Clear Evidence British Special Forces are Recruiting and Training Terrorists in Iraq

The truth is there for those with eyes who have seen it first hand. You've presented no evidence that special operations troops would kill friendly forces, because it doesn't exist. There isn't a soldier in the US military that would follow that order, and I feel fairly confident I can say the same thing about our British allies.

Here are examples of the kinds of men in Special Forces- read the citations, and then ask if you think they sound like the kind of guys that would shoot friendly forces, so oil companies profit margins could go up.
The finest folks I've ever worked with are in the units you're slandering, and I take it very personally.

www.specialforces.org...

[edit on 9-2-2007 by GT100FV]

Originally posted by Souljah
As you can see, Britis Intelligence has a past of "suicide bomb techniques" and as you can see, they have been caught with their pants down on several occasions in Northen Ireland - which only proves the theory, that Western intelligence agencies are actually behind suicide bombings in Iraq.

The RUC is not an intelligence agency and niether is the Garda Síochána or are you saying that the irish police force is now a british intelligence covert front. This unnamed person has yet to reveal his name except that he may or may not be an ex NCO from the FRU in northern ireland, and neither does this mean they are behind the bombings in iraq.
And also] may I highlight this article from another source (the telegraph) :

are trained to turn hardened terrorists into coalition spies using methods developed on the mean streets of Ulster during the Troubles, when the Army managed to infiltrate the IRA at almost every level. Since war broke out in Iraq in 2003, they have been responsible for running dozens of Iraqi double agents.

There is a hell of a diffrence between setting up an intelligence ring inside a terrorist cell than finacing terrorism, but then again anything can be made into a crime by a well trained information warior such as yourself souljah.

Still remember two SAS agents caught by Iraq police, wearing traditional muslim clothing, driving into the checkpoint, shooting one policeman dead? What do you call that? An accident? A mistake? An error? How many agents dressed like this are operating in Iraq? The following article is also most interesting:

The SAS did not shoot that man, those 2 men at a check point where in the armed forces Special Reconosance Regiment which is an intelligence unit if you had bothered to read up on them.
en.wikipedia.org...
How many "agents" are operating in iraq? Probably up to a thousand special operation operatives (this btw is not just soldiers) if you would like to understand exactly where and how this unit came about I would suggest you read up about its predecessor: 14th intelligence company.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now how did they get American uniforms and equipment? Okey, uniforms mabye - but flak jackets, guns and a convoy of seven GMC sport utility vehicles? Well something definetly smells fishy here.

You dont think its easy to get flak jackets, M-16's and GMC sports utilities?
I can buy US flack jackets, BDU's , combat webbing, boots, weapons and vehicles with the right money. Hell ever tried looking on ebay for : US body armour?
search.ebay.co.uk... 24&a6=-24&a56330=-24&a45=-24&alist=a3801%2Ca44%2Ca56328%2Ca6%2Ca51%2Ca56330%2Ca45%2Ca56333&pfmode=1&reqtype=1&gcs=2132&pfid=3180&pf_query=us+body+armo ur&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postcode&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypa ge=search

As more information pours our, more evidence is right in front of you all, that terrible terrorists in Iraq are actually sponsored, recruited, equipped and possibly even trained by Western intelligence agencies.

More evidence? Half of this is laughable, the bombs could have been passed onto the lybians who did supply the IRA for your information.
If you wish to start citing stories about northern ireland atleast read up on the subject but then again you are a information warrior. Everyone should listen to majics "information warfare" pod cast before you read anything on this board....

You guys are off your trollies! I think you don't really know what's going on and from the outset, I have to say that I don't either.

However, what I do know, is that the FRU and a 'super-secret' section of the NI Special Branch were operating in the Province, long before they was officially recognised.

Likewise the Special Air Service Regiment were also operating in the Province long before Harold Wilson announced he was reinforcing them up to full Squadron level around 1969/70.

Regarding the FRU. Certainly, they recruited the very PIRA, IPLO, and INLA terrorists we were fighting on a daily basis.

