Australian's comments on Subservience to the USA

www.news.com.au...

Its interesting that out of people who commented on there, an Australian who served on a ship in Timor made an interesting fact. Bill Clinton didn't want to help the Aussies out one bit until an advisor mentioned that Australia had supported every American war since WW1.

Looks like help only goes one when you deal with the American Military.

Scroll down to "Posted by: Bullwinkle Moose of Brisneyland" to see the comment.

[edit on 7-2-2007 by mazzroth]

I'm hoping that Labor pull through and hopefully under Rudd we might cut ties with the US a little and move out on our own. Associate more with South East Asia.

If we get a strong relationship with China now, it will benefit in the future, considering they are a long way on the road to becoming the next world superpower.

Originally posted by fooffstarr
I'm hoping that Labor pull through and hopefully under Rudd we might cut ties with the US a little and move out on our own. Associate more with South East Asia.

If we get a strong relationship with China now, it will benefit in the future, considering they are a long way on the road to becoming the next world superpower.

Correct, The Chinese ( been civilized for 4000+ years ) don't regularly invade coutries or threatend to Nuke. They eventually will be an Uber-Power financially and militarily and they bargain fairly on exports without the bullying tactics that we are accustomed with the US.

China and India are the future for us here in the rapidly shrinking world of Economic Unions and I guess we would geographically line up with Asia.

Originally posted by mazzroth


Correct, The Chinese ( been civilized for 4000+ years ) don't regularly invade coutries or threatend to Nuke. They eventually will be an Uber-Power financially and militarily and they bargain fairly on exports without the bullying tactics that we are accustomed with the US.

what kind of crap is this? Taiwan, Tibet, any of these places ring a bell? And who has the US threatened to nuke since WW2? Not only that, but guess what, the chinese purposely keep their currency low, wouldnt you say that is an unfair trade practice? And I wouldnt worry about clinton, he was a traitor, rather would help the chinese for some campaing contributions than an ally. I guess if australia gave money to the democratic party, they would of gotten help .

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

what kind of crap is this? Taiwan, Tibet, any of these places ring a bell? And who has the US threatened to nuke since WW2?

I think Taiwan is still a soveriegn country and there has been no attack or invasion, Tibet is another disputed zone but never the less its under pseudo Chinese control. Hong Kong was a colonial British Zone that it handed back to China peacefully.

As far as who was the US threatend to Nuke since WW2, well I guess Kennedy's speech on Cuba was just a myth and the ongoing Threats to Iran are also nothing. But seriously Xfilesfan can you state here and now that there hasn't been a single Depleted Uranium round fired since WW2 ? what other countries use them ?and do you buy the BS that they aren't radioactive ?

I think I deserve an apology for your uninformed nonsense mate it sounds like nationalistic blind garbage you replied with. With all due respect of course.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Correct, The Chinese ( been civilized for 4000+ years ) don't regularly invade coutries or threatend to Nuke. They eventually will be an Uber-Power financially and militarily and they bargain fairly on exports without the bullying tactics that we are accustomed with the US.

Tell that to Tibet, Taiwan, Vietnam. Power corrupts, doesn't matter who wields it.

Okay.. I understand the whole THINK AND ACT GLOBALLY THING.. However.. doesnt mean we should all be uniform across the globe with every damn thing.. I want Australian children to know about their history, I want Aussie kids to have a distinct identity. Everything is becoming US SUPERSIZED and COMMERCIALISED. It is becoming all about consumerism instead of about the land and family and community.. We are soooooooooooo OVER IT!! Wishing Johnny Howard would crawl out of the orrifice he is in and start banning some of the filthy Yankie sex selling barely clad film clips that are on our TV stations for our kids to view.. these superstar performers have body guards and houses with mega securtity.. its our kids on the street imitating the look and being raped. CMON HOWARD PULL YA FLIPPING FINGER OUT (of you know whose) AND THINK ABOUT WHO YOUR PUTTING AT RISK>. RzHole!

Originally posted by foxywhiskers
Wishing Johnny Howard would crawl out of the orrifice he is in and start banning some of the filthy Yankie sex selling barely clad film clips that are on our TV stations for our kids to view.. these superstar performers have body guards and houses with mega securtity.. its our kids on the street imitating the look and being raped.

If I remember correctly Howard was snubbed when he went to the US for a fair trading agreement.

