They're Back: Phoenix Lights!

If the military or government wants us to believe the Phoenix Lights were parachute flares, why not set up a demonstration and show us?

I'm pretty sure they can't duplicate the lights with what we had in inventory then or now....

Anyone who believes that the 1997 case was nothing but flares needs to watch the documentary "Out of the blue". There are several witnesses who saw an enormous, SOLID V-wing craft float right over the city that night, and one eye-witness even watched military jets give chase to 2 smaller objects which left them in the dust.

There may have been flares dropped, but there was a heck of a lot more going on than just that.

I think the military knows exactly what it is doing. They are planting doubt and they are timing it perfectly. They are probably sitting back with arms folded over there chest and laughing.

I don't think they like the fact that the UFO sightings are getting TV time like it has lately.

Makes me want to watch the skies more and go nowhere unless I have my camera with me.

Two can play this came military/civilians and we can win.

i seen an amazing documentry about the phoenix lights a few years ago.

They filmed during the day from the same location then overlayed the day footage with the original night time "lights" footage. Its 100% clear they were flares dropping behind the mountains.

as for the other sighting of a huge triangular shaped craft were these claims made before or after the flares being dropped? also the poeple claiming to have seen this huge craft fly slowly over them not a single person took a photo.....

but in any case those lights were flares no doubt about it.


[edit on 7-2-2007 by yeti101]

Maybe not flares dropping



in more than one instance, i've stood outside and watched an unexpected 'light' in the sky,
at twilight time just before its dark enough to see the stars.
Knowing that Venus was visible in another area of the sky
is what compelled me to stay focused on this 'light' for a good ammount of time.

know what, the 'light' turned out to be an approaching aircraft,
my position and the aircrafts' unusally bright & focused 'headlight'
which i was able to see (and judge as a possible UFO) happened
to be aligned in just the proper way to create this effect.

now, what about the military having some A-10s on exercises
go ahead and vector towards downtown Phoenix, throddle down
to the A-10s anti-tank 'creeping' speed, turn on their auxillery
megabright spotlight ? a string of gliding A-10s, from a 10s of miles
distance might instill an image of the formation being a 'V' formation

....it could also explain the seeming stationary appearance of 'lights'
that weren't falling as flares-on-parachutes would do,
it would also account for one 'light' going out but another popping up
in relation to the formation.



Oh! you say... the military wouldn't do such elaborate tricks.
i counter that the 'Brass' is out of the loop, and the formation is hatched
as a prank & a salute by a bunch of happy go lucky, end of the exercise, tired & giddy pilots
with the blessings of their flight tower control, of the ad-hoc mission ending

only from accidental sighting and publicity by the civilians in Phoenix
would this group of airmen know that their 'in-good-fun' prank, was successful


Salute, to youse guys, If that's what happened....
& i hope you'll do another maneuver, if the opportunity presents itself,
on the 13 March date itself



just another view

how can flares on parachutes hold a linear formation when they are affected by weather patterns and winds?

Good work FOX for the great 'news' story.

I saw that documentary. It was an extremely effective and convincing demonstration of what happened. I've looked for it on the web and have been unable to find it. But I think it would resolve a lot of people's questions.

Unfortunately, there are people that will believe only what they want to believe, no matter how convincing the evidence to the contrary.

[edit on 102828p://333 by Casino2112]

The documentary yeti101 mentioned is the one I'm referring to.

That's it, keep trying to hide the truth from everybody. Keep telling us we need to be rational. Some people know with certainty we aren't alone in the universe.

Troy

Since when do flares ignore gravity, holding position, do not fall to ground at all...and where are the planes that dropped them?

c'mon this is the same bad debunking like in 1997.

Yet, they're still using the same excuse. Nothing has changed.

So they tried to explain it away as flares, even though the lights in Phoenix were actually flying forward? Many people reported the lights flying over their homes, not descending to earth as a flare would do. Sounds like the American media trying to give their usual simple disinformation. Here in Saudi Arabia we are getting more sightings of late, including recently a group of lights that played cat and mouse with a fighter plane.

these lights do not behave as flares would behave, that high up there would be wind, which would prevent the "flares' from staying in such a configuration. though you could reason out they would all keep the same hieght, they would not have kept the same distance between them.

Originally posted by Bakram
Here in Saudi Arabia we are getting more sightings of late, including recently a group of lights that played cat and mouse with a fighter plane.

Sounds interesting. Can you provide us eventually with some pictures? If so then i suggest, that you open a new thread for those pictures and share them with us

Originally posted by cybertroy
That's it, keep trying to hide the truth from everybody.

That statement in itself, is irrational. Offering an explanation is not necessarily an attempt to 'hide the truth'. You can decide to believe whatever 'truth' you prefer. But to be rational, you must have some degree of intelligence, a sense of logic and the ability to reason with objectivity.

im confused...why do they need to light the bombing area up for a bombing exersize. I thought the airforce used night vision(infared).I also relized if they are on a bombing run...you dont drop flares until you are pulling up out of the bombing run; they said the flares were at aprox. 13-16,000 ft.????? just does not make sense.I call BS on the cover story and military explanation.

