Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'

Originally posted by RocknRoll
Read the OT and you'll see lots on instances of the just dying because of the sins of the wicked.

As a Christian, why do you follow the old testament? Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear cloths of a different thread? Do you touch the skin of a pig? Do you etc. etc. All are abominations you know. Not just homosexual acts.

[edit on 2/9/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by rocknroll
God doesn't make homosexuals. Sin does. Homosexuality is a sin.

And here I thought homosexuality wasn't a sin but the act was? So, if God didn't make you homosexual and sin did, then now that you are celebate (without that sin) and still homosexual, how can you say this? How can you still be homosexual without the sin if God didn't make you homosexual? Also, I thought you said earlier that homosexuality was a gift that you need to give back to God? If it's God's gift, then how can you say God didn't make you homosexual? Sounds like spinning and spinning to me. Which is it? A gift from God or a gift from sin?

I do my best to follow the spiritual path and to live my life as a decent human being, but to say that your path alone leads to salvation represents a profound misunderstand of the spiritual.

All paths lead from and back to God.

The two faces of Janus do not reflect the dualism of either/or, rather they express the continuum of either and or; there are two powers in the world, but the second one is incidental for the one that remains is nothing but love.

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by grover
I don't believe in original sin...

Your choice....your loss.

As far as your beliefs that is.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
he/she stated that even if their only daughter contracted AIDS they'd still say it was her fault.

I'm a girl. And yes, if my daughter engaged in dangerous and risky behaviors and caught HIV it would definately be her fault. Who else would be to blame? No one but her. And YOU shouldn't have to pay for her mistakes. And by paying for her mistakes, that takes away from other places that the money should be spent.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
And Jesus said ...

What does Jesus have to do with it? Nothing. This is pure secular economics I'm discussing.

You're advocating stopping AIDS research in favor of others.

Yes.

Originally posted by Ex
What a hypocritical view you have........

Get over yourself.

I guess they should only help with diseases that effect YOU & YOURS??

You can keep your ... that's pathetic. Go back and reread the entire thread. You'll see that I don't suffer from breast cancer, or pediatric diabeties or any of the other diseases that I said the AIDs research money could be better spent on. Read the damn thread before you open mouth and insert foot.

maybe you should start another thread

THAT is what I said to begin with.

FlyersFan,

As me being a gay man and never having children, do you think it is right that I have to pay for your children in school tax? Or that my tax dollars go for children's diabetese? Etc. Now, see how hypocritical you are being?

[edit on 2/9/2007 by Griff]

And if she were raped...or got it from a blood transmission, still happens. what then?

What happens when when only the wealthy can afford a cure?

Is that justice or is it just compassionate conservatism?

[edit on 9-2-2007 by grover]

Rock,

You still don't understand what I'm writing and I think you're presenting yourself with a very limited and ignorant knowledge of the Bible. I'm not going to debate with you anymore, you've managed to get yourself so far into denial you can't even see it. You responses to me hardly make any sense.

As for your quote from Romans I think you should read this, it address the passage you quoted (thanks to Ex for the link, you rock!)

Read this RocknRoll

You're interpretation of the Bible is taken completely out of historical context and with absolutely no regard to the original meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew. Just because your NLT says something doesn't mean that's the way it was originally written.

There are but a handful of passages that actually deal with homosexuality and even those are generally mistranslated and twisted to deal with homosexuality. Most of the passages are taken out of both historic and scriptual context and become quite clear when you read a discussion of the original Greek, Hebrew, Vulgate, etc meanings and words.

You're limiting yourself and your own salvation and it will only lead to unhappiness.

But nothing I say is going to get you off of your self deluded high horse and you will continue to tell me I'm going to hell for being the way God made me. You're continuing to fuel the fires of hate and support the persecution of your own people.

The blood of all homosexuals beaten and killed for being who they are is on your hands Rock.

Flyers,

Sorry, but you screwed yourself over with the whole AIDS comments. I don't think I'm going to touch that anymore as you've revealed your true colors.