By recruiting terrorists or their immediate family members, the security services had intelligence on tap - an example of this was Marty McGartland. [He was a brilliant young man who gave the NISB many, many useful leads and tips that prevented an estimated 50 murders by PIRA. Read his book, '50 Dead Men Walking' published by Blake:
(ISBN 1 85782 201 3)]

That is what it was all about. The saving of lives. Unlike the PIRA leaders such as Gerry Adams [Brigade Commander Belfast who sanctioned every bombing and murder] and Martin McGuinness [another brigade commander, and one time leader of the Provo Internal Security Organisation who tortured and murdered suspected double agents]

There most definately was a 'shoot to kill' policy in Northern Ireland, but it was a PIRA policy and it is still in place as the 1999 shooting of McGartland clearly demonstrates.

Let's be quite clear about what is happening in Iraq today. Forget about what is officially going on with SF, Intelligence Units and Counter-Insurgency Units. [To me, they are all doing a magnificent job, risking their lives on a daily basis to prevent terrorists from spreading their particular brand of politics.]

The main problem as I see it, are the countless private security agencies that operate throughout the Middle East. I personally know two of the MDs or CEOs of two British Agencies working in Iraq and, as far as I am aware, they are operating within the law. That in itself, cannot be said of all security companies operating in Iraq.

In those private security companies, the governments [UK/US] have the perfect scapegoats if the brown stuff hits the fan and such operations would, of course, have total deniability.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by fritz]

Originally posted by devilwasp
There is a hell of a diffrence between setting up an intelligence ring inside a terrorist cell than finacing terrorism, but then again anything can be made into a crime by a well trained information warior such as yourself souljah.

Great Points very well done. Plase keep up the good work

You have voted devilwasp for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month

I would give you more if I could really I would.
Time to stop the disinformation agents

terrorism, a word thrown around so much.

Terrorists for defending their country right.

Well as for training your traitor Spies. LOL good luck to you,the place is such a mess who can you trust. that goes for both sides of the war.

Go ahead and train your special joint task force or whatever. It'll only lead to your demise. Just like all those weapons you gave to the infiltrators in the ING just going to turn right back on you.

I do not belive that after all the articles I quoted some people still do not understand. I am writing in English, right? I mean, you people do understand the words I am writing here? But do not worry - there is plenty of more information to back up my claims, that foreign intelligence agencies are right now operating in Iraq - with support of private security contractors - and are actually training, arming and helping terrorists in Iraq to spread more chaos and disorder in this country, to keep it divided and ruled, just as planned.

So fasten your seat belts girls and boys:

The army asked me to make bombs for the IRA, told me I had the Prime Minister's blessing ... then tried to kill me

KEVIN Fulton is very clear about where the orders were coming from. 'I was told that this was sanctioned right at the top,' he says, sipping a Pepsi in the bar of a Glasgow hotel. 'I was told 'there'll be no medals for this, and no recognition, but this goes the whole way to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister knows what you are doing.'

This was 1980, and if Margaret Thatcher knew about the activities of military intelligence agents such as Fulton, then she was also aware her own military officers were planning to infiltrate British soldiers as 'moles' into the IRA. These moles were ordered by their handlers to carry out terrorist crimes in order to keep their cover within the Provos so they could feed information on other leading republicans back to security forces.

British double-agent was in Real IRA's Omagh bomb team

SECURITY forces didn't intercept the Real IRA's Omagh bombing team because one of the terrorists was a British double-agent whose cover would have been blown as an informer if the operation was uncovered.

The security forces were forced to hope that their agent would provide them with intelligence to ensure that the bomb would go off without casualties. In the event, due to blundered telephone warnings, 29 people died on August 15 1998.

The revelations follow claims by another British double-agent in the IRA, Kevin Fulton (not his real name), that he phoned a warning to his RUC handlers 48 hours before the Omagh bombing that the Real IRA was planning an attack and gave details of one of the bombing team and the man's car registration.

Rogue British agents name MI5 bosses in video expose

THE identities of at least 12 of Britain's most senior intelligence officers are to be exposed in a new video made by a team of rogue undercover army agents.

The army agents, who were infiltrated inside the IRA and Sinn Fein, are releasing the video in the Irish Republic as part of a whistle-blowing campaign aimed at exposing the truth behind the Dirty War in Northern Ireland.