He came back embarrassed,he went back again to see the Pres and thats when 9/11 happened,the Anzac treaty was implemented immediately,eventually he had talks about the agreement,the deal was for Australia to broadcast more US television,monkey see monkey do.

I dont have a problem with treaty's and agreements between our 2 countries if our govt makes decisions based on mutual benefit. I dont see us as being subservient but rather stuck in a comfortable relationship and only just starting to realise that it is mostly one sided.

Our current involvement in the middle east does not benefit us in the slightest. That may sound harsh but its the cold hard truth.
Closer relationships with China is a greater economic benefit to Australia than the US is going forward.
The tariffs and restrictions imposed on our exports by US markets far outweigh any benefits.
Asian markets are the key to our growth and continued development in the global economy whether we like it or not.
If the US has not recognised this yet they may find that under a different govt here that our loyalties may soon be changing due to economic and public opinion pressures, because guaranteed China and other Asian markets are keen for our resources and will offer greater rewards than the US is.

Money talks, BS walks.

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by mojo4sale
I dont have a problem with treaty's and agreements between our 2 countries if our govt makes decisions based on mutual benefit. I dont see us as being subservient but rather stuck in a comfortable relationship and only just starting to realise that it is mostly one sided.

I dont have a problem with treaty`s either,I do have a problem with feeling obligated to follow them into unjust wars that had nothing to do with 9/11 though.

Closer relationships with China is a greater economic benefit to Australia than the US is going forward.

I thought China was already our largest export country?

Today they were saying on the news,that there are people calling for the casement of coal exports to China because of global warming.Thats one I can agree with.

The tariffs and restrictions imposed on our exports by US markets far outweigh any benefits.
Asian markets are the key to our growth and continued development in the global economy whether we like it or not.

You betcha,I agree

If the US has not recognised this yet they may find that under a different govt here that our loyalties may soon be changing due to economic and public opinion pressures, because guaranteed China and other Asian markets are keen for our resources and will offer greater rewards than the US is.

I cant see changing governments will sway the public to support an Asian country over the US though,No matter who is in Gov,that Gov will follow the US.Maybe thats also why we had to broadcast more US programs to pull public oppinion.

Same will be for the UK.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by gps777]

I wonder how hard it would be to actually democratically turn away from the USA ? Gough Whitlam tried and the CIA got him outed, look at Latham and see when his popularity turned..soon as he mentioned that Pine Gap should be a joint facility.

Im telling anyone prepared to listen the USA (Gov. - not citizens) has for years interfered with our country and it has been swept under the carpet as a conspiracy.

Don't anyone take this as an Anti-US rant because its supposed to be Anti-US-Government, blind freddy knows the civilians are fed lies through the media. The real state of the relationship can be seen with the Hicks issue and his denial of rights to a fair trial. I wonder how quickly it would take the US government to send in a strike team if the role had reversed?.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by mazzroth]

G'day all,

I beleive that the US - Australian alliance is important and no matter what differences we may have along the way, both politically, economically and/or strategically, when the # hits the fan we need to support each other.

Having said that, It #s me to tears the amount of American crap that is getting air time on our televisions and our radios - shows with people who have no talent what so ever but are famous setting stupid examples for our niave youngsters to aspire to.

Yank TV cant say the word # on air, but they can sure as hell show somebody getting chopped up, dumped in the boot of a car (thats trunk for you yanks) and buried somewhere in the desert. All the violence you could ever want, not to mention the sex, mate! whats with your music videos and all those whores pretending to sing? And those drug dealing "homies" who can barely hold a single note, rapping nonsense about how pathetic their lives are.

We are constantly subjected to this because US corporations want to flood our market to make an extra dollar, to the detriment of Australian society, culture, values and morals.

We need to cut these aspects of American culture out of Australia - its NOT needed. We have our own culture, values and history and we do not need to be dictated to by the dumb ass school yard bully, we got way more brains than that.

In regards to looking towards China and Asia, I dont fully agree with the previous comments - we should trade with them but that is it and that should be done at arms length. We have to be careful of them, business and that is it. They have shown that many of them cannot be trusted and their governments are corrupt and unstable.

What is in Australia's best interest? Like it or not, I beleive Australia should get its nose out of other countries backyards and worry about our own home soil, our own borders. We need to raise the tarrifs on imported products to deter purchase of them whilst lowering taxes and supporting indutry that produces the same product here, and if no one does, than a tax incentive should be given to the company that does start to make it. Why import goods when we have the no how to make it here?

