We, As Americans, Have Got To Change Our Attitudes!!

You know, I am a victim of this ideology too, but it seems to be rampant here on these boards. Americans seem to have this notion that people in other countries "hate" America. The fallacy in this line of thought is that it is contrary to the experience of most Americans who travel to foreign countries.

I listened to Glenn Kimball last night on Coast to Coast, and he talked about how people all over the world are generally good people. He related an experience that he had while walking in through a group of "anti-American" protestors in Bolivia, I believe. One of the central/South American countries...

Anyway, he said that he was "amazed" at the sense of friendliness and kindness that those protestors showed him even though he is American. I have also heard first hand from people that have been to other countries, even some that are supposed to be our "enemies," that they couldn't have asked to have been treated better. They said it was like they were "royalty."

With all of that being said, I think that it is important that we realize that there is a sharp contrast between the people view our policies and the way they view Americans. Some will say, "Well, isn't it obvious that people from Europe and such take pock shots at America every chance they get?" Yes. However, look at how we respond to their "pock shots."

We become overly personal about it and get wound up over it. Hasn't it ever occurred to anyone here that some people, particularly some of the international posters here, so it just for a good laugh? You know that there are some posters here, especially from England and such, who say to themselves, "Let me see how much Yank blood I can get to boil today!!"

I say that weneed to quite operating off of assumption and operate on fact. Am I saying that all people from other countries just love America and americans? Hell, no!! I will tell you that I think the majority do, and those that don't "love" us, at least have respect...

This is just something I felt I needed to get off of my chest.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I really wanna believe your post and I'm not saying its untrue but I've heard the exact opposite from other sources.

I've read posts and articles on other sites that say we would be surprised just how badly Americans are treated when we go to other countries.

I don't really know who or what to believe.

Kacen, well, sometimes I think it depends on who the American is as well. Let's be honest, there are assholes everywhere you go. Americans are not immune from this title. I think that it really depends on how an American presents him/herself in another country. Most people in other countries probably have an idealization of "how an American should be." If we don't present that image to them, then naturally they are going to react in a harsh manner.

Thing is I've heard stories of Americans acting nonchalant and just normal going into countries like Canada and having people view them with contempt. Even view them with suspicion.

And Americans in France can get treated badly too.

nonchalant - marked by blithe unconcern; "an ability to interest casual students"; "showed a casual disregard for cold weather"; "an utterly insouciant financial policy"; "an elegantly insouciant manner"; "drove his car with nonchalant abandon"; "was polite in a teasing nonchalant manner"

Source

The problem with being "nonchalant" is that it can be mistaken for arrogance.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

You are right SpeakerofTruth, American people on the whole aren't hated.

I really do hate The American governments foreign policy because of the uncertainty in causes in the world, I want my son to grow up in a peacful world and I don't want to have to fight in a war sparked off by some moron in the white house who thinks he knows what's best for other countries!

The way alot of Americans act when something is said against the USA is quite embarrasing, I mean I love my country but I admit it has it's issues and if someone want's to discuss that then they should feel free.

There seems to be an awful lot of paranoia amongst American's. I can't really blame them as we in Europe see the campaign fought by Washington to make normal Americans afraid to leave the house.

Über Patriotism is counter productive and makes Americans appear VERY VERY arrogant and this mentality ruin the threads on ATS, if it wasn't for Americans like SpeakerofTruth I would have stopped posting on ATS.

NOT EVERYBODY hates you America, in fact some of our girls find your accents "CUTE" But if you all come over here again and steal our woman like you did after WWII then we'll have to kick your backside's

Be safe

I just got back from Brazil, and I was treated very well over there by just about everybody I met. I usually heard the whole "I hate Bush," "F--- Bush," etc., but nothing personal. There was one case, however, where I was at a graduation party and someone apparently made a crack about 9/11. It was one of the student speakers who was talking about certain holidays. My friend translated, and from what he told me, she said something like "We Brazilians drink to many occasions. Christmas...Valentine's day...9/11." Everybody laughed, I just sat there going "What....?" Other than that, everybody was very nice and friendly towards me. Brazil is the only country other than the U.S that I've been to so far, though, so I can't speak for the rest of the world. I do think there is some bias, but for the most part when you meet somebody, you're an individual not a nationality.

Good, and very relevant OP.

Please allow me as a non-American to jump in, because open and frank discussions with Americans is what I sought when I joined ATS. Not that I don't have any other possibilities conversing them than on ATS, but... Let me just say, in my hopeful youth I spend a lot of time with'm.

In Copenhagen, which back then was a refuge for drafters on the run from Uncle Sams war in Vietnam, there were tens of thousands of them. Some of my best friends (of both sexes) married Americans, beside the whole town teemed with'm. Later on I travelled for a couple of years in N Africa ME and S Asia, and Americans were always the best companions.