As well as revealing the identities of some of the most senior army, police and MI5 officers working in Ulster, the agents also disclose the techniques used to handle agents and expose some of the most shocking operations undertaken by the British security forces in Northern Ireland.

These include claims that MI5 helped one undercover army agent, who was working in deep cover inside the IRA for more than a decade, source infra-red equipment which was used to provide the IRA with state-of-the-art bomb detonation technology.

IRA torturer was in the Royal Marines

HE was one of the most feared men inside the Provisional IRA. To rank-and-file 'volunteers', a knock on the door from John Joe Magee was the equivalent of a visit from the Angel of Death.

However, court documents leaked to the Sunday Herald show that Magee, head of the IRA's infamous 'internal security unit', was trained as a member of Britain's special forces. The IRA's 'torturer-in-chief' was in reality one of the UK's most elite soldiers.

The documents, lodged as part of a court action being taken against the British government by a disgruntled military intelligence agent, name Magee as a 'former member of the Special Boat Squadron'.

Well these articles pretty much speak for themselves and they speak about what kind of dirty warfare the British intelligence were involved in Northern Ireland. As you can see, several Double Agents did admit to be involved in terrorism acts in Northern Ireland - and to top it all, there also plenty of UK's most elite soldiers involved in IRA actions, which only prooves, that MI5 did not just infiltrate IRA to expose it, but was involved in terrorist actions against civilians targets in Northern Ireland, for further divide the people there and to keep the public image of IRA as a terrorist one.

So what connections does MI5/MI6 have to Al-Qaeda?

Al-Qaida suspect 'hidden by UK agents'

The alleged spiritual leader of the al-Qaida terrorist network is living with his wife and children in northern England, in a safe house paid for by the intelligence services, it was claimed yesterday.

Abu Qatada, a Muslim cleric believed by several European countries to be a pivotal figure in international terrorism, disappeared from his west London home in December, before a round up of alleged terrorist suspects. It was rumoured that he had fled abroad.

Time magazine's sensational but bizarre claim is attributed to senior members of European intelligence services.

Britain 'sheltering al-Qaeda leader'

A senior al-Qaeda leader is reportedly being looked after by British intelligence at a safe house in northern England - but security sources are denying the claim.

Abu Qatada is accused by the United States, Spain, France and Algeria of being a key influence in the 11 September attacks on the US.

In April the Sunday Times said Mr Qatada had turned "supergrass" for MI5 - a theory fuelled by the arrests of several Muslim extremists in Germany who had met him.

Now senior European intelligence officials have reportedly told Time Magazine that Mr Qatada and his family are being lodged, fed and clothed by British intelligence services

MI5 wanted me to escape, claims cleric

The London-based Islamic cleric Abu Qatada, accused by America of being a key member of Osama bin Laden's network, claims British security services offered him a chance to escape to Afghanistan.

Abu Qatada, whose Bolton bank account was frozen last week when he was named on a US list of suspected terrorists, told The Observer that MI5 approached intermediaries to offer him a passport and an Iranian visa so he could leave the country.

MI6 'halted bid to arrest bin Laden'

British intelligence paid large sums of money to an al-Qaeda cell in Libya in a doomed attempt to assassinate Colonel Gadaffi in 1996 and thwarted early attempts to bring Osama bin Laden to justice.

The latest claims of MI6 involvement with Libya's fearsome Islamic Fighting Group, which is connected to one of bin Laden's trusted lieutenants, will be embarrassing to the Government, which described similar claims by renegade MI5 officer David Shayler as 'pure fantasy'.

The allegations have emerged in the book Forbidden Truth , published in America by two French intelligence experts who reveal that the first Interpol arrest warrant for bin Laden was issued by Libya in March 1998.

Well Well Well.

What is this?

MI5 and MI6 protecting terrorists?

MI5 and MI6 protecting Al-Qaeda members?

MI5 and MI6 helping Al-Qaeda to Escape to Afganistan?

MI5 and MI6 giving a key member of Osama bin Laden's network Iranian visa?

MI5 and MI6 protecting a wanted man by the United States, Spain, France and Algeria and giving him shelter?

