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Rev. Ted Haggard now 'completely heterosexual'

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posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Shadowflux- you got to remember that everyone has a sexuality, it just some choose not to act on it. i.e priests, monks, nuns etc all have basic sexuallity but choose not to go down that road. some of these may be running away from there sexual problems and thats there choice, but in case of the paedo in the church thing, it does not help respected priests etc...

i don't see whats the problem if a person chooses not to act out his or her needs, in life. is this a bad thing, or not. though i do understand your point. also remember that saying to do with humans, you never miss what you never wanted. i.e if you never crave for something you will never miss it. so priests etc are helped that hormones calm down after your teen years, and it is far easier to control urges.

yep todays society is more liberal to do with these things, but still there are many who choose not to go down that path. whether this geezer is gay or not, does not help him to say these things for his personal feelings if he is. but i can see if he is religious speaker, than it may cause problems and many believe that a persons sexuallity is linked to there spiritual state, and the his followers may beileve this also. whether this is a fact or not i do not know, but i do know that his followers are being duped by the power of suggestion in his case, whether he is really gay or not. and his coming out saying these things will not help people that are gay, in these communities eyes.

my two cents.

[edit on 2/7/2007 by andy1033]




posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 04:59 PM
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His congregation doesn't want him back, no he gets a taste of what he has been preaching.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
if you're celibate and gay, then you're still gay you just don't act on it.


Completely true. And that is exactly what Rocknroll says ... he's still gay. He isn't 'cured'. Gay is gay. He has made a CHOICE not to act upon his SSA (same sex attraction) urges. He used to, but he no longer does.


I don't see how I could go through life completely denying myself some fundamental human urge.


Lots of people deny human urges and they do so for different reasons. Many do so for reasons of faith.


If God made one or two of us gay then He must've had a reason, who are we to question the Creator?


There is one theory that I'll share with you. Some people believe that God gave some humans the GIFT of homosexuality so that those people would have something to give back to God. Follow? God's commandments in Scripture say 'no gay sex' (see Romans). God commanded no gay sex ... and yet He gave certain people those urges. Those people have a unique opportunity to give God back a great gift .. to remain celebate and deny themselves and give that to God. They are saying 'yes' to God even when their bodies urge them to something else. That's a big gift.

That's just one theory. Of course, it's just a theory.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
I'm not trying to start an argument, but if you're celibate and gay, then you're still gay you just don't act on it.

You are correct!
I don't believe I can change my sexuality.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Which I suppose is a personal choice although I don't see how I could go through life completely denying myself some fundamental human urge.

Well, if you had walked in my shoes you'd see how it's very possible.
In the beginning it was very hard to let that lifestyle go. But it gets easier over time. Sex isn't the end-all, be-all thing in life. There is much more to life then having an orgasm with another human being.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
I just don't think it's right to feel like you're bad and doing something wrong just because some self righteous people said that you are. I think you should just be yourself and be who you are in your heart and be happy. God made all of us just the way he wants us, it even says so in the Bible "even the hairs on your head are numbered."

In the beginning when I came out it didn't feel like I was being bad. I was living it up. Happy gay guy!

But after 15 years out I got a really good dose of what it's all about.
To be honest, after all the crap I went through living as a gay man, I finally understood. I saw the sin in it. I saw that God could not love homosexuality. We gay men, we love to think it's about love, but when it comes down to brass tacks, it's about sex, sex, sex, and more sex. When you love somebody you don't cheat on them, you don't condone open relationships, and you don't hold "human nature" responsible for your actions (we're not animals, we're human beings)


Originally posted by Shadowflux
If God made one or two of us gay then He must've had a reason, who are we to question the Creator?

Questioning the Creator. LOL! Read His book!
He doesn't make anyone gay!
Sin does. It can come into you at any age.
Just like it makes people lie, just like it makes people steal, just like it makes people rape, just like it makes people commit adultery, etc, etc.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
.......but when I had thought of "turning straight" it just didn't seem like God was the one that wanted me to do it.

You'd be surprised the amount of things that have happened in your life that you don't give God credit for..........
God works in mysterious ways.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Some people believe that God gave some humans the GIFT of homosexuality so that those people would have something to give back to God. Follow? God's commandments in Scripture say 'no gay sex' (see Romans). God commanded no gay sex ... and yet He gave certain people those urges.

