Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'

Flyers:

"The seven deadly sins" aren't really in the Bible, not in the sense that the Ten Commandments are, that is, explicitly stated. Lust, for instance, has been a sinful theme through out the Bible and has been the downfall of a few characters and therefore is implied as one of the top 7 sins.

I will, however, agree with you that the Catholic Church feels that way and I'm going to hold my tongue on saying anything at all about Catholic Church, partly out of respect for you and partly because I don't have the time to get into it lol

And it depends how you define "fundamentalists". The United Methodists aren't supposed to drink or dance but no one views them as fundamental.

It's all church dogma, it's not God's law

Edit:

Lust and love are two different things.

Agreed! I was trying to tell that to Rocknroll when he was telling me how all homosexuals are sex addicts.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Shadowflux]

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I'm going to hold my tongue on saying anything at all about Catholic Church

You have just pleasantly surprised me. I'm jaded. You are passing over a chance to slug the Catholic church .. out of respect. Thank you.

The Catholic church isn't really the issue since Haggard isn't Catholic. I don't know how we got onto Catholic stuff anyways.

The United Methodists

Aren't fundamentlalists.

Rocknroll when he was telling me how all homosexuals are sex addicts.

Well ... I have absolutely no first hand knowledge in this area. None. So I can only go by what ya'll say and what I read. I am competely without an opinion as far as the sex addiction/gay correlation.

There was a documentary of this so-called religious conversion thing. Basically it programs a homosexual person into denial to fit in the picture for homophobics. Something like that.

I think its an embaressment to the church and is prepostrious

7A

[edit on 8-2-2007 by 7Ayreon]

You have just pleasantly surprised me. I'm jaded. You are passing over a chance to slug the Catholic church .. out of respect. Thank you.

You're welcome, I never wanted to start an argument, just wanted to voice my thoughts. Plus, I hate the way the atheists try and pick apart the church without any real knowledge of the Bible or Christian belief systems. My issues with churches really stem from theological differences and the way I interpret certain fundamental aspects of Christian belief such as the Trinity.



7Ayreon,

It certainly is preposterous, and I still think it's downright evil. I mean, ok, Ted Haggard had it coming but he did this to himself. I feel bad for all the innocent people who get caught up in this crap. It's hard enough to be gay, no one needs self righteous a holes telling them they're sinful and evil.

Plus, I know from experience, none of the stuff they do works lol

Any church or congregation that isn't open and accepting of everyone isn't truly Christian, if you ask me.

What grinds my gears is that the man was using money people have given him through offerings to do something he completely was so hell bent against and preached against, using it to buy prostitutes (gay or Str8) and doing drugs as well. So he and his wife decide to get there Masters in psychology? He's insane, and his wife is too, to stay with him, and all the believers that follow him are too. I wanna bang my head off the wall reading this.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
All the Christians I know who're true disciples attend no church what so ever.

It's been a long time since I attended mass.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
That is the only line in your whole quote that mentions homosexuality. And it also says that they already received the penalty for their actions, a penalty decided by God and administered by God alone.

That's where we disagree. That whole entire paragraph address homosexuality. It's not just one line.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Plus, this is from Paul's (I believe) letter to the Romans, it is not a gospel nor is it the words of Christ. Romans was written a long while after Jesus was on Earth.

Aaaahhh, so we're only supposed to "believe" certain parts of the NT, huh?
That's an interesting slant.


[edit on 8-2-2007 by rocknroll]

Originally posted by DJMessiah


I hope Christian extremists don't use his claim as a means of ridiculing the gay community even more as "proof" that homosexuality can be changed.

There is no so thing as a Christian extremist. Your either a Christian or you're not.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I was trying to tell that to Rocknroll when he was telling me how all homosexuals are sex addicts.

Don't be so blind.

