Obama's Church: Not Your Average Christian Church

Barack Obama has encountered questions and controversy regarding his past schooling and his religion. But his supporters have consistently portrayed him as being just your regular Christian, and have pointed to the church he is a member of, the Chicago's Trinity United Church Of Christ as proof. However, a closer look at this church reveals that it is strongly dedicated to Black values and traditions, and imparts political messages to it's members.




This seems to conflict with Obama's message of oneness and inclusion when he makes his speeches in front of the public. The church is also strongly very political and anti-Bush administration, as illustrated by the sermon What's Goin' On, included in the source link.

Related News Links:
www.tucc.org

Let me make some edits...

*type**type**type*

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Community
3. Commitment to the Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all leadership who espouse and embrace the Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Value System.

When you put it that way, I like it. What I can't figure out is why a Christian church would advocate for this semi-apartheid? My best friend is African American, and he goes to an African American church. I love going, everyone is incredibly gracious and upbeat, and doesn't subscribe to this philosophy.

A creed like this seeks and succeeds only to make the community insular. At worse, it is a way to control the church population by convincing them that they can't work together with everyone else for personal improvement.

Why do they speak of "black values"? My values, I hope, aren't at all different from "black values." Family, love, decency, charity... are these so color-based that no one else can identify with them?

Furthermore, why are they committed to the "black community" and not to the entire community? There is a difference between working to help your community through a church and insisting that you will help only one segment of the community.

I appreciate that the African American community has had a rough couple of hundred years. But the solution to that is not to run and hide, to hole up in their communities and neglect the world around them. Quite the opposite! They need to be more visible. They need to have a strong work-ethic, whether it's a black ethic or not. They need to publicly celebrate their value system.

If they do, they'll find that we're all not that different.

Edit: Wait, this was about Obama, wasn't it? I can't believe that he would embrace this philosophy, and I hope that he can either explain it or repudiate it. If I am misinterpreting what they are saying, I would love to know. But on its face, it is parochial and off-putting.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by jsobecky
We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land,"

So .. America isn't their 'native land'?? They aren't Americans? They are Africans? Then what the hell are they doing living in America if they are not Americans first?

6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

What the heck is 'the black work ethic'?
What is wrong with middle class?
What is a black value system?

This seems to conflict with Obama's message of oneness and inclusion

This STRONGLY conflicts with what he has said. Completely opposite direction. Is this a case of saying in public what the public wants to hear, but following how you really feel when the public eye isn't on you? Or is it that he's just schmoooooozing the black population up there so they still think he's 'black enough'?? God only knows.

Here's a link to his public quotes - Obama Public Quotes

If a white politican of German ancestory went to a church that had as it's rule 'remain true to our native land' there would be an outcry about him being a Nazi. If a white politician had a church that promoted a 'white value system' ... HOLY GOD ABOVE he'd be crucified in the press.

Major conflict between public and private goings on.
Well ... he is a politician afterall.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by jsobecky
However, a closer look at this church reveals that it is strongly dedicated to Black values and traditions, and imparts political messages to it's members.

Well, Jsobecky, let's be honest, there's not going to be a single Democrat presidential candidate you'll like, except one that's unlikely to win. I don't intend that as an attack, but rather I know you well enough by now to say you're a rather conservative Republican, which is fine by me, but it does seem a tad hypocritical of a Republican to single out a church affiliation as a flaw, or to decry an organization that promotes the interests of black people, when again, let's be honest, the modern neo-conservative republican has been working for the white christian corporate interests for most, if not all, of Bush's administration. Again, please note the use of "modern" neo-con. We're all aware that Republicans freed the slaves, and that the Dem leader filibustered against school integration, but today's Republican has been a far different animal than their more noble ancestors.

Now, I personally don't endorse Obama or any other candidate yet, because I don't know enough about any of their foreign and domestic policies to know if they'll be a good leader for the country. I used to not care, I used to think the President was little more than a figurehead, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people felt that way, which is how we ended up electing Bush and finding out just how much power a president could wring out of the system. Who knows, maybe it had to happen to wake people up to the return of checks and balances in our government.

That aside, I don't have a problem with any candidates religion so long as they realize the "religion of their office" comes first. That is, they give the priorities in decision-making to the Constitution, and to defer to the interests of the voters.

As a mission for a church congregation, there are far worse things than being dedicated towards the advancement of people of color in a world controlled by the white man. If such a congregation has managed to produce an honest, up-front, black Presidential candidate who actually has a shot at winning, then I'd say that church is doing a damned fine job of accomplishing their task, and that they're a pretty successful model for other minority organizations to try and emulate.

I think it's fair to say Obama's religious affiliation is no more of a risk than any other candidates, because ultimately, as Bush has demonstrated to the nation, it's a really bad idea for the President to try and change the office to fit his feet, rather than try and fill the shoes of the office, and if it does influence his decisions...meh... there are far worse things than having someone in office who gives more than lip service to minorities.

