Compulsory to speak English - Discuss

Indeed, doubt the government will take much notice though.

We request that as soon as practically possible the UK closes its borders to economic migrants unless strict criteria are met. These criteria should be as follows:

1) Working knowledge of the English language enforced by a test.

2) Inability to access any kind of benefits funded by the taxpayer (e.g. NHS, social security) unless in full time employment or having previously been in full time employment for a period of 12 months or longer.

3) Any immigrant convicted of criminal activity should be immediately deported rather than imprisoned in the United Kingdom.

Sounds good to me, especially points 2+3...

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
Wasting £4.5m on people who have come to my country, claim benefit and can not be bothered to learn English.

Wait...

They can not be bothered? How exactly do you know they can't be bothered? It doesn't say they can't be bothered on the article. Nice way to place something into the arguement that wasn't there in the first place. EVer though it might be because free English classes are rare? Let alone ones which can be done in the evenings - the nearest one to where I live in 40minutes away and would cost roughly £12 a week using public transport to get to and from...

Just goes to prove my point. Finding reasons not to learn English. No free lessons, not close enough and it will cost me money. Again, If you come to my country, you learn English. If this costs you money, that's part of wanting to become British. And why should I have to pay for free English lessons?

Logic does escape some people.

Why do people move to this country? Well, many immigrants can barely get a job that allows them to survive in their own Nation. Thus they come here - this means what? They have very little money.

So then, we expect them to pay to learn English? Or to get a job in the United Kingdom without knowing English? Without any money or the ability to speak the language properly. Yes, they can use magic. I am glad.

Fact is, immigrants will come over here illegally or legally. If we offer free English classes we help to introduce them to work. This means what? They legally earn money, we are able to tax them and they do not commit crime.

Originally posted by Odium
Why do people move to this country? Well, many immigrants can barely get a job that allows them to survive in their own Nation. Thus they come here.

So basically, their country isn't good enough so they come to leech off of ours.

Well maybe their own nation should take care of their citizens and spend their own money on finding them jobs instead of us having to do it.

"oh no, the poor immigrants don't know English! We should spend our money on them to teach them English and give them a house, even though many of our home-born citizens live on the street!"

Yeah or we could just stop being a bunch of pussies and tighten our borders.

I think this is a very important topic (Flagged!)

The belief that everyone in this country is, in my opinion, completely justified. Mainly because of principle... if I moved to China or Pakistan or Russia, I would learn to speak Chinese, Urdu or Russian. IF you plan on living somewhere it is just basic common sense to learn the native language.

Fair enough, some people holiday here, and I don't think they should learn English. When I go to Spain, I learn a few phrases (Where is the bar?) and I'm done. But if I decided to move to Spain I wouldn't expect every member of society to cater to my whims because I didn't have the basic common sense to learn the language of my new home.

And lets not forget all the political reasons. If millions are being spent on multilingual leaflets, how much is being spent paying those call centre operatives who are employed to only speak another language? How much environmental damage does each leaflet cause? Tree's are felled, leaflets mass produced and then after being read once are thrown into the street.
We spend absurd sums of money on making people who are too lazy to learn another language comfortable, when the entire country is dominated by ASBO's, when the elderly given a ridiculous pension and when families live in constant fear that one of their children won't come home from school.

Malganis, you can't just expect countries to reform overnight. Many of them are in political breakdown and it affects the society as a whole.
I agree that immigrants who commit a crime should be immediately deported, and also that English should be taught to them as a matter of course.

[edit on 25/2/07 by JackofBlades]

I know other countries aren't going to reform and be able to take care of their citizens overnight. But it shouldn't mean that our country has to go down the pan as a result.

As you said, the money would be much better spent on tackling youth crime, pensions, NHS, etc

Charity starts at home, and we have enough problems to spend the money on rather than immigrants.

Malganis, I assume you never had the best education? Now England, Scotland and Wales are what is known as an Island – it means our borders are pretty tight. The sea does the job for us. I suppose we could build a really high wall to keep out the pesky flying immigrants that ruin our society. Yes that’d be a good idea – damn flying immigrants.

Now seriously, have you ever been to Africa, Asia the Middle East? Many of these Nations are so petty and filled with in fighting they care not for what happens to their people. Furthermore the people have no way to take care of themselves, tribal warlords who create nothing more than a contemporary serfdom govern the land and they might as well be slaves. Nobody on this thread has displayed that these people do not desire to learn English and thus the burden of proof is in your hands – you are the ones trying to make them guilty of an act without any evidence.