MI5 and MI6 paying up to £100,000 to Al-Qaeda terrorists to assassiante Colonal Gadafi?

Want more?

Put Britain on the list of states sponsoring terrorism

On Oct. 8, 1997, the U.S. State Department, in compliance with the Anti-Terrorism Act of 1996, released a list of 30 Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs), banned from operating on U.S. soil.

Of the 30 groups named, six maintain headquarters in Britain. They are: the Islamic Group (Egypt), Al-Jihad (Egypt), Hamas (Israel, Palestinian Authority), Armed Islamic Group (Algeria, France), Kurdish Workers Party (Turkey), and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (Sri Lanka).

In addition to the six FTOs who have their headquarters in Britain, an additional 16 groups on the State Department's 1997 list either receive funding from groups based in Britain, or receive military training and logistical support from groups operating freely from British soil. Those groups are: the Abu Nidal Organization (Palestinian Authority), Harkat ul-Ansar (India), Mujahideen e Khalq (Iran), Kach (Israel, Palestinian Authority), Kahane Chai (Israel, Palestinian Authority), Abu Sayyaf (Philippines), Hezbollah (Israel, Lebanon), Khmer Rouge (Cambodia), ELN (Colombia), FARC (Colombia), Shining Path (Peru), MRTA (Peru), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Israel, Palestinian Authority), Islamic Jihad-Shaqaqi (Israel, Palestinian Authority), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Israel, Palestinian Authority), PFLP-General Command (Israel, Palestinian Authority).

Well, if you wish I can always dig out some more Information. Now all of you can only imagine what is going on in Iraq and how many so-called "terrorists cells" are actually operated, funded armed by western intellience agencies.

[edit on 12/2/07 by Souljah]

Souljah you realize that the spiritual leader Abu Qatada is in a UK prison?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Officers found the father-of-five in possession of £170,000 cash, including £805 in an envelope labelled "For the Mujahedin in Chechnya" but no charges were brought.

In October 2002 the authorities tracked him down to a council house in south London and took him to Belmarsh Prison.

He was eventually freed on bail in March 2005, but was made subject of a control order to limit his movement and contact with others.

In August he was taken back into custody and the UK government is trying to extradite him to Jordan, where he has been found guilty of terrorism offences in his absence.

His lawyers are expected to argue an agreement with Jordan does not guarantee his safety.

Several European countries are also thought to be trying to extradite him.

In December 2005, Abu Qatada made a video appeal to the kidnappers of British peace activist Norman Kember in Iraq.

The recording, made inside Full Sutton jail, near York, where he was being held pending deportation, was broadcast in the Middle East.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Souljah you realize that the spiritual leader Abu Qatada is in a UK prison?

And do You realize this is named also as the Europe's Al Qaeda Ambassador?

Certainly a guy of his caliber should be detained and interrogated in this alleged war on terrorism, since he has more ties to terror cells then all the people detained in Guantanamo Bay combined. Yet he is not taken anywhere. He is placed in "house arrests". Isn't that a bit light for a so-called Europe's Al Qaeda Ambassador?

Abu Qatada - Europe's Al Qaeda Ambassador

For 8 years, from 1994 to 2002, Al Qaeda’s alleged chief recruiter in Europe, Abu Qatada, was allowed to live undisturbed in West London.

Why did the UK grant Abu Qatada asylum and protect him against extradition requests by other countries ?

Since March 2005, he has been released again and put under "control orders" (house arrest).

Abu Qatada is a radical Sheikh has been London-based through the 1990s and 2000s. He was closely affiliated with the al-Qaeda core in Afghanistan, acting as a recruiter. Videotapes of his sermons were found in the Hamburg apartment of the 9/11 operational leader Mohammed Atta. Abu Qatada has connections to a number of terrorist cells and individuals in Europe. The Paris-based cell that plotted to blow up the US embassy in France in 2001 (Terrorist Incident) was headed by a follower of his. Richard Reid, the attempted shoe bomber, was also a follower. He was linked to a Belgian-based logistics and recruiting cell that became operational starting in 2000 and may still have functioning elements. The cell that carried out the Madrid train attacks attempted to contact him in Belmarsh Prison before they blew themselves up in their apartment in Spain; this may be indicative of a prior relationship between the Sheikh and the cell. Abu Qatada was also convicted in absentia in Jordan (Country Profile) for his role in the thwarted millennium attacks (Terrorist Incident). Though confined to prison, Abu Qatada has a number of loyal followers who still circulate his writings, transcripts of his sermons, and books. He has a substantial Jihadist network and may have underlings or followers involved in this plot. Spanish magistrate Balthasar Garzon has named him “the spiritual head of the Mujahideen in Britain.”

