Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'

Originally posted by Griff
As far as your beliefs that is.

As far as God is concerned.....

Hey Griff, I was thinking.....

Maybe Rock was never really gay, maybe it's almost the opposite of the whole Haggard case. Maybe Rock just proclaims that he was gay and has been saved so he sounds more righteous. It's his whole schtick. One day he'll write a book about it and make lots of money.

After all, this is a conspiracy site and there hasn't been much talk of conspiracy in this thread, just ignorance.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
You still don't understand what I'm writing and I think you're presenting yourself with a very limited and ignorant knowledge of the Bible.

You don't understand. You love your sin.
You have interpreted scripture to excuse your sin. This is wrong.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I'm not going to debate with you anymore, you've managed to get yourself so far into denial you can't even see it. You responses to me hardly make any sense.

Can't handle the guilty feelings, huh?
I'm not in denial anymore. When I was actively gay I was in denial.
My responses don't make sense to you because you love your sin and you're offended by the Truth.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
As for your quote from Romans I think you should read this, it address the passage you quoted (thanks to Ex for the link, you rock!)

Gee, thank you for sending me to a gay site with a biased view of scripture.
I knew before I clicked it that it was going to take me to a pro gay site.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
There are but a handful of passages that actually deal with homosexuality and even those are generally mistranslated and twisted to deal with homosexuality.

Clearly by homosexuals defending their sinful lifestyles. You guys love to twist and mistranslate because again....you love your sin and have no intention of letting it go.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
You're limiting yourself and your own salvation and it will only lead to unhappiness.

My limiting myself to earthly sin and "what you call happiness" will only lead to eternal salvation. Are you telling me that if you were not allowed to live out your homosexual desires that you would be unhappy? Is being a sexually active homosexual the only thing that brings you true happiness? That is sad.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
But nothing I say is going to get you off of your self deluded high horse and you will continue to tell me I'm going to hell for being the way God made me. You're continuing to fuel the fires of hate and support the persecution of your own people.

As a Christian I cannot judge your salvation, but I can warn you of the direction you are headed. The bible says homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. What do you not understand about this? Go ahead, twist away. Spin, spin, spin.

I am a child of God, the homosexuals are not "my people" anymore. I woke up, rubbed the sleep out of my eyes.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
The blood of all homosexuals beaten and killed for being who they are is on your hands

I don't condone violence so you're totally off here.
You sound like a black man blaming the white man.
Nice try though.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Maybe Rock was never really gay.....

Sadly you are wrong again.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by rocknroll]

Originally posted by rocknroll
As a Christian I cannot judge your salvation, but I can warn you of the direction you are headed. The bible says homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. What do you not understand about this? Go ahead, twist away. Spin, spin, spin..

of course you judge people you have been doing it all along on this thread.

FlyersFan,

You can keep your ... that's pathetic. Go back and reread the entire thread. You'll see that I don't suffer from breast cancer, or pediatric diabeties or any of the other diseases that I said the AIDs research money could be better spent on. Read the damn thread before you open mouth and insert foot.

I personally think you suffer from something much worse.
Maybe they will find a cure for ignorance!!

he/she stated that even if their only daughter contracted AIDS they'd still say it was her fault. I'm a girl. And yes, if my daughter engaged in dangerous and risky behaviors and caught HIV it would definately be her fault. Who else would be to blame? No one but her. And YOU shouldn't have to pay for her mistakes. And by paying for her mistakes, that takes away from other places that the money should be spent.

Sad...Very Sad!!

Originally posted by grover
of course you judge people you have been doing it all along on this thread.

I have saved this paragraph for your line of thinking:
When someone wrongly judges me for my beliefs involving God and wrongly tells me that i am proud and "judgmental", and that i should conform to his preferred mode of preaching, i must say, No and Never, i will always obey God rather than man. If my words bother you, then let them turn you to the Truth. Christ was crucified because they did not want to hear him either, but wished that he was less "judgmental" as you say.

Sorry, I don't mean to come off judgemental, seriously.
I just want gay men to know that you can find peace and contentment in celibacy. It's not what you think it is. You were a virgin at one point, right? You survived your virgin lifestyle, right? LOL.

Not trying to piss anyone off, sorry.
Just giving my point of view.
Peace people.



[edit on 9-2-2007 by rocknroll]

No... you are being judgmental and attribute it to your faith... I repeat YOU are the one being judgmental. In case you missed it:

