I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

chissler, I read your comments before you re-edited your post.

And yes, this thread is about racism. But I tend to think that it is more "perceived" than it is actually done. I expect that people have problems with what I am saying because it is not of the "party line".

However, I tend to think that a thread like this serves no true purpose except to reinforce prejudicial attacks against people of color. I'm sorry that there is a lot of paranoia built on the fact that some white people think that all persons of color are thinking that they are racist.

I reiterate again, that if they are going around thinking that this is such, they have more problems than a thread can cure. By the evidence in this thread, not one person of color deemed the OP or white people as being racist in the thread. Not one.

And I tend to think that it is a thread that is constructed upon paranoia instead of rightfully recognizing that there are injustices in this world that need to be discussed and worked upon. And it is sheer arrogance that a simple act of paranoia is being used as a way to ignore the true issues afforded to race instead of a "perceived threat".

So ignore me and continue with the color-blind mess. I don't care. I will continue to refute this type of polemical thinking.

And no, I won't fade into the darkness. A topic like this needs a good burr in the behind.

intrepid needs to post a letter of contriteness to the members of color for the derogatory comments expressed in this thread as well as the false pretenses of the original post in using another member's post as an example to incite the prejudicial witch hunt. He also must own up to what he did verbatim. Then, it might be believed that this thread "intended no harm" instead of others speaking for him and trying to mop up the mess he made.

Other than that, I am here for the long haul whether "Mr. chisser" deems me a problem or not. And I will stay on topic.


[edit on 12-2-2007 by ceci2006]

I was honestly enjoying your post and listening to understand where you are coming from. But then you go off on a mini twist about not caring and further victimizing yourself. Honestly, your work is above that. You clearly have looked into the subject quite extensively. I'm not prepared to dispute that fact. But it is in your approach that you lose credibility, in my opinion. I was right with you on that last post, until the final sentence.

Originally posted by ceci2006
However, I tend to think that a thread like this serves no true purpose except to reinforce prejudicial attacks against people of color. I'm sorry that there is a lot of paranoia built on the fact that some white people think that all persons of color are thinking that they are racist.

Well, the thread is here to discuss the issue. There is never anything wrong with a discussion. We are sharing our opinions, thoughts, and experiences on a very sensitive subject. Knowledge is power. Your opinions, thoughts, and experiences may work as a catalyst to some information that I would of never come into. However, I don't think this thread was a blatant attack against black people. I think that intrepid used one experience to substantiate where he was coming from. In this one experience the individual happened to be black. If we want blow this out of proportion and focus on a minor detail, which we have, then we are missing the true intent of the message.

Originally posted by ceci2006
By the evidence in this thread, not one person of color deemed the OP or white people as being racist in the thread. Not one.

This is an assumption, so maybe you can, or he can, clarify if he is in fact black or white.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I don't appreciate you using one of my posts as an example in this thread, you damn racist. (you said it, not me)

From the way this thread has progressed, I am under the assumption that truthseeka is black. If that is the case, you may want to retract that previous statement.

Originally posted by ceci2006
And it is sheer arrogance that a simple act of paranoia is being used as a way to ignore the true issues afforded to race instead of a "perceived threat".

If the man happened to of been Asian, would you still be offended? The fact the man was black, is irrelevant to the discussion. Yet the color of his skin has dominated this discussion. So I am interested to hear if you would of come to bat for another individual who did not share your skin color.

Originally posted by ceci2006
So ignore me and continue with the color-blind mess. I don't care. I will continue to refute this type of polemical thinking.

Highly unnecessary. I fail to see where your name was even mentioned about ignoring others. You assume that I, or anyone else, was talking of you. I won't call it arrogance, I'll just say rethink some of what you say.

Practice what you preach.

As you do the same. After all, the true victimization does not lie with me. It lies with all of you. After all, you are the ones "playing the race card" now. Admit it and own up to it.

Take responsibility for the bed you made instead of hide it behind your "perceived" paranoia.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
After all, you are the ones ...

Who are the ones? Everyone in this thread? White people? WHo is playing the race card?

This is a discussion board. Can we not ignore one another's points?

You have said that not one member of color has proclaimed any white member a racist. I have showed something that says otherwise. I acknowledged what you have said and attempted to dispute it. In turn, you have ignored it.

I asked you if you would of been offended if the man in the example had been Asian. You fail to acknowledge the question. I will refrain from assuming, but I will press for a response. I do think that you are ducking these comments because it would only indicate that the initial response to intrepid's post, shows that the race card was played by a black member. The example used happened to be of a black man, it was an insignificant detail of a much larger picture. Focusing on this, as we have, is playing the race card. Maybe you can provide some clarity to this one as well.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by chissler]

I see no qualitative difference between the OP of this thread and a thread started by a black person saying something like:

"I am sick and tired of every damn time I go into a store they act like I'm going to steal everything that isn't bolted down!"

