shots to the head and you might learn some respect eventually.

I believe some people are too quick to dismiss something then to take a second and look at some of the pictures and videos that were provided with more interest. I have traveled to many places around the world on aircraft during the day and at night. No where have I seen airplanes that have not given off some sort of engine sound, nor have I seen an airplane stay stationary in one spot while another craft comes along and hovers over the first. And finally I can honestly say I have never seen or believe a plane would have such bright alternating lights for any purpose. I will tell you that a normal aircraft has blinking lights or while landing they turn on bright clear lights that do not flicker. They do not pulsate different colors. People love to say this UFO could be this or that but the fact is the people who dismiss your video have no more evidence to say that this UFO is fake then you have to say that it is real. Further more I would like to add that the majority of people who think you are not on to something big would have probably crapped their pants if they were standing there with you and would be helping to support you on this piece instead of dismissing it. I think if I had witnessed such an event it would change my life in some way.

Originally posted by Z28Jerry


In my experience, people who think they are on the leading edge of something "amazing" like this have issues with themselves that they may or may not even know about, but all display personality traits that are identical. I am sorry you are missing something in your life (like personal success, normal friends, money, a house, trophy wife, sports car...the things that most of us "blind men" with common sense have) but please look at yourself in the mirror and try to realize how sad it is for others to see an adult acting to ridiculous.

You do know how shallow and materialistic this appears to be don't you? A trophy wife? Cmon man, keep it real............

If those things pacify and satisfy you, more *power* to ya, but some of us go just a bit deeper.

Originally posted by shots
FrozenThought can you give me the closest cross street to 283 and the beach where you took you the video from?

I am trying to work up a scale drawing with a perspective but I need to know where you were before I can finish it. Thank you!

[edit on 2/11/2007 by shots]

RT 91 Som Center Road

AgainstSecrecy & SkepticGreek74

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
I think my points are very clear for most people not on an agenda as you clearly are!

No your post is based on a Video Game and is incorrect, as I have shown it to be…

VideoGame../…………………………………………………………………..Reality

I have posted links and sources to show you your error, but you still would rather believe your extensive experience with MicroSoft Flight Simulator, then reality.
Go take a real flight lesson.

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Keep up the good work and perhaps you'll get a promotion soon! By the way, were you a lawyer before working for the NSA? Do they prefer candidates with "law degrees"?

No my background is in aviation, computer science, and now I work in the medical field. If I was a government agent, I could find a lot better things to do with my efforts then debunk a guy filming a bunch of airplanes landing at an airport as part of a money making venture. If the government has any interest in this video at all, it would be because he is filming air traffic patterns, which may be considered a no-no post 911…

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Isn't trolling and knowingly providing false information a violation against the Terms and Conditions of this site? If so why do the government agents get so much slack while the common joe gets pounded with penalty points with very little if any warnings with the slighest violations?

Because they know that neither of these things are true…
My U2U’s, my IP when I post from work, my other posts, and my chat logs are all open to them, so they know I work where I have stated that I work. Secondly you have yet to prove anything that I have said incorrect, as to the 60-80Knots I said that was a guess up front, and I have not posted anything that was false information. Everything I have posted is true and is verifiable through sources online and otherwise. If there is anyone here that is in question of possibly having posted false information knowingly, it’s the OP.

Originally posted by AgainstSecrecy
Wow. Even a skeptic says that defcon5 is a goverment shill It's obvious, ain't it...

Yeah you guys who believe that everything is a UFO like to call anyone with common sense and a bit of skepticism a government agent, don’t you?

Originally posted by AgainstSecrecy
BTW @DEAFcon: I deleted your last U2U without reading it...that would have been a waste of time and energy. And you're still on igno. ...

Then why bother sending me harassing U2U’s with annoying pictures to begin with?
All I did was send you back your U2U, stating I was forwarding it to the mods. If you did not want to read my U2U, you should have never started with the U2U’s to begin with. If there is anyone that needs to be put on ignore, and treated like a troll, it’s you. As far as I can tell it’s not the skeptics that get any special treatment, it’s the folks that show up with controversial arguments that bring in the hits. Sorry that your friend got caught trying to hoist off pictures which he had to know were aircraft, as UFO’s…

Originally posted by SkepticGreek74
Actually he won't get any promotion cause I discredited him. I think he is out of a job. Either that or he will get a new name and start his trolling agenda all over again. Man this is getting very boring ....very fast

Hm, since I don’t work for anyone with an agenda, unlike the OP, I have no reason to lie, and it will not effect my job status in anyway. Why would a bunch of medical people give a crap if I pick apart a supposed UFO picture or not. I am just trying to show the truth and help some folks here “deny ignorance” by presenting facts. It seems like a lot of other folks have come to the same conclusion as myself, and that is what really upsets you two, doesn’t it?


davidbiedny

Originally posted by davidbiedny
Defcon5 has brought up some compelling points

Thank you Dave. I am glad to see there are some professional, realistic, skeptical, and objective researchers out there. Its folks like you which bring credibility to UFO research.


Southpaw

Originally posted by Southpaw11
6. did anybody wake up around 3am?

I am curious what you think waking at 0300 is supposed to prove?
It’s a well documented fact that people go into a REM period at 0300, and often have an associated sleep apnea event causing them to wake up at this time. If this is the kind of thing that you relate to an abduction, then you are seriously incorrect.

Same with the salt thing, many folks that experience sleep apnea sweat so badly during the night that they deplete themselves of salt and need to replenish it in the morning.

I am curious what you think waking at 0300 is supposed to prove?
It’s a well documented fact that people go into a REM period at 0300, and often have an associated sleep apnea event causing them to wake up at this time. If this is the kind of thing that you relate to an abduction, then you are seriously incorrect.

Same with the salt thing, many folks that experience sleep apnea sweat so badly during the night that they deplete themselves of salt and need to replenish it in the morning.

you are on a roll, And to my filming Airport traffic for money? That is just your opinion now isn't it? and it is sad. You poor little man.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Frozenthought]

I viewed the pics on orbitwatch.com. The pics look alot like what I saw here in SE Ohio over the summer 2006. Can you advise if these craft had alternating lights underneath. Very interesting stuff. Here is my thread of what I saw. Enjoy!

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread267072/pg1


[edit on 12-2-2007 by GNOarmy]

You know what is cool? That so many people have contacted me and have now reported seeing the exact same objects, nost of them have seen them over lake Erie as well. Some have got a good close look, all they were able to see were two huge spheres of Plasma.

I am not the only one. Is everybody just seeing swamp gas?

Are all the people who are seeing the same objects over Lake Ontario, are they also just seeing Airplanes? Even though they have filmed these exact same objects going into the water?

What about the Single orbs I an WWW.Orbwatch.com have filmed, Are there Airplanes with only one huge ball of plasma, I think not.



[edit on 12-2-2007 by Frozenthought]