My point is, that we wasn't apart, despite an American war raging in SE Asia, in fact that war was a uniting point between us.

Now there's another war raging and I'm residing in Thailand, as a lot of Americans also are, and I know a few, but I find the Iraq war to be a dividing factor in our relationships. It is not because they're rednecks or anything like that, we hold quite similar views on politics. But it is because of a monster called Nationalism polarizes everytyhing these days.

Let me also say, being a child of WW2, growing up in a world of shortage, and by our liberators, the US Army, introduced to a world of abundance with nylon stockings, chewing gum, hearsey bars and camels and luckies and -- not to forget -- jazz and rock'n roll, I've always loved America, its people, the culture -- and most of all its music. But never its politics. Always hated them, in fact the worst fears I ever had was of the bomb.

My home was about 100 miles North of Berlin and the constant conflicts over that city made me expect the big bomb any time. It was horrible and I was 8-10 years old. Later on, through ideologies, I learned to deal with the fear and tried to do something by joining side - the socialist side, of course. No hindrance at all in my connections with Americans.

These days -- though I don't declare myself a socialist or anything like that -- I must say I have a hard time with Americans. They are touchy about any attacks on their nation and its values, busy defending its institutions -- despite they might not even agree with them. There's just such a feeling of "WE(the best)" contra "they" amongst todays Americans, were it back then in the days of the Nam war was "US(the people)" and "them".

I don't know how to put it clear, but it has to do with more emphasis on the superiority of certain "core values", like patriot, honour, serve, duty etc., definately values more American than European.

Beside an element growing bigger and bigger, nowadays undisputed, but almost absent back then, ...and it is religion. Christianity when it is worst. I don't disdain religion, far from, but it is becoming -- and it's not Muslims I'm talking about -- so fundamental now in America that it gives me the creep.

Hypocrisy is putting out its veil, and you don't miss your water before your well runs dry.

Substitute "water" with "freedom".

In other words, the sense of "freedom" is becoming less and less, when your with Americans. I don't know if it has to do with decline of the actual freedoms stated in the constitution -- you know, just a piece of paper.

A line of an old Janis Joplin song springs to my mind: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

...is it so Americans just got too much to lose these days?

Despite their rights being cut like a salami.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by khunmoon]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Most people in other countries probably have an idealization of "how an American should be." If we don't present that image to them, then naturally they are going to react in a harsh manner.

????

We are who we are. We don't need to 'play an image' to anyone. If foreigners expect one thing but get another ... that's not our problem and I really don't care what foreigners think of Americans.

Sorry .. but I totally disagree with what I think you are saying here.

Every country evidently has good and bad people but the environment can swing the majority I guess. And there is good stuff as well as alot of junk spewing out this particular country. I think its about resisting things unagreeable to your ideal that your environment throws at you. So random Americans can't be accused for particular things. I admire you who feel a responsibility to prove your countries mainstream international image wrong. But i guess you can say America is the mental asylum of Earth and that money doesn't buy everything.



[edit on 9-2-2007 by Selmer2]

Khunmoon,

Great post, but I'm not sure I agree with you about the religious thing. Thanks to organizations like the ACLU and just the overall explosion of ridiculous political correctness standards, living here I can definitely say that people are less religious than, say, 50 years ago. I mean damn, in my parents day, it would be "Merry Christmas! God loves you, Jesus died for you, soon we shall all ascend to heaven and be with Jesus the one and only etc. etc." Now it's "Happy..um...holidays... That's not offensive is it? Holi...kinda like holy...I hope I didn't offend anyone. Sorry if I did."

My home was about 100 miles North of Berlin and the constant conflicts over that city made me expect the big bomb any time

Khunmoon, I am not going to promise you that America will "never" use the bomb again. I don't know that. However,I can tell you with some degree of certainty that I don't think, regardless of who holds the presidency, that it will ever be done unless it is a have to case. Now, I know that is not much consolation for the rest of the world. However, one needs to understand why the "bomb" was dropped to begin with.

The Germans and the other axis powers had already surrendered during the Second World War. Japan was the only ones who refused to surrender. They bunkered down in the mountains and planned and strategized for their next move. Hell, for all we know, we could still be fighting them if we hadn't of dropped the "bomb."

I understand your fear because we in the states also fear it. I think a bigger threat of the "bomb" being used is by someone like Iran or North Korea. Maybe I am stereotyping in that statement, but I feel like their governments are of more of the mentality to use it off of the cuff than America is.

Thanks for your answer Speaker, I do understand that the bomb was used to stop further destruction and bloodshed, that 300.000+ had to die to save millions.