The UK government announced the arrest and expulsion of Abu Qatada and a number of others, but till today nothing seems to be happening.

According to articles in the Times Online, it even seems that those reported "arrested" on August 12th, are still at home under "control orders", being able to go into hiding in the UK to avoid expulsion.

Originally posted by Souljah
And do You realize this is named also as the Europe's Al Qaeda Ambassador?

Certainly a guy of his caliber should be detained and interrogated in this alleged war on terrorism, since he has more ties to terror cells then all the people detained in Guantanamo Bay combined. Yet he is not taken anywhere. He is placed in "house arrests". Isn't that a bit light for a so-called Europe's Al Qaeda Ambassador?

So what? Got many titles on him besides just Europe'a Al Qaeda Ambassador. Many of the links says that Britain's system sucks in dealing with such people, like for example the hook man. Does that mean Britain is protecting him too? And house arrest means he is confined to a house. A UK prison is not the same thing. Don't try to make it look like the UK is protecting him.

someone should learn the history of Northern Ireland and what is happening in Iraq before posting endless amount of unresearched information to make claims that cannot be proven.

myself and other members have provided personal accounts of what happened and even facts of the collusion that took place. Yet, someone who isn't from Northern Ireland or any part of the United Kingdom is basically pissing over our posts and claiming that the UK supported terrorism at the highest level.

i'm not the type to get mad over an internet post, but you've struck a nerve.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by infinite]

Originally posted by infinite
someone should learn the history of Northern Ireland and what is happening in Iraq before posting endless amount of unresearched information to make claims that cannot be proven.

Endless amount of UN-researched informaton?

Well I certainly did take alot of time to come up with all sorts of different sources regarding this topic, and there are links such as BBC, Times, Observer and other news sources. I am sorry, but I think you are letting your opinion to be biased, since your father served in Northern Ireland, so of course you can not allow stories such as this to be proved anything other then false dis-information.

myself and other members have provided personal accounts of what happened and even facts of the collusion that took place. Yet, someone who isn't from Northern Ireland or any part of the United Kingdom is basically pissing over our posts and claiming that the UK supported terrorism at the highest level.

So were you and other members there? And I do not mean your father. Were they involved in secret MI5 operations? Did your father have insight into special false flag operations, to which former MI5 agents admitted later on? And why can't I - who am from former Yugoslavia - speak of Ireland? Does that mean that thousands of other members here, who speak of Iraq and Iran and Syria and Jordan and Lebanon write just a big bowl of "piss"? I understand your loss and your pain and your anger towards IRA. And I understand that this is a delicate matter to talk about. So I appologize if I have offended you or any other member of your family - that was not my intention. Yet this only prooves that you are looking at this matter extremly biased and do not allow even one little change of possibility for my kind of theories and evidence I have presented. I am sorry, but I do belive that UK and MI5 were involved in false-flag terrorist operations in Northen Ireland, and they sure are involved in false-flag terrorist operatons in Iraq.

So I appologize if I have offended you or any other member of your family - that was not my intention

apology accepted

now, let me explain. The acts in Northern Ireland were not false flag, have you heard of the expression "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?" basically, some elements of the security in Northern Ireland use to live by that theory. Thats why you had conllusions.

Plus, the IRA did try to kill the whole UK government back in the 80s in the Brighton hotel bomb, so i doubt the government was involved in false flag operations.

Originally posted by infinite
now, let me explain. The acts in Northern Ireland were not false flag, have you heard of the expression "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?" basically, some elements of the security in Northern Ireland use to live by that theory. Thats why you had conllusions.

Plus, the IRA did try to kill the whole UK government back in the 80s in the Brighton hotel bomb, so i doubt the government was involved in false flag operations.

