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Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'

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posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Flyers,

Jeez, I don't even know what to say. I guess I feel bad for your daughter then. You would honestly look her in the eye and say "Sorry, you shouldn't have done whatever it is you did?" That's so cold it make Odin shiver.




A cure would be great. It's also 100% free. The cure is DO NOT engage in behaviors that will cause it to spread and AIDS will die off by itself.


Deny Ignorance my friend, I feel you don't really understand the extent to which AIDS is effecting the entire planet.

You're welcome to your opinions but I think you should base them off of the furthest extent of your knowledge lest you open yourself up to sounding like a fool.

And I don't think you know what part of your taxes, or which specific tax goes to pay for such research, I know I don't.

This discussion has taken a turn for the ugly




posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Heartless. There is no other word for that type of attitude...that and perhaps mean spirited and callous.


Heartless. Mean spirited and callous. Selfish. PC driven. Yep .. that's YOUR type of attitude. Sad really. :shk:



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
This discussion has taken a turn for the ugly


That's Grover's fault. He' hopped on and started throwing self rightous blathering around.

Oh well ... whatever. I think the topic of Haggard has been discussed at length anyways. I don't think this is the last we will hear from him. His self-help tapes and books on Gay-Cures will be out soon, I'm sure.

Not much else to say on him.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Doing good is not qualifiable. Jesus would not ask how a soul got their ailment nor refuse or resent helping them if they were responsible for it. He would simply roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Why should you or me be any different?

And Jesus said let who is without sin, let them cast the first stone. And one by one they hung their heads in shame and turned away. And when they were there alone Jesus helped the woman up and asked her who was there now to condemn her? And she replied, no one my lord and he said and neither do I, go now and sin no more.

That is the heart and soul of the message of Jesus that the fundamentalists have forgotten..." And neither do I".

You can blame me for your heartlessness all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Doing good is not qualifiable. Jesus would not ask how a soul got their ailment nor refuse or resent helping them if they were responsible for it. He would simply roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Why should you or me be any different?

And Jesus said let who is without sin, let them cast the first stone. And one by one they hung their heads in shame and turned away. And when they were there alone Jesus helped the woman up and asked her who was there now to condemn her? And she replied, no one my lord and he said and neither do I, go now and sin no more.



Couldn't have said it better myself. That being said I think I'll go on to other threads unless we're going to keep discussing Haggard, gay cures, or homosexuality as a sin.

Flyers, maybe you should start another thread about how you don't want tax money going to AIDS research, call it "AIDS, it's your own damn fault" lol

I think you're confusing things, no one is advocating taking money from one research to fund another. You're advocating stopping AIDS research in favor of others.


Ex

posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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They are dying from it because they chose to do something that caused them to catch the disease. Smokers who catch lung cancer ... they caused it fully knowing what could happen. Why should my tax money get pulled from good causes (such as breast cancer research, etc) to find cures for things that are almost completely preventable by the patient themselves??


I am just in utter shock at your opinion!

What about wives and husbands whose partner brought this disease
home from an affair or street pickup?
Do they deserve to suffer???
Or CHILDREN born into this world with Aids??
I guess they are just paying for the sins of their Fathers ,right??

What a hypocritical view you have........

and might I add a very white suburban one also....
and will not go further on that issue

Soooooooooooo.
I guess they should only help with diseases that effect YOU & YOURS??



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:08 AM
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The sad truth of the matter is that Haggard and people like him are so wrapped up in denial about their very selves, that to face those realities would destroy them.

That is why you have had the self-loathing gays like Roy Cohn and I know a lost soul right now who would be so much better off if he would simply face the fact that he was gay and be done with it.

But when people start using religion as justification for their own prejudices and follies, or hide behind it, well self-destruction of some form cannot be far behind.

Without compassion we are no better than our prejudices. (one of the best lines I ever pinned)


[edit on 9-2-2007 by grover]


Ex

posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:23 AM
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I have yet to EVER hear of Jesus even commenting
on Homosexual people...

I went fishing to find research on this too
and came up with this
which does examine the issue in the bible!

HERE



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:31 AM
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Grover,

I agree 100%, it's why I started posting in this thread. It's just twisted to push somebody into total denial all the while telling them it's what God wants. It's not healthy and it leads to doing something even worse. Just look at Haggard, he could've been completely happy being gay but instead he's turned into a Meth addict.

I just felt really bad for Rocknroll and wanted to show him that not everyone is going to condemn him and there are some of us who understand him. But whatever, i tried, if he's happier this way then so be it.

People need to just accept themselves and be who they are and God will love them no matter what. If other people won't except you for who you are they aren't worth your time. Most of them eventually show their true colors anyways.

God made you just the way he wants you, period.

Blaming the evils of the world on homosexuality is no different than blaming it on violent video games or rap music. It's just an excuse for some self righteous wind bags to start a crusade against something so they don't have to face their own problems.