External source

Sex addiction is not something that the gay community wants to admit is prevalent, and understandably so. There is certainly a reasonable fear that this issue might be used against the community, just as the very real problems of alcohol and drug addiction and teen suicide have been. Also, the culture at large sends a message that "gay sex is bad"—so it’s easy to see how gay people revolt against any message telling us that there might be a problem with gay sex. But as good and as right as gay sex is, our community needs to face that we’ve created a culture in which sexual addiction is widespread.

www.imagohealing.com...

External sources

AIDS research released in 1982 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had over 500 different sexual partners. To put that in perspective, a 1990 University of Chicago study found that the average lifetime number of sexual partners for the U.S. population as a whole is 7.15.

Many in the gay community still equate sexual promiscuity with gay liberation in general. Within the gay community, sexual addiction runs rampant. The reasons are obvious given the history of our treatment and ostracization by society. Nevertheless, now that we are gaining inclusion and being welcomed as equals, we need to face it as the chronic serious problem that it is.

I can dig up tons more on rampant gay sexual addiction if you'd like?
I can honestly say the "majority" of gay men are sex addicts. They don't want to admit it.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by rocknroll]

ROTFLMAO Yeah right and I am a closet Republican.

Sorry honey it don't work that way....he's just setting himself up for another, probably bigger fall. better to suck in your gut and be a man about it and say yeah... I am gay or bisexual, I have been living a lie calling myself straight all these years and be done with it. People are just going to suffer for his continued lies...most notably his family.

It doesn't matter who you love or what their gender is...what is important is that you love.

Without compassion we are no better than our prejudices.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by grover]

[edit on 8-2-2007 by grover]

Rock,

Oh well, it's really no big deal honestly and I can sleep pretty well knowing I haven't changed your mind. I only spoke up because I was moved with compassion for your situation. Nothing I say is going to be able to defeat the dogma you've so permanently welded to your psyche.

You're just misreading me and maybe that's my fault, who knows. Your quote from Romans was speaking about the entire human race, it just included a line about homosexuality. Plus, it depends on the translation you read, I trust the KJV over all other versions but even that one isn't as good as the original Greek which I obviously can't read lol

Greek is a deep language full of a lot of deeper meanings than English can manage in one sentence. Paul was not one of the original disciples, I don't even think he ever met Jesus in the flesh. I take Christ's words before I take anyone else's. Jesus even told us that many will preach lies in his name and we should be ever watchful for such a preacher (Haggard, duh). Even the Bible itself is steeped in church politics and dogma, ever hear of the apocrypha?

Sure, maybe a lot of gay men are sex addicts but it's completely illogical to say all gay men are sex addicts because it's just not true. There are many sex addicts of both sexes and any sexual preference. Whether you're gay or straight you're garunteed to get cheated on a few times, you can count on making bad decisions when it comes to relationships and you're definitely going to get hurt more than a few times. However, most of us get over it and move on in the hope that one day we will find someone we can be happy with.

Everything that gay men do is mirrored by the straight community. Sex parties, drugs, promiscuity, poor moral choices, they're all signs of the time we live in, not signs of the sinfulness of homosexuality. Whether you're gay or straight, it comes down to self control. Everything in life is about self control and self discipline.

AIDS wasn't created by God to punish the evil homosexuals. Anyone can get AIDS and they all get it for the same reasons, making bad choices and not playing it safe. AIDS isn't even the only STD you can get, hell, there are a lot of them.

No matter what I say I'm not going to change your mind and you're going to continue with your self loathing and you will continue to fuel the fires of hatred and bigotry. I still feel bad for you, I wish you could find someone you could be happy with, someone who won't try to change you or tell you that you're going to hell. Oh well, I'll be around if you ever want to talk.

All I know is that God has only ever told me to love, accept and care for all His creation. He never told me to discriminate or teach hatred and lies.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Anyone can get AIDS and they all get it for the same reasons, making bad choices

You are right. So why should my tax money go to find a cure for AIDS when it is spread and caught almost exclusively by people making bad personal choices? I know some folks don't get it that way, but the majority do. That is a good subject for another thread.

I wish you could find someone you could be happy with,

I think he has. His life-partner is God. It was his choice and I think he doesn't have to worry God giving him a divorce, and I don't think he has to worry about God abandoning him ... (or any of the other negative things human partners do).