Hey Dude - I would Like to belive that world goverments are actually doing good and protecting us from harm, but I thought that this forum board was designed to expose such above top secret plans and to expose the real criminals, who are out there killing innocent people. Yes I know the old saying "the enemy of my enemy is a friend". So I shall ask you few more questions and I would really love to see your imput on them:

For example:

MI5 'helped IRA buy bomb parts in US'

Now that is a serious statement, which sure is evidence, that MI5 is helping and funding terrorist organizations to make bombs and kill innocent people.

Denis Nelson?
Brian Nelson?
Stakeknife?

What can you say about those?

Looks like the agents used to infiltrate IRA, the UVF members, actually commited acts of serious crimes, which count as terrorism in most of the books:

NI police colluded with killers

Nuala O'Loan's report said UVF members in the area committed murders and other serious crimes while working as informers for Special Branch.

Army 'colluded' with loyalist killers

Rogue elements within the police and army in Northern Ireland helped loyalist paramilitaries to murder Catholics in the late 1980s, the UK's most senior police officer has said.

The Metropolitan Police Commissioner's report into collusion between the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries also found that military intelligence in Northern Ireland helped to prolong the Troubles.

Both articles above are BBC sources.

What exactly does that mean? Sorry Mate, but to me it looks like false flag operations and UVF members really got deep inside their role of being IRA members and did not want to blow their cover, so they killed a few people?

Or is it possible, that rogue elements withing the police the army the military intelligence did inflitrate IRA, but not with intentions to expose them, but with intentions to make big bad terrorists out of them, by staging false flag attacks on civilians population within Northern Ireland to prolong the troubles there? And ofcourse they were also used to split the IRA itself, and to create an abyss withing the organization to weaken it and to control it via double-agents. Pretty simple rule of Divide and Conquer, ey? Order Out Of Chaos? Kind of scaringly similar to what is going on today in Iraq, which is my entire point of this thread.

Just give it a thought...

[edit on 13/2/07 by Souljah]

no, you do not understand the meaning of "false flag"..

False Flag is a government carrying out an attack to make it look like some other group to spread an agenda. This is a small group in the police giving loyalist groups information to kill republicans. Thats it. That is not false flag, it is getting someone else to do your dirty work. Completely different.

its a HUGE difference. It is not false flag.

Just like the Former Yugoslavia Republic, your native Country right? Governments there operated with militas to kill thousands didn't they? I am correct by saying that YOUR governments did get involved with mass genocide and terrorism against its own citizens? Plus, majority of the arms and explosives in Northern Ireland came from Yugoslavia, did you know that?

with all due respect, don't try and accuse my governments of doing things which the Former Yugoslavia Republic did towards its own people.

Many on this board have explained the collusion that went on in Northern Ireland, it was not false flag operations, even David Icke does not think that and he made up the theory of false flag!

Either start listening to people, who are from that area of the world and grow up under it, listened to reports and know the subject by heart or continue to pretend that the British government is like your former governments.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by infinite]

Originally posted by deltaboy
We know how much influence the Shiite militias have taken control of the police force as well as the Iraqi military. It may be named Iraqi, but its more like kill Sunnis, serve Shiites. I can post a couple of links about the history of the Iraqi police.

Why don't you post a couple of links showing how these specific Policemen were corrupt or infiltrated by a Militia? I'm not interested in hearing about how some of the Police Force has been infiltrated or corrupted -- I know it goes on. But seeing how you asserted that these specific Officers who were shot were either Insurgent infiltrators’, or corrupt, then why don't you post links specifically relating to this incident first, rather than any other? Show how these specific Officers were corrupt.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Why did the SAS kill him? Did the Iraqi police notice that they were British? Could be used for ransom or for bargaining chip. There are many reports of people who are either actually Iraqi police, as well as those who are fake at checkpoints that kidnaps Iraqi civilians and executed them. Would have understand the SAS reaction to kill him.

You're really reaching with these unfounded assertions, now, aren't you? How could the Police notice they were British and try to capture them as a 'bargaining chip' when they were being shot at (and hit) by 'Afghan' attired Men in a Car speeding towards their Checkpoint? The Police wouldn't have chased them and caught if they hadn't been trying to play Insurgent.

