Psych war at its best, American soldier dipping bullets with pig juice.

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Actually it's not dumb.

If you can find any Israeli official who will adopt this practice, then you have a right to call it "not dumb." Until then, it's a very idiotic measure.

Of course it is an unclean animal to the Jew also but it's not taken to the extreme like Muslims.

Last time I checked, Jews don't eat bacon either, nor use lard, nor sell pork. So where is the "extreme" you were referring to?

Believe me if it made life easier by preventing the terrorists from boarding buses, even the rabbis would line up to get on the bus!

You're right. I'm sure the Rabbis wouldn't hold any objection to sitting next to a barrel of pig fat.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by DJMessiah]

DJ, the extreme would be that these radical terrorist hold the belief that Allah will not allow them into Heaven.

Again, faced with hundreds of your countrymen from babies to grandparents being slaughtered, or having the knowledge that there is pig lard on your bus.... hmmmmmmmmm I wonder which one an Israeli would pick.... A few extreme Orthodox Jews may decide to walk, but heh... let them!

OBTW here is a link and there are many more that back my idea.

pig lard buses

rabbi proposes pig lard



[edit on 9-2-2007 by on_yur_6]

Originally posted by on_yur_6
DJ, the extreme would be that these radical terrorist hold the belief that Allah will not allow them into Heaven.

Is that extreme? Correct me if I'm wrong, but both Muslims and Jews consider it a sin if they touched pig flesh, so again where is the extreme?

Again, faced with hundreds of your countrymen from babies to grandparents being slaughtered, or having the knowledge that there is pig lard on your bus.... hmmmmmmmmm I wonder which one an Israeli would pick....

Let's see...taking a risk by taking a bus that a terrorists might blow up, or taking a risk by taking a bus filled with pig fat that a terrorist my blow up?

You're right. Who can object to the latter choice?

A few extreme Orthodox Jews may decide to walk, but heh... let them!

Once again, you're using the word "extreme." Would it be extreme to follow the Torah and believe in Leviticus 11:7?

I guess you missed the links DJ.

Originally posted by on_yur_6
OBTW here is a link and there are many more that back my idea.

From your link:

The Ma'ariv daily says the rabbinical dispensation could mean that security forces also hang bags of lard in shopping malls and schools.

Right, not a dumb idea after all. Who wouldn't want to carry bags of pig fat around with them at the mall? Aren't all the teenagers lining up to do this new trend?

But why stop there? Why not make clothing with packets of pig fat on them. Better yet, start serving pork at Israeli McDonalds so that no terrorist blows up the McDonalds. Heck, they can even rub pig fat on their house walls, so that no terrorist comes near their home. I think this idea might catch on quick!

[edit on 9-2-2007 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by on_yur_6
OBTW here is a link and there are many more that back my idea.

From your link:

The Ma'ariv daily says the rabbinical dispensation could mean that security forces also hang bags of lard in shopping malls and schools.

Right, not a dumb idea after all.

Who wouldn't want to carry bags of pig fat around with them at the mall. Aren't all the teenagers lining up to do this new trend?

But why stop there? Why not make clothing with packets of pig fat on them. Better yet, start serving pork at Israeli McDonalds so that no terrorist blows up the McDonalds. Heck, they can even rub pig fat on their house walls, so that no terrorist comes near their home. I think this idea might catch on quick!

[edit on 9-2-2007 by DJMessiah]

It says "Hang" not "Carry."

Anyway you thought it would be impossible to find any public official supporting the idea, and not only did I do that, a rabbi proposed something similar.

Back to blood on bullets... Sounds like even the Israelis would be for it. (just might wear gloves while dipping the bullets)

I'm not for putting vats of pig lard on a bus, but for using pig parts for psci-ops is just fine.
Putin was right we weren't harsh enough with our tactics. We need to out terrorize the terrorists, and personally leaving a job like that to just average americans won't do were obviously too big a group of softies. You need SF guys to do hits and attrocities so vile that even the terrorists back down and think we are crazy, and that leaving us alone is better than their rightiousness.

We haven't gone vicious enough, fear needs to be struck into these people, ala vlad the impailer, or ganghis kahn style. Scare them back to where they came from. Literally give them hell. send them a message they can't refuse, we have the means just not the guts. Some of us do but not all.

As for the Iraqi war, dumb idea. Terorizing terrorists good idea. Even god had horrible angels to unleash on satans minions and scare them back in line. Angeles that scare demons. Must be some pretty hardcore and scary angeles, We have that we just don't let them loose. We need to.

I wonder what patton would have done?

Originally posted by on_yur_6
It says "Hang" not "Carry."

These bags of fat are supposed to appear out of no where? No one carries it into the mall?

Anyway you thought it would be impossible to find any public official supporting the idea, and not only did I do that, a rabbi proposed something similar.

Considering that the measure was proposed in 2004 or earlier (article was written in 2004), how many attacks have happened on Israeli buses since then?