FF, it's weird I have heard some (like Mother Angelica) say that homosexuality is a gift and it's reward will be found in heaven.....she also says it's very important not to act on it. I don't know. There was a point when I was little and I remember liking girls and kissing them (but I think I did it because I knew boys should like girls). But I also remember having crushes on boys. Something changed when I was around 13 though. The fantasies started gravitating towards men. And the desire to be with a man (lust) got more intense. I realized I was gay. Then it dawns on you, "How the hell did I end up gay?" I lost my virginty with a man when I was 23. It was pure and total lust......and it was great!!!! LOL! I loved sex. I didn't have any hang-ups. I was fun in the sack. It was the gay community and what I saw in it, how the majority of gay men behaved, the lack of morals, and lack of this and that (endless list) that opened my eyes up to what I was dealing with.

I'm not sure if God gave us these urges. Why does one have an urge? Human nature? Can a man seriously blame his penis for getting him an STD? His human nature didn't lead to that...his spirit made a choice to do what led to the disease. Temptation? It's kinda like saying God gave us the urge to lie, rape or steal. Why would God give a man an urge to sin against him? He doesn't. I believe the Devil gives us the urge to do things that oppose God. Yes, God gave us free will. But, sin is our downfall. When sin comes into you, you make the choice with free will.

God doesn't put sin into us. He created us in his image. He doesn't make junk. We do.
Just because this sin (homosexuality) is inside of some of us (and many since we were really young) does not mean that it's God given or "we were born this way". It's no different than why does an upstanding family man all of a sudden cheat on his wife? Should we say that "he was born that way"? Why was he fine all the way up to a certain point? Anything that we do that is wrong in God's eyes is sin......homosexuality is sin, and it comes into people (not all of course), at any age.

I lived it. I beheld the fruit of this sin and now I understand.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
Those people have a unique opportunity to give God back a great gift .. to remain celebate and deny themselves and give that to God. They are saying 'yes' to God even when their bodies urge them to something else. That's a big gift.
That's just one theory. Of course, it's just a theory.

Oh no, it's not just a theory. It's the truth.
Thank you FF! It's nice to find the rare bird who understands.
Bless you!



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 07:47 PM
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I dunno, I'm not trying to get into an argument here, not that I think you guys are arguing. However, I do feel that there is some interesting logic going on here.

I do read the Bible, all the time, it's what's proven to me that the Church is quite fallible but that's a different thread.

I don't think it's right to make people feel like "sinners" for being who they are.

Your relationships were about sex because you made them about sex, it doesn't mean every gay man is a sex maniac, I've known plenty who were monogamous, my neighbors must be in their late 80s or early 90s and they're still together.

I think it's insane to go around telling gay people they need to become straight "because God said so".

The idea that homosexuality was given to someone so that they can turn around and deny it as "a gift to God" seems like dogmatic BS to me.

If you're a Christian then think about this: Jesus died for all our sins. All of them, not just a few, not just for the righteous elite.

If you choose celibacy then that's your decision.

But guilting people into religion is wrong and evil



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
I don't think it's right to make people feel like "sinners" for being who they are.

It's your choice. I'm just telling you how I feel, and my view. If it makes you feel like a sinner, that is your choice. You don't have to feel that way if you think you're doing nothing wrong. Right? If my words make you "feel" like a sinner, how am I responsible for that? You are only being given a different perspective, what you make of it is your choice. Sorry, didn't mean to make you feel weird.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
Your relationships were about sex because you made them about sex, it doesn't mean every gay man is a sex maniac.........I've known plenty who were monogamous, my neighbors must be in their late 80s or early 90s and they're still together.

I've fallen in love 3 times in my life, and all three times experienced infidelity, disease, lies, backstabbing. Most of the gay men I know experience this with regularity also, but always seem to go back for more, they haven't figured out gay relationships are futile......doomed from the start. When I complained to my gay friends that my partner of 8 years cheated on me, the overwhelming response was, "So what, all gay men cheat. Wake up and smell the roses." The majority of gay men who leave their partners, leave for one reason, they've fallen in lust with another man. When that lust dies, the cycle is repeated, again and again. There's no glue to hold the relationship together. This is what I saw everywhere around me in the gay world. This is why AIDS and other STD's run rampant in the gay community....no loyalty. Where's the love? It's replaced with lust. Gay men say, "I'm in love" when they're really in lust. But they say, "I'm not in love anymore" when the fire burns down.