This is on topic, before you say anything. I'm just trying to show how we British don't just train Terrorists, we also play the role -- on occasion.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Speculation maybe, but that Iraqi police unit has a known history of being members of the Shiite militia. Wearing insignias don't mean crap, it justs pretty much tells you that you are a member of the British military and go kidnap me, not go and release me.

And did they say they were members of the Iraqi resistance?

What on Earth are you talking about? You said:

Originally posted by deltaboy
If caught, they could be legally executed for not wearing any insignia, which is why the British reacted fast to save them.

To which I replied:

Speculation. They were arrested for dressing as Iraqi's and shooting Iraqi Police, not for not wearing any insignia. You think that if they had been wearing insignia, they would have been released? For obvious reasons, I think it would be quite obvious that they were not Iraqi resistance.

Let's not be silly here.

So what are you saying? You’re not making a lot of sense. It seems to me that you’re just making it up as you go along.

Originally posted by deltaboy
And o yeah, I remember that there is a story where the British military blew up a police station in southern Iraq after finding tortured prisoners, and the Iraqi police unit was disbanded.

Originally posted by deltaboy
And o yeah, I remember that there is a story where the British military blew up a police station in southern Iraq after finding tortured prisoners, and the Iraqi police unit was disbanded.

Oh how noble of us! Look, this is irrelevant, really. The Police in question arrested and detained Two of our Special Air Service Soldiers for staging Insurgent activity. No evidence has been provided that these Police were corrupt, or Insurgents, and our Soldiers were not tortured. They were detained and were being put through the legal process that we are supposed to be upholding. We didn't blow up a Police station because we found tortured Prisoners in this case, we illegally smashed down a jail and intentionally aided in the escape of Two accused Murderers. It's funny how we are supposed to be installing our 'high moral values' in Iraq, yet we just blatantly disregard them ourselves, at home and abroad. Well, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious, anyway.

Regarding the incident you brought up about our moral high ground in destroying a Police station where Prisoners were tortured, I thought I would just give a brief mention of documented British complicity in torture over the years in; Northern Ireland, Kenya, Malaya, Palestine, The Persian Gulf, Cyprus, Brunei, The British Cameroons, Borneo/Malaysia, British Guiana, Aden (now South Yemen?) and who knows where else. Some of those were a while ago now, but I'll bet anything I have that it still goes on to this day. So seeing how you like to bring up a load of other incidents in an attempt to prove something from an unrelated case -- you can eat that.

Originally posted by BlueRaja

The fact is, you don't know what their mission was

No, I don't, but neither do you! I can tell you what they weren't doing, though, they weren't doing good. No Sir, they weren't doing any good at all.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
only that -"The Arab garb is obviously undeniable proof that the operation, whatever its ultimate intention, was staged so that any eyewitnesses would believe it had been carried out by Iraqis."

Exactly! And what may I ask would be the point of driving at an Iraqi Police Checkpoint in a Car full of explosives, shooting Police, whilst staging the whole event 'so that any eyewitnesses would believe it had been carried out by Iraqi's?' You've just admitted they were setting Iraqi's up. Couple that with shooting Police Officers dead and you have a serious incident on your hands. Not only did they kill friendly’s, but they tried to frame the Insurgency for it!

I think it's safe to imply that their orders here were a bit... controversial -- shall we say.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
This is called military deception. This doesn't mean they were on their way to killing Brits or Americans.

Who said anything about being on their way to killing British or Americans? You said:

Originally posted by BlueRaja
They most certainly ARE NOT conducting attacks against friendlies

And I have shown you that they are. The Iraqi Police are friendly’s, are they not? I know some are corrupt, and they have been infiltrated in places, but neither you nor anyone else have provided a shred of proof indicating that these particular Police were involved in anything other than their regular Policing duties.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
As for my opinion of Alex Jones- he is the sombrero of a$$hats.

Irrelevant.




[edit on 13-2-2007 by MassiveOrigamiRacoon]

Originally posted by infinite
no, you do not understand the meaning of "false flag"..

Oh, enlighten me then...