The only difference is that this whole crusade against homosexuality is effecting innocent people and warping the minds of impressonable confused youths. I suppose people like Haggard would rather have a gay kid kill himself then be gay and happy.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:37 AM
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Here is a commentary I wrote for the local paper... it is the source for my without compassion line as well. I think it expresses my opinion on the matter very clearly.

You don’t have to be gay in order to sympathize with them over the prejudice and hatred that they face, or for any other discriminated against minority for that matter. Just a modicum of charity and simple human decency will do.
The amount of abuse that gays receive, just for being what they are, both as children, and as adults is terrible. I have witnessed it first hand and nobody should have to go through that.
The depression and suicide rates among gay teens are appalling. I knew a boy who blew his brains out after his good church going parents disowned him for being gay.
My late wife and I gave refuge to a young man after his parents threw him out because he was gay. Afterwards, I made sure my stepsons clearly understood that there was no difference between them being picked on because they were black and Chinese; and somebody else being harassed because they were gay. Both are wrong.
A former coworkers fundamentalist parents, refused to have anything to do with him after he announced that he was gay, even unto death. They wouldn’t even consent to his burial, and his grieving lover had to go to court for permission to lay him to rest.
I don’t care what church you go to, such behavior is mean spirited and hateful. And, no amount of Bible thumping will change that. The Bible has been used to justify many things, not all of them good, just or moral. Remember slavery?
Jesus enjoined us to love one another, to “do unto others, as you would have them do unto you”.
Jesus taught us to “judge not lest we be judged”.
Jesus urged us to be more concerned about the beam in our own eye than the mote in our neighbors.
Jesus told us to “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. And yes he told the woman to “go now and sin no more”, but not before asking her who remained there to judge her, and when she said no one my lord, he replied, and neither do I. And, if Jesus would not pass judgment, then who are we to do so?
Jesus had harsh words for the sanctimonious, the self-righteous and the arrogant letting it be known in no uncertain terms that he was not impressed by their piety. He preferred to sit down and break bread the sinners and the outcast instead.
And, how would Jesus react the Fred Phelps of the world who said nothing about the sin and brutality of Matthew Shepard’s murder yet protested his life with “God hates Fags” placards at his funeral?
I have known plenty of good and decent gay couples that have been together for decades and obviously love and care for each other deeply. Excepting sanctioned vows, they are as married as any I know. And, I have known married couples that violate the sanctity of those vows from the moment they get up in the morning to the moment they go back to bed.
I have known gay people who were the salt of the earth, and some that were total jerks. Just like the rest of us. And, I will no more pass a value judgment on them simply because they are gay than I would anybody else. How people behave towards their fellow human beings is what is important, and that is what they should be judged by.
I am not anti-Christian, far from it. I do my best to live the life of tolerance and compassion that I believe Jesus taught us we should live. But, I have little patience with those who insist that their version of Christianity is the only authentic one and that if you do not believe as they do, you are damned. I have a hard time believing that Jesus would be more impressed with dogma than empathy. Of course these are the same people who claim that it is you who are bigoted if you do not tolerate their prejudices. No bigotry should ever be tolerated, and it is a travesty of true spirituality to attribute your personal intolerance to God.
I learned long ago that what goes on in the recesses of the human heart is far more important than what goes on in bed. I learned that compassion and mercy have far more soul than dogma and doctrine. I learned that tolerance and charity open the heart and that fear and resentment closes it. I learned that hatred poisons the spirit. And, I learned that to change the world you must change hearts and minds first. I don’t expect to change anybody’s heart or mind but I can hope and I can try. “If I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” Without compassion, we are no better than our prejudices.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:37 AM
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I guess they should only help with diseases that effect YOU & YOURS??


Nope, read the rest of Flyers's posts, in which he/she stated that even if their only daughter contracted AIDS they'd still say it was her fault.




I have yet to EVER hear of Jesus even commenting


Yup, neither have I. However, He did say A LOT about not listening to false prophets, about people teaching lies in His name, about the hypocrisy of the religious leaders, things like that.

I can't even count how many times I've heard "You know what the Bible says about those gays." Not a whole lot lol



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
TONS. Gov't sponsored AIDS research. Aids awareness. Billions (6 billion I think) recently promised to Africa for AIDS research ... all our tax money that could be used to prevent something that is truly unpreventable.

Hey .. it's my opinion and I can have it .. even if it isn't PC.



And how many TRILLIONS of your tax dollars goes to the war effort in Iraq? That was totally preventable also. But, I guess that's different eh?



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Oh blah blah blah :shk: Get real grover. And franky I think it's rather short sighted and selfish of YOU to demand all this money be taken from helping children with diabetes, helping those with parkinsons, helping those with breast cancer and so on .... to go to people who caught something that they could easily have prevented themselves from catching.



Tell your daughter that when she gets raped by an HIV positive man. Totally preventable huh?