You don’t have to be gay in order to sympathize with them over the prejudice and hatred that they face, or for any other discriminated against minority for that matter. Just a modicum of charity and simple human decency will do.
The amount of abuse that gays receive, just for being what they are, both as children, and as adults is terrible. I have witnessed it first hand and nobody should have to go through that.
The depression and suicide rates among gay teens are appalling. I knew a boy who blew his brains out after his good church going parents disowned him for being gay.
My late wife and I gave refuge to a young man after his parents threw him out because he was gay. Afterwards, I made sure my stepsons clearly understood that there was no difference between them being picked on because they were black and Chinese; and somebody else being harassed because they were gay. Both are wrong.
A former coworkers fundamentalist parents, refused to have anything to do with him after he announced that he was gay, even unto death. They wouldn’t even consent to his burial, and his grieving lover had to go to court for permission to lay him to rest.
I don’t care what church you go to, such behavior is mean spirited and hateful. And, no amount of Bible thumping will change that. The Bible has been used to justify many things, not all of them good, just or moral. Remember slavery?
Jesus enjoined us to love one another, to “do unto others, as you would have them do unto you”.
Jesus taught us to “judge not lest we be judged”.
Jesus urged us to be more concerned about the beam in our own eye than the mote in our neighbors.
Jesus told us to “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. And yes he told the woman to “go now and sin no more”, but not before asking her who remained there to judge her, and when she said no one my lord, he replied, and neither do I. And, if Jesus would not pass judgment, then who are we to do so?
Jesus had harsh words for the sanctimonious, the self-righteous and the arrogant letting it be known in no uncertain terms that he was not impressed by their piety. He preferred to sit down and break bread the sinners and the outcast instead.
And, how would Jesus react the Fred Phelps of the world who said nothing about the sin and brutality of Matthew Shepard’s murder yet protested his life with “God hates Fags” placards at his funeral?
I have known plenty of good and decent gay couples that have been together for decades and obviously love and care for each other deeply. Excepting sanctioned vows, they are as married as any I know. And, I have known married couples that violate the sanctity of those vows from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go back to bed.
I have known gay people who were the salt of the earth, and some that were total jerks. Just like the rest of us. And, I will no more pass a value judgment on them simply because they are gay than I would anybody else. How people behave towards their fellow human beings is what is important, and that is what they should be judged by.
I am not anti-Christian, far from it. I do my best to live the life of tolerance and compassion that I believe Jesus taught us we should live. But, I have little patience with those who insist that their version of Christianity is the only authentic one and that if you do not believe as they do, you are damned. I have a hard time believing that Jesus would be more impressed with dogma than empathy. Of course these are the same people who claim that it is you who are bigoted if you do not tolerate their prejudices. No bigotry should ever be tolerated, and it is a travesty of true spirituality to attribute your personal intolerance to God.
I learned long ago that what goes on in the recesses of the human heart is far more important than what goes on in bed. I learned that compassion and mercy have far more soul than dogma and doctrine. I learned that tolerance and charity open the heart and that fear and resentment closes it. I learned that hatred poisons the spirit. And, I learned that to change the world you must change hearts and minds first. I don’t expect to change anybody’s heart or mind but I can hope and I can try. “If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” Without compassion, we are no better than our prejudices.

I don't expect to convince you of anything but you are very self righteous and Jesus had very harsh words for the self righteous... to say that he was not impressed with is being charitable.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by grover]

Very Well Said , Grover!!!

I couldnt eve count how many christians claim to have become straight, and who say they have overcome homosexuality.

I say they are just building bigger closets for themeselves, sexuality is not a choice, as most people know. If god created you gay, isnt there a reason your gay? (If you believe in god.)

3 weeks and hes straight? B*S*

Originally posted by Annee
I really don't care about Haggard - - he's made his bed - - whatever.

It greatly concerns me that there are so many Christians who will "forgive" him for his "errors" - - and continue in their worship - - and believe God answered their prayers.

I have to say there is a difference in the Essence of Christ - the message - - and Religiosity.

As an Organization I am appalled by Christian Fundamentalists - - but I admire the individual who truly walks-the-walk - - - of the message of Love - Understanding - Forgiveness - Acceptance - - which is not about hate and control - - but about being of a higher order.

I personally can not live this life with blinders on.

I agree. It is one thing for people to "forgive" him for being a homo............it is quite another if they believe he has been cured of his homosexuality. He just went back in the closet is all he did...............he will come back out. I really don't see "turning" a guy once he gets a taste of the d*c*..............any guy who takes it up the butt or likes to go down on another guy is GAY.

Deal with it.

why do they need to forgive him for being born a homosexual? hell, as christians they should see that it's the way god made him.

funnymentalist Christians are Christian in name only.... their arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy make them into they very type of people Christ roundly condemned... but of course they are blind to the reality of that.

Forgive me for posting this again, but I feel it appropriate to this argument.
My ultimate reply to Biblical condemnation of homosexuals is in an internet "Letter to Dr. Laura", as follows:

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

This can be further explored at Snopes... www.snopes.com...
but it serves as the last word on religious intolerance towards homosexuals...hopefully it sends the bigots scuttling back to their crevices.

Originally posted by grover
funnymentalist Christians are Christian in name only.... their arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy make them into they very type of people Christ roundly condemned... but of course they are blind to the reality of that.

again, from your point of view they aren't TRUE christians, but from their point of view those that you would claim are true christians aren't. these people are just as right about how to practice christianity as anyone else.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

Actually if that means that a BBQ is a legit alternative to Sunday Mass, then great!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by grover
funnymentalist Christians are Christian in name only.... their arrogance, self-righteousness and hypocrisy make them into they very type of people Christ roundly condemned... but of course they are blind to the reality of that.

again, from your point of view they aren't TRUE christians, but from their point of view those that you would claim are true christians aren't. these people are just as right about how to practice christianity as anyone else.

You are wrong in that. If you read the new Testament Jesus consistently takes to task and roundly condemns the hypocrite, the self-righteous, the arrogant and the wealthy preferring the company of the sinners, the outcast, the prostitutes and tax collectors over the "good people" of his day.

Originally posted by grover
You are wrong in that. If you read the new Testament Jesus consistently takes to task and roundly condemns the hypocrite, the self-righteous, the arrogant and the wealthy preferring the company of the sinners, the outcast, the prostitutes and tax collectors over the "good people" of his day.

and yet the new testament holds the utmost respect for the older hebrew writings, the same ones that people use to justify so much hatred and prejudice.