And I disagree, I'd say the majority of gay men are sexually addicted (or borderline). This explains the high promiscuity rate in their community.

Most monogamous gay couples are not truly monogamous. Oh, they may live together for years, but 97% of them have outside sexual contacts during the course of their relationships. They live codependent lives cause they don't want to live alone. All the long term gay couples I've known rarely even have sex anymore. They go outside for it, yet still consider themselves monogamous......they live lies. Do you want stats? I'll be glad to dig them up for you.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
I think it's insane to go around telling gay people they need to become straight "because God said so".

This is why I chose celibacy. I don't believe sexuality can be changed. But I do believe homosexuality is wrong.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
The idea that homosexuality was given to someone so that they can turn around and deny it as "a gift to God" seems like dogmatic BS to me.

He doesn't "make" homosexuals. Sin does.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
If you're a Christian then think about this: Jesus died for all our sins. All of them, not just a few, not just for the righteous elite.

I see, so this gives you a calling card to sin your life away and not be punished for it?



Originally posted by Shadowflux
If you choose celibacy then that's your decision.

Correct.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
But guilting people into religion is wrong and evil

You mean like Jesus did when he walked this earth and preached the Word of God?
LOL!!!!
Jesus said "go and sin no more".
Not, "go and sin like crazy".

[edit on 7-2-2007 by rocknroll]



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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i was just thinking...
what about his meth problem?

he seems to have his "having sex with dudes" "problem" under control...
but what about the meth?



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i was just thinking...
what about his meth problem?


His reply to the meth accusation was that he did indeed buy it, but he immediately threw it away.
He never claimed to use the meth, so he must feel that there is no need to say he's cured.

Of course, I'll give him a few months till another scandal unfolds and he has to apologize once again to people who put their trust in him.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i was just thinking...
what about his meth problem?

he seems to have his "having sex with dudes" "problem" under control...
but what about the meth?

LOL! He was a meth addict too?
This crazy world of ours.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i was just thinking... what about his meth problem?


OH MAN .. that got passed over, didn't it?


Originally posted by Shadowflux
I don't think it's right to make people feel like "sinners" for being who they are.


The Catholic Church doesn't say that being gay is a sin. They say that the actual homosexual act is a sin. There is a difference. I have no idea what the fundies say. There are so many different groups of them and each has their own interpretation. I don't know if just being gay is a sin to them, or if you actually have to go through with homosexual acts.


Originally posted by rocknroll
I'm not sure if God gave us these urges. Why does one have an urge? Human nature?

Sometimes human nature. Sometimes psychological or social conditioning.

Sometimes the urge is from the Holy Spirit. Sometimes the human spirit. Sometimes the body. Sometimes the evil spirits. (at least according to Catholic theology)


It's kinda like saying God gave us the urge to lie, rape or steal. Why would God give a man an urge to sin against him? He doesn't.


God, who knows even the number of hairs upon our heads, knows exactly what conditions we are born with and born into. He knows our physical makeup and the sociology that we are subjected to that shapes our perceptions. Many people are indeed born with urges that are not holy. Temperment is something that is largely passed down through generations and that a person has to work at to change (if they don't like their temperment). People can be born 'angry'. People can be born with SSA (Same Sex Attraction). People can be born with many non-holy urges and feelings.

If a person is Christian, the person can see these as a gift. It is very easy for someone without SSA to refrain from homosexual acts. However, if a person has SSA, and wishes to be a Christian and follow scriptural law, that person has to work at staying celebate. That person has an opportunity to give a HUGE gift to God.

God knows what conditions we are born with. He allows people to be born with many physical and emotional problems. Many of these problems can easily lead a person, who isn't watchful, into sin. I see no reason why God wouldn't allow a person to be born with SSA, especially considering that he allows them to be born with mental health conditions and physical ailments that can be difficult on the mind, body and soul.