Having God as a life-partner is fantastic.


edited ONCE for spelling


[edit on 2/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

You are right. So why should my tax money go to find a cure for AIDS when it is spread and caught almost exclusively by people making bad personal choices?

My aren't you a compassionate soul. You must really be right with Jesus.

BTW Jesus sat down and broke bread with the outcast and the sinners preferring their company to that of the self righteous.

There is a lesson there that your pastor probably didn't pass on to you.

Without compassion we are no better than our prejudices.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by grover

Right back atchya.

Who Christ 'broke bread with' doesn't have anything to do with my tax money being wasted on something that is entirely preventable by a vast majority of the people who get the disease.

That tax money could go to take care of many other things.

It's a waste. If the people would keep their pants up and not inject with dirty needles ... billions in AIDS research money could have been spent to find a cure breast cancer, or childhood diabetes, or colon cancer .....

Sad really sad... to put your tax money before simple basic decency. And I bet you do call yourself a Christian huh?

It doesn't matter... I am sure you have your reward.

Flyers,

I'm shocked, I thought we had a good rapport going but I guess not. Your tax money goes to pay for finding a cure for AIDS because people are suffering and dying from it, regardless of how they got it. There is plenty of money being pumped into finding a breast cancer cure or a cure for any other ailment.

Would you still feel the same way about your tax money if your son or daughter contracted AIDS?

AIDS is ravishing entire countries and you don't want to help find a cure for it?

Besides, what taxes that you pay are being sent to fund AIDS research?

Remember: "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"

It's not your tax money in a sense lol

Amen Shadow Amen.

So many don't want their government to ________________ fill in the blank, until it touches their lives. So selfish and shortsighted.... unfortunately common, especially on the so called right wingers or as I prefer to call them, the wrong wingers, cause there ain't nothing right about them or how they look at the world.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I thought we had a good rapport going but I guess not.

And because I think it's a waste of money this has changed?
Color me surprised.

Your tax money goes to pay for finding a cure for AIDS because people are suffering and dying from it, regardless of how they got it.

They are dying from it because they chose to do something that caused them to catch the disease. Smokers who catch lung cancer ... they caused it fully knowing what could happen. Why should my tax money get pulled from good causes (such as breast cancer research, etc) to find cures for things that are almost completely preventable by the patient themselves??

Would you still feel the same way about your tax money if your son or daughter contracted AIDS?

1 daughter. The answer is yes.

AIDS is ravishing entire countries and you don't want to help find a cure for it?

A cure would be great. It's also 100% free. The cure is DO NOT engage in behaviors that will cause it to spread and AIDS will die off by itself.

what taxes that you pay are being sent to fund AIDS research?

TONS. Gov't sponsored AIDS research. Aids awareness. Billions (6 billion I think) recently promised to Africa for AIDS research ... all our tax money that could be used to prevent something that is truly unpreventable.

Hey .. it's my opinion and I can have it .. even if it isn't PC.

Heartless. There is no other word for that type of attitude...that and perhaps mean spirited and callous.

Originally posted by grover
... until it touches their lives.

Dumb. I don't have breast cancer. I dont have diabetes. But I would rather my tax money go to those unpreventable diseases then to something that is 100% preventable for almost all those who have it.

So selfish and shortsighted.... unfortunately common, especially on the so called right wingers or as I prefer to call them, the wrong wingers, cause there ain't nothing right about them or how they look at the world.

Oh blah blah blah :shk: Get real grover. And franky I think it's rather short sighted and selfish of YOU to demand all this money be taken from helping children with diabetes, helping those with parkinsons, helping those with breast cancer and so on .... to go to people who caught something that they could easily have prevented themselves from catching.

Originally posted by grover
Sad really sad... to put your tax money before simple basic decency.

Sad, really sad .. to put a disease that is 100% preventable before children with diabetes...

So much for your 'simple basic decency'. I'm sure you will have your reward as well. :shk: