Obama's Church: Not Your Average Christian Church

reply to post by laiguana


it's not about racial ties, it's about cultural ties. it's basically the same as going to a polish catholic church that still holds 1 mass every week in polish.

i've read the statement, it really doesn't scare those who don't have a racial bias.

could someone highlight the racism?

oh... and he doesn't really have ties to islam at all. it's just bigoted fear mongering.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why are we talking about the guy's religion? yes, i know what i've heard, it sounds less than pleasent, but do you really think obama devoutly follows his church?

Which is then? he either is christian so therefore not muslim but he isn't devoutedly christian when his church is shown to be a racially motivated church.

you can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
could someone highlight the racism?

Go to the opening post. Substitute the word "Black" with the word "White"
re-read the post and if you think that the white version sounds racist you have your answer.
cheers,
BM

reply to post by Ben Miller


That's an extremely false and illogical dichotomy. He's either devoutly Christian, or devoutly Muslim? I think everyone can see how absurd that line of thinking actually is.

reply to post by Ben Miller


Once again, you oversimplify. As I said in a previous, very long post, the substitution of 'white' for 'black' doesn't equate to racism when taken into historical context.

But then again, when does context ever matter.

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Rasobasi420]

I see nothing wrong with a church that ministers primarily to a black population. The "black values" that it espouses seem admirable to me, even though I am a caucasian. For a long time I attended a church that was mainly white; it was open to all people but in actuality it attracted mostly caucasians. Like Trinity it tried to instill cultural values as well as Christian ones. They didn't use the term "white values" simply because, as they relate to the dominant majority, all values are considered white values unless proven otherwise; there is no need to specify that they are white. I don't believe my old church is racist anymore than I believe Trinity is racist. They just have different congregations.

I don't see that Obama's church preaches against white people. It just doesn't seem to be concerned with white people at all. Maybe some of us caucasians are offended because we don't like to be left out of anything; this is an experience that minorities deal with all the time. Insofar as Trinity church aims to inspire and uplift its congegation, it seems admirable to me. If a white person wanted to attend Obama's church, I very much doubt they would be turned away.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
the substitution of 'white' for 'black' doesn't equate to racism ...

Sure it does. The 'historical context' thing is just excusing via ethno-babble. (no offense Ras). You are entitled to your opinion of course .. but I strongly disagree with it.

BTW .. for anyone interested ... The church has now sanitized it's 'about us' page. Gone are the strong references to 'black'. This was predicted by some at ATS to happen.

story here
I admit the source stinks ... but the story is true.

reply to post by FlyersFan


FF, it's not in question that black people have suffered massive injustice at the hands of those in power (primarily white people). And the effects of those injustices are still widely felt. Just because it's out of sight to some doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Showing solidarity in the face of overwhelming opposition is not 'ethno-babble'. It's really the only way to make it through said opposition.

RAS - you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.


THIS STORY confirms that both Obama AND that church did a santizing of their websites in the past few days. Obama removed his references and support to it AND the church cleaned up their anti-white rhetoric.

Little Green Footballs confirms.

This was all predicted by some folks here at ATS that it would happen.

EXPOSED

I found what Obama's church bases it't theology on.
It's a book by James Cone. Read up. Interesting 'theology'.

[edit on 4/2/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by FlyersFan


From your source:

"What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love," Mr. Cone wrote in the book.

Mr. Cone, a professor at the Union Theological Seminary in New York, added that "black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy."

What a warped, twisted philosophy. How arrogant, to presume to dictate terms to your Creator.

Good find, FF.

reply to post by jsobecky


Maybe I'm alone here, but during the time that the book was written (Civil Rights era 60's) the turbulence between the black and white population was violent and massive. Peaceful protesters were often shot with fire hoses, and dogs were sent to attack people 'sitting in'. A reasonable response to violent oppression is violent revolution. After all, it worked for this great nation of ours during our revolution didn't it?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
during the time that the book was written ....

that's the key. 'during that time'. It isn't 'that time' now. And for people to base a religion on what is said in a book from almost 50 years ago - base a religion on hate and the destruction of white people - demanding God bow down to their wants -

All I can say is and

Sorry ras.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

that's the key. 'during that time'. It isn't 'that time' now.

But the effects of that time, and the hundreds of years proceeding are still felt and far reaching. And although the book may say some pretty extraordinary things, the church obviously doesn't preach all of the methods described in it.

And as for Obama's position in that church, he made it pretty clear in his famous speech.

And for people to base a religion on what is said in a book from almost 50 years ago

Is more reasonable than people basing a religion on what is said in a book from 2000+ years ago.

demanding God bow down to their wants -

Every religion demands God bow down to their wants. Except they usually falsely claim that it's what God wants.

reply to post by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
reply to post by jsobecky

 

Maybe I'm alone here, but during the time that the book was written (Civil Rights era 60's) the turbulence between the black and white population was violent and massive. Peaceful protesters were often shot with fire hoses, and dogs were sent to attack people 'sitting in'. A reasonable response to violent oppression is violent revolution. After all, it worked for this great nation of ours during our revolution didn't it?

I remember the 60's and 70's being the era of "free love". Absent the war,it would have been considered a true renaissance. It has nothing to do with the current twisted, warped philosophy of the Trinity Church.

Every religion demands God bow down to their wants.

Bullcrap.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Every religion demands God bow down to their wants.

Bullcrap.

Of course they do. Every religion, and every individual for that matter defines their god based on their personal value system (although most believe it happens the other way around). That's why you have people saying "God hates Jews" and "God hates homos" and all that jazz. Conversely, it also results in good people doing good deeds and expressing love in the name of their god. Of course it has little to do with God, but more one's personal feelings.

So, in that way, everyone who believes in a god, has their god bow to their will.

And as for the 60s, sure it was all about peace, love and freedom. But, if freedom isn't given, it must be taken. The fact is that freedom was willfully taken from people, and when those people had enough, they (and their God) will fight back against oppression.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
The fact is that freedom was willfully taken from people, and when those people had enough, they (and their God) will fight back against oppression.

This is 2008, not 1965. Everyone in America is free to persue happiness.

The point is that they will not worship a God that doesn't bow to their demands. It isn't - 'they and their God' fighting .. It's just them. If God doesn't see it their way then they don't worship Him.

They have abandoned the words of Christ when He taught us to pray. He said to God - 'thy will be done'. They do not believe in God unless He does their will ... bows down to fix what they think is wrong.

Apparently God disagrees with them and the white man is not to blame for all the worlds problems.

I dont' see any self responsibility promoted with all this 'blame whitey' religion. It isn't the white mans fault that 3/4 of black children are abandoned by their black fathers. It isn't the white mans fault whenever a black youth decides to smoke crack and sell it to his 'brothers'. Black gangs ... black on black violence ... none of it is the white mans fault. They need to open their eyes to self responsibility.

“There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs—partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.” —Booker T. Washington

This so-called 'black liberation theology' feeds into the obsession that some black people have with their own skin color. They don't understand that most Americans don't care what color they are. This 'black liberation theology' is self segregating.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If God doesn't see it their way then they don't worship Him.

But they do worship him, and God does support them as far as their concerned, otherwise they wouldn't be in church would they?

Apparently God disagrees with them and the white man is not to blame for all the worlds problems.

See what I mean when I say that God bows down to the individual? Right here you're saying that God holds your personal beliefs. It's an amazing thing right?

It isn't the white mans fault that 3/4 of black children are abandoned by their black fathers.

The figure is actually closer to 50% actually.

It isn't the white mans fault whenever a black youth decides to smoke crack and sell it to his 'brothers'.

The CIA did import mass quantities of coc aine into the US with a target on the black community. So, it sort of is 'The Man's' fault.

Black gangs ... black on black violence ... none of it is the white mans fault. They need to open their eyes to self responsibility.

Economic instability, decreased budgeting of social services, increased aggressiveness of law enforcement officials against 'certain types' who 'fit the description'. Maybe not all the 'white man's' fault, but certainly "The Man's" fault.

This so-called 'black liberation theology' feeds into the obsession that some black people have with their own skin color. They don't understand that most Americans don't care what color they are. This 'black liberation theology' is self segregating.

Most Americans are rational people. It's not the majority that matter, it's the minority of the people who have all of the wealth and power, and refuse to give it up. This minority elite are white by the way, in case you weren't aware. This minority needs to be fought against, tooth and nail, otherwise there will be no change.

The CIA will continue to import coc aine and push it into the black community. The situation in the ghettos will not improve unless social programs are created and supported that make a conscious effort to benefit the community. And, until social programs that help ghetto youth are supported we'll continue to have violent crime, black on black crime and black on white crime.

Simply put, the easiest and most profitable option for many youth is through drugs. And, since these drugs are coming from our own government, it looks to me like there is a concerted effort to 'keep the black man down'.

You may not see it every day, but it is certainly there. You can ignore it, but that won't make it go away. And you can vilify those who try to fight against it, but that only makes you look like you support it.

Obama resigns from his church

Well ... this is either

1 - better late then never .... or
2 - too little too late.


I'm going with too little too late and I doubt his sincerity in resignation.
It's 20 years too late. I see political reasons for this.

Yes ... damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Obama's words upon leaving - "I'm not denouncing the church and I'm not interested in people who want me to denounce the church," he said, adding that the new pastor at Trinity and "the church have been suffering from the attention my campaign has focused on them."

Not much of a denouncing of what is going on there.
He's making that cesspool out to be the victim here instead of
acknowledging the fact that THEY are the perps.