Back to blood on bullets... Sounds like even the Israelis would be for it. (just might wear gloves while dipping the bullets)

If they did that, what would stop Palestinian terrorists from doing the same?

Sounds like the pig blood and pig fat industry is going to boom soon in that area.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
We need to out terrorize the terrorists[...]

That's right! In order to rid the world of terrorism in this "war on terrorism", we must...promote it! Two wrongs don't make a right. Violence will only stop violence when there is no one left. What would be the harm in diplomacy?

You need SF guys to do hits and attrocities so vile that even the terrorists back down and think we are crazy, and that leaving us alone is better than their rightiousness.

I would hate to ask what you're thinking of doing. Whatever it is, it will make the world see US in a very bad light. Not to mention, go against many international humanitarian laws.

We haven't gone vicious enough, fear needs to be struck into these people, ala vlad the impailer, or ganghis kahn style.

Because these people are regarded as heroes through out history, right?

Scare them back to where they came from.

You're right! That will show those darn Iraqi terrorists to go back to....Iraq!

Literally give them hell.

Give them hell, so that they turn that aggression even more on the civilians?

send them a message they can't refuse

Teaching democracy to Iraqis at its best, I see. I'm sure Iraqi officials will be sure to use this tactic on civilians to show them what they've learned.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by DJMessiah]

War is dirty. Although there are so-called regulations proposed by NATO limiting military wafare conduct and monitoring engagement, etc Do you really think that the enemy might be honoring those rules ? I served. My brother still in service. I have been engaged in a few "skirmashes" so I'm aware of the desparation to find an "edge" in combat if you will.

Were I to go back, would I participate in this ? Of course I would. Sure, I DO think it's a little childish, but unless you yourself have had the opportunity to be shot at I can tell you I'd do ANYTHING to deter my opponent(s) to think twice before committing. Would I personally take liberty or enjoyment knowing I am participating in desecration of their beliefs ?? NO

Folks, there are more than a few soilders left with honor so don't judge them and don't judge those who "support us". My brother is over there right now fighting with his gun so that HERE in the U.S. I will never have to pick up another one, that which I happily lay to rest.

Simple truth of war is kill or be killed. Sadly no time to ponder morality or ethics. This is not a video game and there are no extra lives or cheat codes.....

Originally posted by _DISAVOWED_
Simple truth of war is kill or be killed. Sadly no time to ponder morality or ethics. This is not a video game and there are no extra lives or cheat codes.....

I think most people here understand that, what gets me is the double standard displayed by certain posters in this kind of matter. It's one thing to say 'It's war, kill or be killed' and accept that as a universal truth of war but quite another to quote it to excuse your own sides wrongdoing while at the same time condemning the enemy for not playing fair.

The responses here are typical but that's alright. Let us examine the video and find any sort of evidence that this action was taken by a soldier and not just some bigot at home in Texas and touted as a soldier in Iraq. We should ascertain it's validity first off.

Freedom_for_sum,

You're only taking religious arguments into perspective against Muslims and not economic, social and political among many others that brought about 9/11. Your selective bigotry is a result of your narrow perception on world events and how they unfold and nay a true analytical. And stop being so intellectually aggressive, it's an abhorant quality among learned men and a sign of ignorance.

Muslims by and large are not bent on ridding the world of infidels nor are they sub-consciously driven by religious texts and connotations; this is just propaganda spouted by people such as yourself to create a culture of fear, nothing more.

Luxifero

Originally posted by Regensturm
Well guess what? That's some more Iraqi hearts and minds you've lost, that's more Muslims you've angered.

Regen I gave you the WAY ABOVE for sharing your insight on this issue to wich I wholeheartedly agree

Originally posted by Luxifero
The responses here are typical but that's alright. Let us examine the video and find any sort of evidence that this action was taken by a soldier and not just some bigot at home in Texas and touted as a soldier in Iraq. We should ascertain it's validity first off.

Freedom_for_sum,

You're only taking religious arguments into perspective against Muslims and not economic, social and political among many others that brought about 9/11. Your selective bigotry is a result of your narrow perception on world events and how they unfold and nay a true analytical. And stop being so intellectually aggressive, it's an abhorant quality among learned men and a sign of ignorance.

Muslims by and large are not bent on ridding the world of infidels nor are they sub-consciously driven by religious texts and connotations; this is just propaganda spouted by people such as yourself to create a culture of fear, nothing more.

Luxifero

Luxifero your a breath of fresh air to this thread, ncely said.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
How about instead of using violence to quell violence, people turn to diplomacy and understand what is causing terrorism, than create more of it?

ya! Sure! Use diplomacy on a bunch of zealots who have such little regard for human life in general that they think nothing of blowing themselves up to kill whomever happens to be in the vicinity.