We need to stop taking in so many refugees for not only our economy but our country itself cannot sustain a larger population, regardless of what others say, we are running out of water as it is and our farms are drying out and closing.

As a nation we need to work on social cohesion and in bridging the gap between rich and poor, for this will make many more people happy and better off. Remove the notion of negative gearing - it will not only save the government money to put back into health and education but will slow down the rich from over investing in the housing market and giving first home buyers a chance rather than renting.

We need to introduce military service to all straight after Year12 of school. It will instigate national pride, morals, and especially respect, something that the youth of today have very little off.

Australia has the opportunity to become the richest, smartest, healthiest, happiest, socially cohesive society in the world. We can and should be setting an example to the world on how to run, develop and grow a nation properly if only our government took their focus one step back from the almighty dollar and actually thought about what is best for the people and how to make their live better.

AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE - OI ! OI ! OI !

Awesome post Melbourne_Militia, we punch way above our weight when it comes to most things except military and machines of war. Everything you said was pretty well spot on, I dont want my kids listening to that music were the artist condones killing cops or busting a cap in someones a#$. Lets be honest that is "out of the caves crap".

Correct, The Chinese ( been civilized for 4000+ years ) don't regularly invade coutries or threatend to Nuke. They eventually will be an Uber-Power financially and militarily and they bargain fairly on exports without the bullying tactics that we are accustomed with the US.

I see dumb people...


Australia is a very Americanised country, we have so much in common politically, economically, socially. While it's true that we need to maintain a good relationship with China, we would be pretty stupid not to maintain a strong relationship with the US.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Cthulwho]

The Chinese don't give 2 shakes of a lamb's tail about Aussie's or anybody else on your side of the world. They want what resources you guys will provide cheaply to them to arm and equip their version of the global police state. Both Australia and Canada stayed tied too long with the UK for their own good and suffer from a bad case of Euro-Socialism. I only know a few Aussie's personally who've emigrated to the US. Without exception, the one's who left as adults, all did it for the same reason: economics. Like the UK, there's damn little room to move up in economic status because the bulk of the wealth is controlled by an elite who have held back economic development. Even as badly as we're taxed in the US, out tax burden is probably 50% of what Aussie's pay.
As far as culture is concerned, there's on magic button on the telly/radio called the off switch. I've never understood the hue and cry in the UK and other English speaking countries about American dominance of the entertainment airwaves. We get many BBC, Canadian and other English speaking countries's TV programs here in the US. Almost all Fox TV shows here shown in the US are actually produced in Canada not the US. With modern electronics, you can block any program you don't want your kids to see. I find it so ironic that any Aussie would complain about having their culture ruined by the Americans after their annihilation of the Aborigine culture which was more that 40,000 year old when the English invaders arrived in the 1800's.

Well just for all the John Howard bashers out there. A few facts :

1. Australia has a Free Trade Agreement with teh US
   
2. Ausralia is about to sign a Free Trade Agreement with CHina
   
   

Now, for the people who think we are under the US thumb. A few months ago we signed a deal to supply CHina with Uranium, a move that was strongly objected to by the US, yet JH still went through with it.
China doesn't see Australia as a threat and every Chinese person I've spoken to here, does not associate Australia with the US.

China is already Australia’s second-largest merchandise export market and our goods exports grew by more than 39 per cent in 2005-06 to $18.1 billion.

Our services exports to China grew by more than 13 per cent in 2005-06 making China our fourth largest services market.

China is now Australia’s second-largest trading partner overall.

www.dfat.gov.au...

JH has allowed us to find our feet and regain some respect in Asia, especially after LAbour's policy of appeasement especially towards Indonesia. We are in a unique postion of being friends with todays' current superpower and a future superpower.

Originally posted by crgintx
I find it so ironic that any Aussie would complain about having their culture ruined by the Americans after their annihilation of the Aborigine culture which was more that 40,000 year old when the English invaders arrived in the 1800's.

LOL it wasn't annihilated and still exists today. I believe it was the yanks who annihilated the Indian culture, though a series of planned massacres over the decades.

ED. sp

[edit on 8-2-2007 by rogue1]

Originally posted by crgintx
I find it so ironic that any Aussie would complain about having their culture ruined by the Americans after their annihilation of the Aborigine culture which was more that 40,000 year old when the English invaders arrived in the 1800's.