I recognize the use, despit most of my life working for disarmament. Understand the geo-strategic position of Denmark, the entrance to the Baltic and the first in line if anything came from the East. We would have been occupied in the first hours in case of an open E-W conflict ...and probably nuked in the first days ...no matter who had occupied us. So yes, we were scared.

But this thread is about Americans as they are perceived by the world and what can be done to change the given perception, if I understand tittle and OP correct.

What makes Americans great compared to Euroes is they are far less prejudical and much more open and giving than us. At least that what I remember them as, but I understand you have to be more cautious nowadays. Unfortunately it also leads to be more prejudical.

But as has been pointed out here, there's no real reason for that, as people generally love other people and most have the ability to seperate the individual from politics of their govt.

Except for Muslims maybe. And that's what makes it really sad to me, cause of all the people I've met on my travels Muslims sure are the most hospital, proud but yet gentle of them all. Yes, you read right, just keep in mind that this was almost forty years ago. Iranians were a bit of a hassle, but Afghans where the kindest folks you could imagine back then. I've great respect for them and it saddens me to think what has happened to that country since then.

For Herman, about the religion in America, I'll say that it probably wasn't the most religious I met in the sixties, but from what I sense these days, beliefs are polarizing in politics and circles of power and from what I understand from the press (and this board) certainly got a grip in some segments of Americans. Most frightning in top politics.

Remember former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder who some months ago published his memories giving detailed accounts of his meeting with GWB prior to the invasion of Iraq.

"The impression arises that political decisions are the result of a dialogue with God", he writes. To a European they are shocking and that alone justifies fully to keep Germany out of the mess.

I did a thread on it, in case you wanna know more www.abovepolitics.com...

According to Schroeder it was a lunatic he met. And i think that's what it comes down to, the difference between America and Europe... a politician in America would make a lunatic in Europe ...and politician in Europe would make a wimp in America.

Problem: the divide is getting bigger.

It is true that many countries hate US government policies. However, they are wise enough to know that the Policies of our government don't reflect the beliefs of everyone in the USA. When people attribute the policies of a government to all the people that live in that country, they are displaying pure ignorance. Even in a society based on democatic ideals, no one agrees with everything that is done.

Tim

Originally posted by khunmoon
Remember former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder who some months ago published his memories giving detailed accounts of his meeting with GWB prior to the invasion of Iraq.

"The impression arises that political decisions are the result of a dialogue with God", he writes. To a European they are shocking and that alone justifies fully to keep Germany out of the mess.

I did a thread on it, in case you wanna know more www.abovepolitics.com...

According to Schroeder it was a lunatic he met. And i think that's what it comes down to, the difference between America and Europe... a politician in America would make a lunatic in Europe ...and politician in Europe would make a wimp in America.

Problem: the divide is getting bigger.

I agree.. Most people here in the states think that if a democrat had been in office rather than a republican when 9/11 occurred, the U.S wouldn't have retaliated at all. There is a bias against liberal ideology here in the states that views liberalism as being very weakish and submissive to the wants of the rest of the world. I suspect that most Americans view European politics in that same light. Whether it be justified or not, I don't know.

As far as Schroder's impression of Bush, I can't say much. He certainly isn't the same guy that was governor of Texas... I don't know if power and wealth has went to his head or what, but there is a distinct diiference between the Bush of say, fifteen years ago, and the one we currently view now.

In most area of the Earth to say you are an American will get you stabbed and killed. That is the truth, and the truth hurts.

This is what they would like to do to most Americans:

Its funny how many Democrat's were supportive of all the efforts the US made after 911, until they got there @$$es kicked in the election. Now its "oh my, I never supported the war". Get real all elected officials will say what ever they need to get a vote.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Royal76]

Originally posted by Royal76
In most area of the Earth to say you are an American will get you stabbed and killed. That is the truth, and the truth hurts.

This is what they would like to do to most Americans:

[edit on 12-2-2007 by Royal76]

And you come by this "knowledge" from where? First hand experierience I presume...

Royal,

All I know is I was in some pretty shady areas of Brazil on foot. As an obvious gringo, I was met with almost zero hostility other than begging. A lot of them hated Bush, but they didn't take it out on me. At least not physically.

Originally posted by Royal76
In most area of the Earth to say you are an American will get you stabbed and killed. That is the truth, and the truth hurts.

That is absolutely ridiculous.

Its funny how many Democrat's were supportive of all the efforts the US made after 911, until they got there @$$es kicked in the election. Now its "oh my, I never supported the war". Get real all elected officials will say what ever they need to get a vote.

Um... wait. What does this have to do with democrats or republicans? And are you referring to 2004, when the democratic presidential candidate lost? Or 2006, when the democratic party took control of the house and senate? In fact, neither one of those did they get their butts kicked. The presidential election was relatively a close one too, hence all the screaming over what may/may not have happened in Ohio.