Both situations are frustrating and crazy-making.

I am not interested in a discussion about the difference in the quantity of the two experiences. I'll stipulate that the situation in my example here probably happens more often than what the OP was about.

But they both suck, agreed? They both are indicative of the lazy thinking engendered by stereotypes and generalizations. They both degrade the fabric of good will in the world. They both are unjust.

All the emotion and hyperbole in this thread; all the claims and counter claims about what group is doing what merely obscure the fact of the injustice in both situations.

I'm sure some white people do think all black people think all whites are racist. Just as sure as I am that some black people do think that.

We can hope that the people in both groups have some more positive experiences to maybe change their minds on this. One at a time if that's all we can get.

Double post...

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Open_Minded Skeptic]

Originally posted by ceci2006

dollmonster, I would suggest you read Ngydan's post debunking those sources a page or so back. It would shed a lot of light. Just FYI.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Michael A. Hoffman author of "They Were White and They Were Slaves," is an investigative reporter who's written several books and articles on revisionist history. What are Ngydan's credentials? Who is he to debunk this man's work? Just because something has been excluded form the official version doesn't prove anything. People didn't want to believe the Earth was round either!

Originally posted by ceci2006
Face it. The thread is about you.

Not according to the 'mostly negroid' Super Mod who is policing this thread.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Whoever doesn't heed to my advice here and doesn't stop discussing the other person will be warned as of now. I've asked repeatedly to discuss the subject. And I'll say it again. The OP did NOT mean to offend or attack anyone. If you don't believe that, go post somewhere else.

Originally posted by intrepid
OK, can we let the topic continue now?

Intrepid. Would you be kind enough to please restate exactly what this thread topic is. We know it is NOT you .... and we know that anyone who posts as if it were about you is cruising for a warning from TheBandit. Would you please restate for the record, (for those who have forgotten or gotten side tracked) EXACTLY what the topic is and what areas within that topic that you would like to discuss.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
I see no qualitative difference between the OP of this thread and a thread started by a black person saying something like:

"I am sick and tired of every damn time I go into a store they act like I'm going to steal everything that isn't bolted down!"

Both situations are frustrating and crazy-making.

< snip >

I'm sure some white people do think all black people think all whites are racist. Just as sure as I am that some black people do think that.

We can hope that the people in both groups have some more positive experiences to maybe change their minds on this. One at a time if that's all we can get.

Agreed. Acknowledge that it is thus, and will always be so regardless of what is said in this thread or on this board. Then move on and do what you personally feel is good for yourself to do to address it.

Common sense is not very common.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I'm sorry that there is a lot of paranoia built on the fact that some white people think that all persons of color are thinking that they are racist.

I take issue with your suggestion that this entire thread is based on "paranoia". It's based on something very real that many of us have gone through.

Your attempt to minimize and trivialize racism carried out against white people as simply "paranoia" -- while starting numerous threads yourself about the horrors of racism against black people -- shows your true position on the issue.

That being that racism against blacks is a very real and important issue that we should all be concerned about and work to correct... But racism against white people is "paranoia" on their part. :shk:

By the evidence in this thread, not one person of color deemed the OP or white people as being racist in the thread.

Of course the thread isn't about people calling whites racist in this thread. The thread was started based on OTHER experiences, PREVIOUS experiences, not experiences in this thread.

And if people on this board don't assume that whites are racist, can you explain this comment to me?

Originally posted by ceci2006
"I'm White. But I'm not racist", some people say. Fine. Prove it.

Link to Post

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by intrepid
OK, can we let the topic continue now?

Intrepid. Would you be kind enough to please restate exactly what this thread topic is. We know it is NOT you .... and we know that anyone who posts as if it were about you is cruising for a warning from TheBandit. Would you please restate for the record, (for those who have forgotten or gotten side tracked) EXACTLY what the topic is and what areas within that topic that you would like to discuss.

Thank you.

It's about You, Me, everyone, on a personal level. What WE are and are not accountable for. What granddad might have done is not what make you, me, everyone who we are. Placing that on people of good character is damn wrong and insulting.