After all are we not a society built on the premise of “Innocent until proven guilty”? Last I checked and went into work we were.

Also you neglect the fact immigration will happen, people will always move over here legally or illegally and refusing to help them will only mean they end up committing criminal acts. Crime is directly proportional to socio-economic problems in many instances and allowing free English classes (which would cost next to nothing) can help to reduce their need to commit criminal acts, help them find work and in turn help them pay tax to our Government – paying us back for helping them learn English.

Everyone would rather the NHS had more money, schools had more money and so on and so fourth but the fact is things are not that simple. Placing your head in the sand and screaming “Immigrants go away” will not solve the issue. But helping them so they can work in this society, find jobs and give back to society helps us all.

Fact is, teaching them English can result in not needing to print the leaflets and in turn save money.

Edit: To correct typo

[edit on 26/2/2007 by Odium]

Originally posted by Odium
Malganis, I assume you never had the best education? Now England, Scotland and Wales are what is known as an Ireland –

Well firstly, i've been through the whole school system and am studying for a degree, so i'd say that i've had a good education. But still, they don't teach you the politics of borders and immigration in school do they, so it's not really relevant.

They do teach geography though, and I always thought that Ireland was actually a country of it's own, not a combination of others.

Anyway, the flow of legal immigration could be stemmed by reducing the numbers of immigrants we let in over time or requiring some sort of citizenship exam. And if they are prosecuted for a serious crime they should be sent to a prison in their native country, not fill up our already stretched prisons.

As for illegal immigrants, I know it sounds bad but a lot of other countries use deportation to effectively reduce the numbers of illegals. Maybe that's something we could consider.

And asylum seekers, well... as I said before, we have a lot of our own problems on our doorstep that we could be spending the money on. Turning people away isn't nice, but neither is letting 15 year olds run around trashing the place because they're bored, or having to wait a year for an operation in a dodgy hospital.

Originally posted by malganis
Anyway, the flow of legal immigration could be stemmed by reducing the numbers of immigrants we let in over time or requiring some sort of citizenship exam. And if they are prosecuted for a serious crime they should be sent to a prison in their native country, not fill up our already stretched prisons.

Which would do what? Mean less legal immigrants and more illegal.

Originally posted by malganis
As for illegal immigrants, I know it sounds bad but a lot of other countries use deportation to effectively reduce the numbers of illegals. Maybe that's something we could consider.

We do deport them.

Name one Nation which has removed illegal immigration and is seen as a desired Nation to move to through this policy.

Originally posted by malganis
And asylum seekers, well... as I said before, we have a lot of our own problems on our doorstep that we could be spending the money on. Turning people away isn't nice, but neither is letting 15 year olds run around trashing the place because they're bored, or having to wait a year for an operation in a dodgy hospital.

They'd just come here as illegal immigrants if we stopped asylum seekers.

The UK isn't just England..and you are a part of the European Union are you not.

I live in America and think people should be FORCED in school to at least learn 2 other languages. It for their own good. I wish Spanish and French or Chinese had been forced on me. I would like to know what they say.

Originally posted by Royal76
The UK isn't just England..and you are a part of the European Union are you not.

I live in America and think people should be FORCED in school to at least learn 2 other languages. It for their own good. I wish Spanish and French or Chinese had been forced on me. I would like to know what they say.

One one side, I agree with Royal, I wish I had be able to learn another language at school. And not just in secondary school (aged 11 plus/High School).

But what need for there for most nature English speakers to learning another language. We can go to most countries and know, and worst expect people to speak English

And English is the language of business, Air Traffice Control, Sea Traffic Control and all databases are programmed in English.

I work for a Dutch company with offices in 40 countries and the common language is English.

The joke goes:

If you can speak three languages, you are tri-lingual
If you can speak two languages, you are bi-lingual
If you can speak one language, you are English or American

Actually, I know they start kids learning French in primary school these days and at secondary school I learnt both French and German (although German was only offered for the brighter kids... I believe that's changed now). Apparently the school I went to also offer Spanish not, and I'm sure a lot of you saw the plans to introduce Mandarin Chinese. Things have changed a lot, and are continuing to do so at a pretty fast pace.

People coming to this country should pass an english exam, for at least basic english. Maybe if your seeking asylum it might be differen't, but you should be seen to at least make an effort to learn the language. I think it's disgusting the amount of people that I come across on a day to day basis who are employed in yet cannot speak english. Bus drivers are a very good example of this, also my mother is a trainer at a wearhouse and more than once she has had to try and train polish people who couldn't speak english. It's a health and saftey risk if nothing else!