Even if they were using to light up the bombing area why drop the flares so high...i would think that is to high to light up a significant ground area.

I'm actually a bit surprised that no military folks like me have spoken up yet.

Although I also believe there are others in the Universe, that does not mean these were UFOs - there is no correlation.

There were two distinct and separate PHX sightings in '97. One was a series of flares, the other remains unexplained (and may even have had the flare launching as a cover/diversion).

This current sighting fits the flare hypothesis very well. I've shot these flares while in the military many times. They only APPEAR to be motionless to a distant observer - they are actually floating downward a very slow rate. Usually they are not launched in windy/adverse weather conditions, and for those who have been to PHX, or any open desert area, know that the air is extremely calm, especially at dawn and dusk (which is when these operations take place - and also when recreational balloonists take to the air for the same reason).

From the video clip, my guess is that the helicopter was at least 10 miles away from the drop. The helicopter was over a populated area - the flares were not. The reason the military uses flares is to illuminate a target area to facilitate MULTIPLE attack methods. Yes, various other devices and 'eyes' are also used (night vision, IR, etc). But not all weapons systems use night vision or other sensing instruments efficiently. Also, there is usually a combination used so that various forces can take advantage of the added visibility - not just the attacking aircraft, but also ground troops, intel/recon, and, especially, 'fire direction center' personnel - whose job it is to use the 5-7 minutes of 'artificial daylight' to pinpoint and plot enemy positions, strategic targets, friend/foe determinations, asset inventory, and access/egress locations.

The flares are launched as a pre-determined “set” # of 3, 5, 10 – how ever many are needed to illuminate the battlefield. They are commonly used in nighttime, unlit areas, but also, during wartime, in populated areas, in inclement weather/poor visibility conditions, and in mountain/canyon areas. Vietnam and Iraq both used flares extensively, and Israel and other Mideast combatants use flares extensively when the enemy ‘goes dark’ to avoid being seen.

There are many types of flares (even invisible infra-red ones). They are dropped from 1,000 to 5,000 feet or more and can be set to ignite and stay lit for various periods.

The one in the PHX case is probably an LUU-2B. The LUU is a common low-grade flare - ~2million candlepower/~5 minute burn time/~2m p sec. descent rate:



Here are a few images of flares in action:







So - to avoid any repercussions from the 'can't-be-anything-but-a-UFO' crowd - let me finally add in closing that I believe in UFOs, I believe there are UFO conspiracies, etc. - I'm ON YOUR SIDE. It's just that I don't believe this is one of those instances and it seems, many here, with no empirical knowledge, were drawing false conclusions not based on the facts...

Thanks for the post and interest - keep looking up!

[edit on 2/7/2007 by Outrageo]

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Please read this link-ATTN: Image Size Guidelines

[edit on 7-2-2007 by sanctum]

Wow! If there is anything that convinces me that the Phoenix lights were NOT flares it's those pictures just posted by Outrageo. What a big difference between flares and the ufos. The flares are unevenly distributed and they leave a thick trail of smoke behind them that is clearly lit up by the flares.

The ufos display none of those characteristics. They were in a precise formation..as precise as any military plane formation...and the ufos had no smoke trails of any kind. After looking at Outrageo's photos I realize that it's almost as ridiculous to suggest that the Phoenix lights were flares as it would be to claim they are swamp gas! That's really what it amounts to -- the ol' swamp gas trick has returned.

What needs to be found out is, was there anyone that saw this more closely??, and maybe some pic's/video..

Hopefully we will get some reports from a eyewitness or 2..

Flares from 13-16,000 ft..not a military guy, but it does seem awful high..These must be solar flares then

The photos were merely presented as examples of flares photographed directly underneath or near the observer, photographed from a stationary location on the ground.

They have absolutely no comparison, visually, to flares observed from another aircraft, in motion, at altitude, from a great distance (at least 10 miles).

Again, if you have not seen these first hand, you wouldn't know. You can only see the smoke from the flares when you are very close to them - it's impossible to see the smoke (or much else other than the flare itself) from a distance of several miles. Such as:



Finally, flares sets can be launched in many configurations - singly, in pairs, or in groups. If launched in groups they can be released (or set to ignite) sequentially in order to prolong the total illumination time. They can also be released to ignite simultaneously and as they are dropped semi-automatically, at precise intervals, when ignited appear as continuous, evenly spaced string of lights in the sky - exactly like the PHX lights. I've seen this myself many. many times in training and on the battlefield.

No swamp gas, no controversy, probably no UFO (in this instance).

I'm sorry to disappoint you - but I'm speaking from direct, empirical, repeated experience of precisely this phenomena. What've you got?

Signing off...

[edit on 2/7/2007 by Outrageo]