I am tired of it as well. I have had several supervisory positions over black employees who consistently and purposefully played the race card.
I had one black employee who slept in the rest rooms all night long while his fellows (men and women) and I had to clean the facility we were assigned to. When the security staff found him sleeping in the rest room several times in one evening and documented it, I was called in to deal with the matter and terminated him on the spot. This employee was a soldier moonlighting who felt that all he had to do was show up and be a "warm body" to get paid. Things work differently in civilian life. Well the other blacks on the crew decided to have a mini-mutiny and went to the head of security. Unbeknown to them, he was the one who caught the employee sleeping and demanded that I fire him. Oh, and he was black. When they called him down to my office to complain about me they were sure surprised to hear him defend me in glowing terms and he went on to detail his displeasure with gold brickers and layabouts. Seems he was a retired Sargent Major. My hero. I love lifers.

[edit on 2-12-2007 by groingrinder]

Originally posted by intrepid
It's about You, Me, everyone, on a personal level. What WE are and are not accountable for. What granddad might have done is not what make you, me, everyone who we are. Placing that on people of good character is damn wrong and insulting.

I'm glad that you have reiterated this point. What we have failed to understand over the last umpteen pages is that this thread is not directed towards any specific race. We've endured quite the battle where one race seems to of oppressed another, and it has been attempted to show that this thread is a blatant attempt to bombard a race with derogatory statements. But, if you reread what the thread is actually about, none of this is even mentioned. Other than a minor detail in one example, where has this member pointed fingers at anyone specifically? We can show examples where fingers have been pointed at him directly, but can we honestly say the same of him? He has openly defended himself, but I don't think he has said two words that were meant to attack anyone.

If I defend myself, it is not necessarily an attack on "you" or anyone else. "You" in this context meaning anyone.

chissler, keep on being in denial. After all, this thread is the blind leading the blind generated from propaganda and paranoia.

Beat up on me if you guys must. But, I'm sorry. It is a thread based on paranoia and built around a witch hunt against people of color.

Trying to legitimize it now only shows that "you all" are trying to cover your derrieres. Just take responsibility and admit that this is so. Especially take responsibility and admit that you are complicit in feeding the prejudices of others and finding no problem in believing the hurtful and suspect rhetoric about people of color. Admit it.

Take responsbility and admit that you "don't even see your own color".

Take responsbility that you are paranoid that the first person of color you see will call you racist.

Take responsibility that you are so afraid of "racial identity" that you have to use an oppressive diatribe to deprive other races of theirs.

Since you folks are so fond of telling others to "take responsibility", do it.

Speaking of, I am so tired of white people being paranoid and starting up these witch hunts to blame people of color. I am also tired of white people being patently self-righteous even though they knowingly used lies and false evidence generate such a witch hunt. I am so tired of white people trying to escape their own consciences--especially when they implement this crap of "we're all human beings".

Stop trying to explain it away. Take responsibility for once.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Speaking of intrepid, his grandad didn't start this witch hunt against people of color based on paranoia. He did. And now he's got to own up to it and take responsibility for what he's done instead of ignoring the amorality and lack of ethics behind the creation of this thread.

Because of this thread, intrepid also shows that he isn't of good character because he displays a lack of ethics against one sector of the "human race" he so fondly endorses.

And this you cannot blame on old grandad either.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Holy self righteousness Batman! ceci2006 sure has everybody they have never met all figured out. ceci2006 you are so full of self denial and racist hate. Anyone who opposes unfairly being called a racist is therefore a racist because they brought the issue up to begin with. But only if they are white!!

Poppycock!

[edit on 2-12-2007 by groingrinder]

Mod Note: Please read my posts above. No discussing other members is tolerated. Discuss the topic. Let this be a reminder.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by TheBandit795]

Lights, music, dancing, all of this is nothing but a smoke screen used to distract from the message itself. Time and time again I am asking a simple question. Not even a question really, just a small point that I look for clarification on. Yet, time and time again, you fail to respond. Why is that?

If you have no agenda, why do you fail to acknowledge anything that we have said?

BH has acknowledged your so-called paranoia approach. In my opinion, she has refuted this stance with ease. Yet rather than acknowledging what she has said, you ignore it and continue to march down this road. With the music blaring and the lights flashing. Problem is, we see through this little spectacle you put on.

We see through it, and continue to politely ask for clarification. Clarification that you have yet to provide.

Turn down the music, dim the lights, and tell the dancers to go home. Some of us are interested in having an actual discussion rather than putting on a performance.

Again, I look forward to some much needed clarification on your stance. I am not in denial, I am not being defensive, I am merely looking forward to you acknowledging a few characters of my post.

Notice, groingrinder, you said I was filled with racist hate. And I didn't kick up a big stink about it. Not even to start another thread.

Maybe because I do know myself. I have self-esteem. I'm not racist despite the many accusals that are thrown my way.