But of course .. we won't know for sure until we are dead and we can ask Him face to face. (I only hope I make it 'up there' and get an eternal audience with Him so I can ask.
)



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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Well, I am a lesbian and I am not a Christian, so my views on this are probably a little different than most. Here is what I see:

Thou shall not use meth - not one of the ten commandments.

Thou shall not be gay - also not on the top ten list.

Thou shall not commit adultery - Ding Ding! We have a winner!

Sure the Christian Bible says that men shouldn't have sex with other men, but I would think that those Ten Commandments must have been pretty important or they wouldn't have been all put together in one place like that.

The bottom line is that this man cheated on his wife. He did commit adultery. I would think that this should be a bigger issue.

I know that if my spouse cheated on me, I would care more about the fact that she cheated and less about who exactly she cheated with. The relationship would be over if she had sex with another woman, it would be over if she had sex with a man. See? No difference.

Why must this issue focus on Teddy's sexual orientation and treat his drug use and adultery almost as if they are small details?



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Why must this issue focus on Teddy's sexual orientation and treat his drug use and adultery almost as if they are small details?


You are absolutely right. Haggard and his handlers have been doing the 'cured from being gay' thing. They absolutely are not talking about the adultery and drug use. Glad you brought that up.

I'm jaded, but what I see is an opportunity for them to make big $$$. They'll play the 'cured from being gay in just 3 weeks' thing. Like I said earlier .. watch for books, videos, CDS, and public speaking engagements ... all at a hefty charge.

I don't think there is as much money to be made in the adultery thing as there is in the 'cured gay' thing. (but like I said .. I'm jaded)



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:06 AM
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Meth huh? People need to wake up and realize that drug addiction is far more prevalent than anyone would like to believe.


Rocknroll,

In describing how evil and sinful homosexual relationships are you've actually managed to describe 90% of all relationships. Wives and girlfriends cheat just as often as boyfriends and it's absolutely no surprise to anyone when it happens. I think you've been led to believe that straight relationships are any easier or more pure and it's just not the case.

People who don't accept you for who you are right off the bat aren't worth your time and are actually judging God's creation. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" "Judge not lest ye be judged" I think you guys are picking and choosing what verses to follow

Oh well, there's no point in trying to change your mind, you've been hurt in the past and I feel bad for you, honestly. You don't want to have anything to do with anyone else for the rest of your life because of these past bad experiences and that's your choice. I just hope you don't ever pass up something good, a real chance to be happy with someone simply because your exs have screwed you over.

Flyers,

I know you think that having "SSA" is a sin but I believe a worse sin is having BMD (Bigoted Mouth Diarrhea). Some people have theorized in the past, that the mark of Cain was dark skin and there for black people were sinful descendants of Cain. Do you buy into that theory as well?

I don't think you guys are following Jesus at all, you're just following church dogma. The same dogma created by church leaders like Ted Haggard, Billy Graham, and yes, the Pharisees themselves.

"Sin" as you know it is a creation of the church, Jesus never sat down and said "This is a sin and that is a sin, and that over there is a sin. If you sin you're going to hell so pay attention. Thats a sin, you're sinning right now!" Jesus's teachings were deeper than that, He never set out guidelines for getting into heaven.

I always hear a lot of talk about how the Bible says homosexuality is a sin but I never hear any verses quoted or numbers referenced. I know for a fact that the Bible hardly says anything about it. It does, however, say a lot against judging others and teaching falsehoods in Jesus's name.

"And when I return there will be many who will say 'Look we have cast out demons in your name, and prohpesied and preached in your name' And I will tell them 'What you have done was not permitted!"

Flyers: "What good is it to draw attention to the splinter in our friend's eye if we have a plank in ours?"

Rocknroll: I feel bad for you, I wish there was some way I could make you feel better about everything.

Oh well, I give up.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
I know you think that having "SSA" is a sin ...


Actually, I don't think that at all.


Some people have theorized in the past, that the mark of Cain was dark skin and there for black people were sinful descendants of Cain. Do you buy into that theory as well?


Nope. I heard that crap when I was stuck living in Alabama for 9 years. And that's what it is .. crap.


Originally posted by Shadowflux
I always hear a lot of talk about how the Bible says homosexuality is a sin but I never hear any verses quoted or numbers referenced.


A lot of ROMANS is dedicated to that subject.