DJ Messiah;

Just because you claim I misquoted Islamic texts doesn't mean I did. I only ever used the exact words from the texts. You, on the other hand, repeatedly misinterpret them completely to fulfill your own apologetic agendas. I assure you the "literalists" don't see the same thing you see whe nthey read the texts.

This whole thing is just such a stupid idea. First of all their Religious laws are for their keeping. If they go near or ingest pork of their own volition. If they were forced to eat,ingest or absorb it involuntarily I'm sure that there would be some sort of religious dispensation that would allow for it and surely if it became some sort of fighting tactic being used it would definitly be counteracted by dispensation. The whole idea is just so clammy. Some people come up with the most insane ideas all for the sake of religion. Its embarrassing enough if this idiot is a US soldier, I sure hope the rest of these people supporting this or any other idea involving pork products are not American as well. Why not just put Mohammed transfers on the bullets too and this way they can have images of their prophet imbedded in their bodies too. This guy is a true loser and a shame to America wether he is a soldier or not. I hope if he is a soldier they find out who it is and go after him for incitement.

Were this to be for real (which I do not see) who cares ?? I would'nt care if our boys wanted to dress up in Magic Genie costumes waving giant Scimtars....this is war. Be it YOUR own agenda or what, the fact is a soilder has one goal. Stay alive.

The purpose of this alleged controversy is obviously deterance....man how is that a bad thing ?? It is what's in their belief that we are taking advatage of, but we are not openly assasinating insurgents when they are in their Mosque's at sundown....I mean c'mon it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Get off the whole "it's so barbaric" issue. It is their "belief". No different than any other religion. I find it ironic for those who defend the enemy. Ironic that you who do YOURSELVES would be killed on site, where you stand by an insurgent. ONE for being an American, and TWO for being judged as a Christian even if you were'nt.

NO not all Muslim's or Islam promotes "killing the infidels", but the ones we are fighting, and the terrorists carrying out acts sure do.

Please bring the flame on

some people don't get war, and thats ok, but morals are not any part of war and eliminating a threat. THis is a threat that can't be reasoned with. THe only solution is to remove the threat.

Turning the other cheek in theory is all nice but in actuallity never works in real life when posed with a threat that won't back down. We think we're right,but they "know' they are right. There is no way to reason with someone who has this stance.

The only way to deal with it is to hope it goes away (that didn't work), diplomacy (that didn't work) WAR-killing your enemy works. The only problem is that we are too soft on the elimination part. Mainly becuase most of us have never seen combat and don't know what it's really like( I haven't either other than a few street fights, one I even got arrested for, but I've talked to enough people who have, and have recieved their message loud and clear, these are accomplished career soldiers saying this stuff.)

As a population we can't tell our proffesional soldiers how to do their job and expect it to work. Thats like walking up to a NFL coach and telling him how to do his job. He's the expert not us armchair coaches/generals/diplomats at home. In real life we need to listen to the experts. Most SF guys say putting the fear back to them and shameing them works the best. Not turning the other cheek. Everytime we do that they say to themselves "they turned the other cheek again!, damn these people are stupid and ignorant of how war works."

THere are two parts to a war for survival. Eliminating the enemy thuroughly, something our misguided morals on war has led us to fail in, and psychologically breaking them. (this part is even more cruel but the most necessary)

Thats the point of bringing up Vlad the Impailer. He put the enemy's head on pikes all along the border of his country, before that the enemy had nothing to fear from the romainians. Romainia was being invaded by turkey. The heads stoped the invasion. Nobody wanted to end up like that guy on the stick, not worth it to them.

Ganghis Kahn had one of the largest territories of any leader, and made it that size in record time. His secret. kill everybody (enemy) old enough to remember what he had done. Leave an ember burning and fire will eventually start. He put out the potential embers before it became a problem. Eventually his kingdom fell, but it took a good long time for it to, and it wasn't related to his origional campaign.

If a bully or some dude attacks you in the street and you beat him down to where he can't fight back then what do you do.
A. go 'have you learned your lesson now, are you going to be good boy now?" and walk away.

B. administer medical help to the guy and say. even though you attacked me, sorry for attacking you back, no hard feelings.

or

C. once they are down keep kicking them over and over even though they beg you to stop, until they are broken both physically and mentaly, and never want to mess with you or repeat that behavior again.

The correct answer is C. Sounds cruel but its the truth.

BASSPLYR, you are the kind of armchair general I was addressing in my previous post. I assume we won't hear you crying foul over any suicide bombings, terrorist attacks or any other kind of attacks against US interests because it's all part of

Eliminating the enemy thuroughly, something our misguided morals on war has led us to fail in, and psychologically breaking them.

and of course

morals are not any part of war and eliminating a threat

You guys treat this like this is even worse than the insurgents' method of cutting off someone's head. All this guy was doing was dipping a couple of bullets in SPAM or something and you guys are like "this guy crossed the line." "O yeah he's in big trouble."

[edit on 9-2-2007 by deltaboy]