So keep on being paranoid. It is so fun to watch.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by ceci2006]

groinrinder, we are not attacking any members from here on out. It does nothing to help the process and it is only fueling the fire of others to use against the few that are trying to have a legitimate discussion.

Now, you've conveniently acknowledged that post which worked in your favor. Acknowledge one or two that may cause you a moment or two to think of something that may end up contradicting one or two of your previous statements.

The statement surrounding your lack of agenda.
The statement that no member of color has attacked any white member.
The statement surrounding this whole process as an act of paranoia.

Yeah, we are waiting.

Politely, respectfully, and anxiously.





[edit on 12-2-2007 by chissler]

chissler, I decided to take your advice and go back to your post. I guess you're wrong about myself not recognizing what any of you have said.

Originally posted by chissler
I was honestly enjoying your post and listening to understand where you are coming from. But then you go off on a mini twist about not caring and further victimizing yourself. Honestly, your work is above that. You clearly have looked into the subject quite extensively. I'm not prepared to dispute that fact. But it is in your approach that you lose credibility, in my opinion. I was right with you on that last post, until the final sentence.

I'm not being a victim. I am taking charge. However, you are being paternalistic in your writing. I'm sorry you are like that (just like BH). But it isn't up to you to give me advice about what or what not I can do.

And I don't give a fig if you think otherwise. Furthermore, I don't care if you lose credibility with me. It's not that important. I will keep on expressing myself whether or not you like it. After all, this subject is not relegated to a group of people as well as the original poster "playing the race card".

Well, the thread is here to discuss the issue. There is never anything wrong with a discussion. We are sharing our opinions, thoughts, and experiences on a very sensitive subject. Knowledge is power. Your opinions, thoughts, and experiences may work as a catalyst to some information that I would of never come into.

You think? Well heck, without the rest of us, you'd be simply endorsing the hateful comments about people of color, commisserating and patting intrepid on the back.

No wait. You're doing that right now.

However, I don't think this thread was a blatant attack against black people.

Get my words right. I said a blatant attack against people of color, most namely black people.

You were there at the beginning when there was one comment which expressed animus about Chinese and Black people, were you not? In case you don't remember, I do.

I think that intrepid used one experience to substantiate where he was coming from. In this one experience the individual happened to be black. If we want blow this out of proportion and focus on a minor detail, which we have, then we are missing the true intent of the message.

Frankly, I think the truth of the matter lies in how intrepid acted in this thread and how he failed to answer for himself except for reiterating a lack of substance on his part. He did not post sources. He did not take responsibility for the language deriding people of color made in this thread. And he constantly avoided the hard questions that some of us posed (from all races).

That is the true message of this thread. Make of it as you will.

Like all historical events, one cannot forget what happened during the execution of this thread and sweep it under the rug. Events are made for remembrance. And this event is something that needs to be brought up again to make people remember about how Race-relations 101 ATS style is done.

Otherwise:

Stop trying to duck responsibility. At least one of you has to own up to the witch hunt you created. Don't try to sugar coat it.

And besides, truthseeka posted twice that he didn't think intrepid was racist. By your "evidence", you're saying that people cannot be allowed to change their minds? They are stuck to one position an entire thread?

If the man happened to of been Asian, would you still be offended?

Yes, I would. Because it would still be the same paranoia that would be created. But, let's be truthful. People have more problems with Black people. Heck, from the HUD thread to the CBC thread, people use those places to reiterate their colorblind rhetoric and write negatively how they perceive blacks.

It's no mistake that intrepid would use a black person for his example. He created a train-wreck and invited the rubber-neckers.

The fact the man was black, is irrelevant to the discussion.

Maybe in your "color-blind" rhetoric, it might be (since some of you "don't see color").

But it is relevant, in a lot of ways. Out of all those examples, he picked someone black? You've got to be kidding me. He picked someone black because it would produce a train-wreck, as I said above. There's no other way to explain it despite the attempts to make this thread benign and accomodating. It was not. It was never so. And despite denial, people remember what had happened to this thread in the very beginning.

Yet the color of his skin has dominated this discussion.

You think? I wonder why.

So I am interested to hear if you would of come to bat for another individual who did not share your skin color.

Yes. I have done so many times on this board. Why would you think I wouldn't?

Highly unnecessary. I fail to see where your name was even mentioned about ignoring others. You assume that I, or anyone else, was talking of you. I won't call it arrogance, I'll just say rethink some of what you say.

I'm glad that you would rethink it. But I know what I read. And since I don't mince words, I think it is highly arrogant on your part to say that about me in a paternalistic manner. I am not your bad dog who soiled the rug. If you believe in individuality, treat me like an adult individual.


[edit on 13-2-2007 by ceci2006]