[edit on 2/8/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow

The bottom line is that this man cheated on his wife. He did commit adultery. I would think that this should be a bigger issue.


Why must this issue focus on Teddy's sexual orientation and treat his drug use and adultery almost as if they are small details?


It's to cover up the fact that he's no where near as holy and great as he was making himself out to be.

To cover up the fact that God is nowhere near his church, the bible calls it the "Abomination of Desolation"

It turns out he was nothing more than a meth addicted homosexual scam artist.

Thats why Jesus said "You must be more religious than the religious leaders." lol



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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Flyers:



Actually, I don't think that at all.


So lusting after another man isn't a sin?




Nope. I heard that crap when I was stuck living in Alabama for 9 years. And that's what it is .. crap.


Oh, I got it, that theory is just racist tripe. But being gay is still a sin.




A lot of ROMANS is dedicated to that subject.


Could you please quote me or reference the verse numbers for me? Otherwise you basically validated my statement.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
"Sin" as you know it is a creation of the church, Jesus never sat down and said "This is a sin and that is a sin, and that over there is a sin. If you sin you're going to hell so pay attention. Thats a sin, you're sinning right now!" Jesus's teachings were deeper than that, He never set out guidelines for getting into heaven.

I always hear a lot of talk about how the Bible says homosexuality is a sin but I never hear any verses quoted or numbers referenced. I know for a fact that the Bible hardly says anything about it


Jesus talked about "sin" alot.
I hate to burst your bubble.

Do me a favor.
You really need to sit down and read the New Testament.
It's obvious you only are speaking of things from word of mouth (what you've heard).
And, so that you can back up your thoughts and opinions regarding the NT, you need to read it from cover to cover like you would a paperback. No speed-reading. Take your time and contemplate it. Only open your mind when you read it. You will get your answers accurately to all the above. ...and you will be surprised about how many things you were wrong about. If you tell me you're not going to read it, it's because you're afraid of the answers you might find.

This is just one of many lines condemning homosexuality in the bible:

Romans 1:24-32
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

If you want more........read the NT.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by rocknroll]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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Rock, I'm sorry man, but you've got me wrong. I've actually been the only one quoting the Bible this entire thread. I read it all the time, I have one in the breast pocket of my jacket and have it with me wherever I go. It was reading the Bible that taught me not to blindly believe what the church leaders tell me. It taught me to separate church dogma from the true words of Jesus. It taught me not to listen to the homophobes in church who choose homosexuality to vilify so they don't have to focus on their own issues.

Jesus talked about a lot of things but he never sat down and wrote out a list of what's a sin and what's not a sin and as far as I know, Jesus never talked about homosexuality. The only unpardonable sin is the denial of the Holy Spirit.

The only people who've had a vested interest in figuring out what's a sin and what's not have been questionable church leaders. I mean, how many times do you think Haggard got up there and preached about the evils of sin and the evils of the "sex crazed homosexuals"? How many times had he put himself above drug addicts, thieves and fornicators?

Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. He is the ONLY truth, the only way. Just because a priest says something does not make it true. Jesus's words are like the Constitution of the United States, all subsequent laws must be held accountable to the original law.

All the Christians I know who're true disciples attend no church what so ever.

EDIT: to respond to your edit which you made while I posted lol


90% of your quote is condeming the entire human race and not homosexuality in specific.



Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.


That is the only line in your whole quote that mentions homosexuality. And it also says that they already received the penalty for their actions, a penalty decided by God and administered by God alone.

Plus, this is from Paul's (I believe) letter to the Romans, it is not a gospel nor is it the words of Christ. Romans was written a long while after Jesus was on Earth.

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Shadowflux]



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
So lusting after another man isn't a sin?


Lust (after anyone) is one of the 7 deadly sins. But being gay isn't a sin. The sin, as far as the Catholic Church, is in the agreement to carry out the act. The fundamentalists also believe that the act is a sin.

Now Shadowflux .. I'm telling you what the Catholic Church says. Like I said, as far as fundamentalist churches (which Haggard is a member of), I have no idea if they consider being gay to be a sin. I don't know if they consider just the act to be sinful, or if being gay itself is also a sin. I have no idea about their beliefs in this area.

Edited to add - Lust and love are two different things.


[edit on 2/8/2007 by FlyersFan]



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