Personally, though, until Obama proves otherwise, I will just consider him the byproduct of a church that performed it's mission statement VERY well, rather than trying to paint him as a bigot, as you seem to be attempting.

Wow
Just wow
First of all "christian" churches still follow the teachings of Christ right? Hense the name "christian". I can not find any teaching in which Christ favored one race over another. I think, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Christ taught people to look out for each other. You know the whole "love thy neighbor as thyself" thing. I don't think it was love thy neighbor as long as they are black,red,yellow,blue,purple...ect.

Secondly, if any presidential candidate was affiliated with in any way with racial discrimination it is important to know. Imho especially if it is under the guise of a church. Just because the church chooses to uplift one specific race instead of discrediting it makes it no less discriminatory.
I think it is great a church would seek to uplift people; I think it is disgusting that a church would openly preach to uplift a person based only on the color of their skin.

As a mission for a church congregation, there are far worse things than being dedicated towards the advancement of people of color in a world controlled by the white man.

Way to sidestep the issue! It is not "people of color"; it is ONLY black people.

If such a congregation has managed to produce an honest, up-front, black Presidential candidate who actually has a shot at winning, then I'd say that church is doing a damned fine job of accomplishing their task, and that they're a pretty successful model for other minority organizations to try and emulate.

Wow surprised to see you openly advicate organized discrimination. That is a pretty progressive stance...seems to work really well for the KKK. Those people have "churches" too you know. Only when those "churches" work to promote their agenda they are villified.

[edit on 8/2/2007 by shooterbrody]

[edit on 8/2/2007 by shooterbrody]

Originally posted by jsobecky
This seems to conflict with Obama's message of oneness and inclusion when he makes his speeches in front of the public.

Interesting... I don't care what kind of church he attends but it does seem to fly in the face of his inclusive message to the public in his speeches. I guess the challenge is to truly keep his religious affiliations separate from his public service role.

And frankly that would be really hard for me to do.

I wasn't going to vote for him anyway. I'll be eager to see if this gets much press and if it does, what effect it will have.

thelibra I'm no Republican and I don't really get that jsobecky was trying to paint Obama as a bigot, so much as a hypocrite. And I must agree.

Slightly off-topic... This thread brings to light something I've been noticing and thinking on lately. Something I call "The New Racism". It's about the blatant double standard practiced by some people in this country as regards racial treatment. I'm not afraid of it or anything, but I have noticed more and more that what's good for the goose-of-color isn't necessarily good for the white gander... Because FF, I agree. If a white politician had a church that professed to be "unashamedly white"... If you replaced the word "black" with the word "white" in the above list of concept... Oooohhh! Lordy!

"Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System" Oh My God!!! He'd be run out of the country on a rail! By whites and blacks alike!

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Damn, its a strange day when I have a totally different opinion on something like this. wow!

anyway, I dont see anything wrong with it. It is a church for the black community dedicated to the propserity and well being of the black community. I dont see it as being overtly racist, Im sure if I went and sat in a pew to listen to their preacher, Id be welcomed despite the fact that I am white. The only thing I think is a bit corney is the whole "middle-class" deal but whatever.

Id rather see this than jesse jackson or al sharpton screaming about something else.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you replaced the word "black" with the word "white" in the above list of concept... Oooohhh! Lordy!

Lets take a look at that, shall we? Hmmmm ..

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the White Community
3. Commitment to the White Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

Originally posted by thelibra
Well, Jsobecky, let's be honest, there's not going to be a single Democrat presidential candidate you'll like, except one that's unlikely to win. I don't intend that as an attack, but rather I know you well enough by now to say you're a rather conservative Republican, which is fine by me, but it does seem a tad hypocritical of a Republican to single out a church affiliation as a flaw, or to decry an organization that promotes the interests of black people, when again, let's be honest, the modern neo-conservative republican has been working for the white christian corporate interests for most, if not all, of Bush's administration. Again, please note the use of "modern" neo-con. We're all aware that Republicans freed the slaves, and that the Dem leader filibustered against school integration, but today's Republican has been a far different animal than their more noble ancestors.

I am not a conservative Republican and find grave problems with this church.

That aside, I don't have a problem with any candidates religion so long as they realize the "religion of their office" comes first. That is, they give the priorities in decision-making to the Constitution, and to defer to the interests of the voters.

This is an aspect of a larger delegate-trustee debate that political scientists often banter about. How much of themselves should they bring to the office? It's a complicated question because there are good reasons for someone doing what they think is right versus deferring to the electorate.

As a mission for a church congregation, there are far worse things than being dedicated towards the advancement of people of color in a world controlled by the white man.

Agreed. But isn't this beyond the pale? Working for the advancement of their community members is one thing. But the plain reading of this shows that they pursue that goal to the wholesale exclusion of others. That is the problem here.

Personally, though, until Obama proves otherwise, I will just consider him the byproduct of a church that performed it's mission statement VERY well, rather than trying to paint him as a bigot, as you seem to be attempting.

I'm not trying to paint him as anything. But I think it is a valid question why he would embrace what seems to be such a divisive philosophy.