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sad, really sad .. to put a disease that is 100% preventable before children with diabetes...


It's not put before any other disease. Where do you get that from?



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
Flyers, maybe you should start another thread about how you don't want tax money going to AIDS research, call it "AIDS, it's your own damn fault" lol


Please let me know if FF does. I'd like to be a part of that thread.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
Nothing I say is going to be able to defeat the dogma you've so permanently welded to your psyche.

I have no dogma attached to me. I have my belief in jesus and the Holy Bible. That's it.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Your quote from Romans was speaking about the entire human race, it just included a line about homosexuality.

I disagree. That paragraph speaks volumes about the homosexual subculture. I've lived it, I've seen it.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Paul was not one of the original disciples, I don't even think he ever met Jesus in the flesh...........Jesus even told us that many will preach lies in his name and we should be ever watchful for such a preacher.

So, you're saying Paul is a liar then?


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Sure, maybe a lot of gay men are sex addicts but it's completely illogical to say all gay men are sex addicts because it's just not true.

Not all. Just the vast majority That's alot.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Everything that gay men do is mirrored by the straight community. Sex parties, drugs, promiscuity, poor moral choices, they're all signs of the time we live in, not signs of the sinfulness of homosexuality.

Yeah, I agree, they're a bad influence.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Whether you're gay or straight, it comes down to self control. Everything in life is about self control and self discipline.

Sexual self-control and sexual discipline are something gay men are deficient in.
This is why AIDS spread like wildfire through the gay community in the late 1980's-early 1990's.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
AIDS wasn't created by God to punish the evil homosexuals.

I don't discount AIDS is not a "plague" from God; I'm not sure. Unfortunately with it comes lot's of collateral damage. The good die with the bad.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Anyone can get AIDS and they all get it for the same reasons, making bad choices and not playing it safe.

And this says alot about AIDS!


Originally posted by Shadowflux
No matter what I say I'm not going to change your mind and you're going to continue with your self loathing and you will continue to fuel the fires of hatred and bigotry.

Wrong. I don't hate homosexuals. I think they have made a bad choice. They will pay for it when they die. I'm just here saying, you can change and prevent this from happening. You don't have to listen to me.....you've made your choice already.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
I still feel bad for you

Actually, I feel sorry for you. Your homosexual desires are blinding you from the truth of God.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
All I know is that God has only ever told me to love, accept and care for all His creation. He never told me to discriminate or teach hatred and lies.

Becoming a celibate gay man is not about hatred or lies or discrimination. It's about obeying God and His word. He has also strictly told you not to lay down with other men, but you ignore Him in that regard. He told you to love your neighbors, not lube other men's bottoms up and poke them when you're horny or drain them with your mouth.

Can you show me the part of the Bible where He specifically "condones" homosexuality? Mano y mano???
No? Didn't think so.


[edit on 9-2-2007 by rocknroll]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Ex
What about wives and husbands whose partner brought this disease
home from an affair or street pickup?
Do they deserve to suffer???
Or CHILDREN born into this world with Aids??
I guess they are just paying for the sins of their Fathers ,right??


It's called "collateral damage". It's when innocents die as a result of the sins of others.
This is why God hates sin, because not only does it affect the sinner, but the innocent ones around them. Innocent people die because of other idiots sins. It happens. Is it fair? No. Who's fault is it? The sinner.

Read the OT and you'll see lots on instances of the just dying because of the sins of the wicked.

Innocent people suffer because of idiots who make bad choices.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
I just felt really bad for Rocknroll and wanted to show him that not everyone is going to condemn him and there are some of us who understand him.

Everyone?
Obviously your worried about what other men think of you. The world....
I'm not. I don't answer to man. I answer to God alone. And one day you will too....


Originally posted by Shadowflux
God made you just the way he wants you, period.

God doesn't make homosexuals. Sin does. Homosexuality is a sin.
Sin is an offence against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is a failure in genuine love for God and neighbour caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods (homosexual sex in this instance). Sin is thus "love of oneself even to the contempt of God."

"the sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin."


Originally posted by Shadowflux
The only difference is that this whole crusade against homosexuality is effecting innocent people and warping the minds of impressonable confused youths.

I disagree. Homosexuality warps the minds of innocent, impressonable, confused youths. And adults too......



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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I don't believe in original sin...I've tried and its all been done.

In all seriousness the notion of original sin is the ultimate guilt trip and I refuse to play along. If you want to embrace guilt and atonement for a mythological past that is fine with you but not all of us buy into it.

As far as I am concerned when you start interpreting religion literally you are in for trouble... the language of the divine is so vast that metaphor and symbolism, the knowing gesture are the only things that do it justice.

The fall from grace could just as easily be seen as a metaphor as a decent (or assent) into conciousness from the animal state.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by grover]



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by grover
I don't believe in original sin...

Your choice....your loss.



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