I find it even more ironic that you would say this, your human rights record is no better than ours and probably worse in some cases.

Ahh Rogue 1 beat me to it.

Originally posted by mazzroth
www.news.com.au...

Its interesting that out of people who commented on there, an Australian who served on a ship in Timor made an interesting fact. Bill Clinton didn't want to help the Aussies out one bit until an advisor mentioned that Australia had supported every American war since WW1.

Looks like help only goes one when you deal with the American Military.

Scroll down to "Posted by: Bullwinkle Moose of Brisneyland" to see the comment.

[edit on 7-2-2007 by mazzroth]

20 million people approx. in Oz, The following exerpt illustrates the dangers inherent in delusions of independence from the major powers.

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk...

www.tbrnews.org...

" ........Having said that as background, let us consider the deadly Bali bombing on October 12, 2002. The blast was centered in a nightclub area known to be heavily frequented by Australians. The damage was tremendous with at least 400 being killed."

cont. " This was stated in the media, from official announcements, to be a terrorist attack by an Indonesian group with links to Al Queada but this, according to the file, is not correct, although a number of locals were promptly arrested, tried and convicted for this. (Convictions were eventually overturned by the Indonesian high court) "

cont. " In fact, this atrocity has strong parallels with the 9/11 attacks according to the contents of the CIA files. It seems that President Bush requested the Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, to “volunteer” Australian troops for his forthcoming attack on Iraq, five months in the future. Howard responded that while he was willing, support for the U.S. attack was badly lacking among the Australians and he anticipated problems with his government in such a project. "

cont. " Bush does not like to be crossed and when the Prime Minister said that public support of the U.S. position was weak, he said that …”maybe your people should realize that terrorism knows no borders and I would hope that these crazies don’t attack you.” Howard replied, according to the transcripts of the conversation, that in the case of a perceived Muslim attack on Australians, he would certainly have the full support of his Australians. "

cont. " What happened next is thoroughly documented. Bush spoke with Tenet who was fully aware of the background of the 9/11 attacks. The CIA and the Mossad have very good and very close relations and the CIA was fully aware of the penetration of the Atta group in Hollywood, Florida and the preparations for the attacks. A discussion was held in Langley between Tenet and a top Mossad official (name withheld at this time) and assurances were given that “something certainly can be done to help out here.”

cont. " The resulting attack was the second one planned. The first consisted of placing a special explosive device (see the Harring account) in an Australian public building. Fortunately for the population of Sydney, it failed to go off and is still in place. Perhaps Sydney opera lovers should make sure their insurance policies are up to date.

The second one went off in October in an area where many Australians were known to visit and the results are well known (Bali). "

cont. " Australia did, indeed, join the Coalition, but now the pupulation strongly regretting it and suspicious of foul play are beginning to surface. The Romans had a saying, “Truth crushed to earth will rise again.”

cont. " To quote from an official memo, George W. Bush referred to the reluctant Aussies as “a bunch of ex-con kangaroo humpers.”

cont. " Having read over a draft, Mr. Harring’s article, complete with pictures, documents and plans, is well worth the read. And be sure to remember the Ambassador’s tapes! Where are they now that we need them? ”

cont. " Another coup for Finnegan was the discovery that a private aircraft, later discovered to have belonged to an Israeli registered company, took off, without clearance, from the local airport, bound for Singapore. Witnesses said that “at least six men” got onto the plane with a good deal of luggage and boxes.” Finnegan’s team of investigators managed to obtain two flight logs which are reproduced here along with a report by one of his staff ...."

www.tbrnews.org...

No real surprises for those with the guts to see.

As someone who's at least one quarter Native American, I can speak with all the irony I want. The Euro's invaded both North America and Australia and started ethnic cleansing campaigns against the locals as soon as they arrived. I will grant you that the original inhabitants of Australia's population has rebounded much better than has North Americans. No gov't in the world has a good human rights record even though some may pretend to have one. As a Libertarian, I'm not interested in politics per se because I want to greatly reduce the role of gov't in everyone's lives not just mine. Current govt's whether local,regional or national are controlled by politicians who aren't interested in solving problems. Elected politicians are interested in retaining power and many like the current federal regime here in Washington,DC, USA created a threat to justify them transferring billions of US Dollars into the coffers of huge multinational corporations whose rammed free trade agreements down the throats of the working class citizens and subjects around the world.

There's no such thing as "free trade" except for those who control the wealth.