[edit on 2/8/2007 by Togetic]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you replaced the word "black" with the word "white" in the above list of concept... Oooohhh! Lordy!

Lets take a look at that, shall we? Hmmmm ..

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the White Community
3. Commitment to the White Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

Looking at this, it is terrible. Yes, African Americans are at a severe disadvantage in our society. But first, is that really the case in today's America (it seems to be increasingly less so), and second, doesn't a philosophy like this lead to the perception of second-class citizenry and thereby dependence on poverty and powerlessness?

I sont think Obamas links to a black institution is the problem here, its because of the religous nature is why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. There is a real effort to abolish religion, especially ones of the abrahamic faiths, completely in the west. I think thats a grave mistake, it was also foretold in the prophecies.

Originally posted by Togetic
Looking at this, it is terrible.

YES it is. Isn't it!?!

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
There is a real effort to abolish religion, especially ones of the abrahamic faiths, completely in the west.

There doesn't seem to be much of a requirement to worship in this church. It does seem to be more of a social/political group with a religious name. Is that what you are getting at XphilesPhan???


[edit on 2/8/2007 by FlyersFan]

Sure I'd vote for someone from that church
then the next election I'll vote for a Klan member

really whats the difference in their style of teaching?

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Scrub]

There doesn't seem to be much of a requirement to worship in this church. It does seem to be more of a social/political group with a religious name. Is that what you are getting at XphilesPhan???


[edit on 2/8/2007 by FlyersFan]

Well, they certainly arent the only church with political influence. I was trying to say that I think people are upset about this for religous aspects, not because it is a church that works for the black community.

I don't have a problem with a leader and what church he goes to or doesn't go to. If that church and what it believes helps him connect spiritually then he has the right to attend that church.

Most white people in America are mutts. I am part German, Irish, Cherokee, Scottish, etc. I don't find it necessary to connect with like similar ethnicities. Our society is set up around and caters to 'white European muttness'

People that have a stronger ethnic connection like to hang with their own. Our society provides limited opportunities for this, church is one place that they can experience it.

I don't believe that means that Obama prefers his race over another. In fact, some Blacks are upset that he is surrounding himself with white people as his potential administration.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I sont think Obamas links to a black institution is the problem here, its because of the religous nature is why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. There is a real effort to abolish religion, especially ones of the abrahamic faiths, completely in the west. I think thats a grave mistake, it was also foretold in the prophecies.

This is not an assault against a church, in my opinion. It is an assault on a blatantly racist philosophy, one that hopefully most reasoned people know is not representative of Christianity.

A black man was taken to a black church within a black community as a child?

And this black church tailored its message to its black congregation?

Well I for one am pissed. How dare he attend a black church that is like most other black church in the country...

How dare that church acknowladge that they must keep their community strong and united...how dare they umm...how dare they...

Well look at that.

[edit on 2/8/0707 by spines]

Originally posted by spines
A black man was taken to a black church within a black community as a child?

And this black church tailored its message to its black congregation?

Well I for one am pissed. How dare he attend a black church that is like most other black church in the country...

How dare that church acknowladge that they must keep their community strong and united...how dare they umm...how dare they...

Well look at that.

[edit on 2/8/0707 by spines]

This is not a matter of them working to improve their community. This is an essential purpose of a church. But this doctrine doesn't even entertain integration with the larger community. That is what is offensive.

Originally posted by c3hamby
Our society is set up around and caters to 'white European muttness'

Man am I sick of hearing/reading that kind of crap. Yeah it WAS like that but I nor any family member of mine have never been given any free ride pal! I have worked my tail off my whole life only to be told I have everything handed to me. BULL**** I couldn't get into college cause my parents couldn't pay for it and I wasn't allowed help because "I'm white and I shouldn't need help to pay for college" meanwhile a black guy I really like (nothing against him at all) with the same grades as me in school gets all the help he asked for. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!

Sorry got off topic there for a min

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Scrub]

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Scrub]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I sont think Obamas links to a black institution is the problem here, its because of the religous nature is why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. There is a real effort to abolish religion, especially ones of the abrahamic faiths, completely in the west. I think thats a grave mistake, it was also foretold in the prophecies.

No, it's because it's another example of an elected official who says they're one thing, but their actions show them to be something else. We have words to describe that kind of behavior, and they're not considered to be nice. Hypocrisy and pandering come to mind immediately.

The other thing that's called into question by something like this is trust. You want to vote for someone that says they'll support and do the things you think are important. But if they can't be trusted to tell the truth on something this fundamental to their own lives, what exactly could you trust them on?

Poor obama. His handlers have him twisting in the wind now. In their rush to prove he isn't a 'closet muslim', they put out his church membership information. But, oops, they forgot to first check out whether his church was ready for prime time consumption.

For a man trying to project an image as the the leader of "the party that embraces everyone", too bad his own church turns out to be racist. Of course, the "church" he attended as a young boy isn't exactly known for its tolerance either. Could there be a pattern developing here?

[edit on 2/8/2007 by centurion1211]