And here I thought I was debating with a sane rational person.

Oh well, you and Rock are both coming off as a little crazy (just my opinion).

Oh I see this thread took the normal irrational and dogmatic turn for discussion of homosexuality. Pity there isn't a vomit icon, this will have to do...

Prejudice and bigotry always wrong no matter the race, religion, politics, gender or sexuality of the person it is directed towards.

Originally posted by melatonin
Oh I see this thread took the normal irrational and dogmatic turn for discussion of homosexuality. Pity there isn't a vomit icon, this will have to do...

Actually, there is it's:

Anyways, thanks for the wonderfully enlightening comment and the valuable addition to the discussion!

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Actually, there is it's:

Anyways, thanks for the wonderfully enlightening comment and the valuable addition to the discussion!

Cheers. I'll remember that

The discussion has strayed into places I tend not to bother with, I like to retain as many neurons as possible. They do say something about how certain people drag you down to their level and can beat you with experience. I suggest you get out now, heheh.

lol, since it's now about 5 pm I'm out of it.

I tried not to get dragged down into some stupid circular argument but real work was hardly winning the battle for my attention.

Silly me for thinking that showing someone some compassion and understanding would get me anything but an argument.

Originally posted by grover
In all seriousness the notion of original sin is the ultimate guilt trip and I refuse to play along.

Guilt inside of you, is the voice of the Holy Spirit.
It keeps you from doing wrong (unless your free will decides otherwise).
People only feel guilt as a result of sin.

Originally posted by Griff
As a Christian, why do you follow the old testament?

Um, because all Christians follow the OT and NT?
Where have you been?

Originally posted by Griff
Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear cloths of a different thread? Do you touch the skin of a pig? Do you etc. etc.

Same ol, same ol homosexual argument.
When will you guys stop using this as an excuse and realize the Truth?

According to you I "sin" all the time, but I don't feel guilty for it. I think you're painting yourself into a corner Rock, it's ok, I'll leave you alone.

Send me a postcard from the pyramids while you're swimming down denial.

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by Griff
Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear cloths of a different thread? Do you touch the skin of a pig? Do you etc. etc.

Same ol, same ol homosexual argument.
When will you guys stop using this as an excuse and realize the Truth?

Whenever you admit that you do and stop being hypocritical. How's that?

Originally posted by rocknroll

Originally posted by Griff
As a Christian, why do you follow the old testament?

Um, because all Christians follow the OT and NT?
Where have you been?

Really? Then what was the point of Christ walking the earth? So we could have two testaments? I always thought it was so we didn't have to follow all the rules for salvation in the old testament. Please explain 'ol wise one of the bible.

Originally posted by Griff
And here I thought homosexuality wasn't a sin but the act was?

You're right Griff. Sorry, I stand corrected. I worded it wrong.
Homosexual behavior is a sin. That's what I meant to say.

Originally posted by Griff
So, if God didn't make you homosexual and sin did, then now that you are celebate (without that sin) and still homosexual, how can you say this?

Because I still live with the temptaion of homosexual sin and always will. I choose to not act on it. I have learned the repercussion of that activity. That temptation to sin will always be attached to me, but I'm not acting on it and allowing the sin to come to fruition. I have conquered the sin of homosexual behavior for a good many years now.

Originally posted by Griff
Also, I thought you said earlier that homosexuality was a gift that you need to give back to God? If it's God's gift, then how can you say God didn't make you homosexual? Sounds like spinning and spinning to me. Which is it? A gift from God or a gift from sin?

Reread what I said. I had read that this is the way some people had interpreted it. Personally, I don't think this is the case. But, I don't know??????
If this were the case, I would think the gift lies ahead in heaven for not acting upon the sin, not for acting on it. You get rewarded for giving up your earthly desires to make God happy. You're saying to Him, "I love you so much I'm going to do this for you".
That's a huge sacrifice for God.