False Flag is a government carrying out an attack to make it look like some other group to spread an agenda. This is a small group in the police giving loyalist groups information to kill republicans. Thats it. That is not false flag, it is getting someone else to do your dirty work. Completely different.

Well have you read the articles I posted? It does not say that those double agents "just" provided information, but that they also provided them with weapons, explosives, detonators and on occasion they even killed some of the people themselves. Now that IS considered a false flag, since

Just like the Former Yugoslavia Republic, your native Country right? Governments there operated with militas to kill thousands didn't they? I am correct by saying that YOUR governments did get involved with mass genocide and terrorism against its own citizens? Plus, majority of the arms and explosives in Northern Ireland came from Yugoslavia, did you know that?

I can not deny that, since goverments of Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia were all involved in filthy massacres and they all supported militias and death squads, which killed thousands of innocent civilians in order to create "ethnicly clean" areas. I even know a few people from Slovenia - soldiers - who went down to the conflict areas to fight for money yes. But you have to understand, that there was a civil war raging in former Yugoslavia and you have to understand that many of the fractions were infiltrated by foreign intelligence agencies such as MI5, CIA and former KGB who all sent their own "terrorist" groups down there to do the filthy work and to further "balkanize" Yugoslavia, as if violence between domestic religious groups and nationalities were not enough. But then again, you are not from former Yugoslavia, which means - as you have said before - that you do not have the right to talk about that topic.

with all due respect, don't try and accuse my governments of doing things which the Former Yugoslavia Republic did towards its own people.

I think goverments of former Yugslavia are pussies compared to what YOUR goverment is doing in YOUR name and calling that democracy and war on terror and god-knows-what. I can list a number of assassination attempt upon former president of Yugoslavia Tito, performed and conducted by MI6, CIA, KGB, MOSSAD and a number of other intelligence agencies in the period after WW2 - so how many times did Yugoslav agents attack United Kingdom?

Many on this board have explained the collusion that went on in Northern Ireland, it was not false flag operations, even David Icke does not think that and he made up the theory of false flag!

Sure it was not - how could I be so ignorant to think that intelligence agencies would have conducted these operations so well that nobody would belive that they were the ones in charge in the first place. The very meaning of FALSE FLAG is, that the goverment of these double-tripple agents is never ever accused of this crimes and acts of terrorism then. If everybody knew they were false flag operations, they kind of would not be so secret anymore, ey?

Either start listening to people, who are from that area of the world and grow up under it, listened to reports and know the subject by heart or continue to pretend that the British government is like your former governments.

I shall belive my own research, which I did in here well I think, since I have found many parallels between actions in Northern Ireland and what is happening today in Iraq. Funny thing is, that lots of the topics I opened up in this forum board later turned out to be true and then nobody even bothered to talk about them anymore. I wonder if the same thing will happen with this certain topic. I always hate to be right, since that means that our world, alongside with all of our goverments is severly corrupt, wicked, evil and very, VERY dangerous to EVERYBODY - you included.

[edit on 13/2/07 by Souljah]

Originally posted by MassiveOrigamiRacoon

No, I don't, but neither do you! I can tell you what they weren't doing, though, they weren't doing good. No Sir, they weren't doing any good at all.

Yeah as you say its a speculation as you have keep mentioning but it seems to me that you reached a conclusion that they were doing something BAAAAAD. And what are the reasons that qualifies BAAAAD?

Exactly! And what may I ask would be the point of driving at an Iraqi Police Checkpoint in a Car full of explosives, shooting Police, whilst staging the whole event 'so that any eyewitnesses would believe it had been carried out by Iraqi's?' You've just admitted they were setting Iraqi's up. Couple that with shooting Police Officers dead and you have a serious incident on your hands. Not only did they kill friendly’s, but they tried to frame the Insurgency for it!

As I mentioned before when American SOF troops wearing Afghan garb in Afghanistan, does that mean they are trying to initiate blame on so called "resistance fighters?"

I think it's safe to imply that their orders here were a bit... controversial -- shall we say.

Theres nothing controversial about wearing something different.

And I have shown you that they are. The Iraqi Police are friendly’s, are they not? I know some are corrupt, and they have been infiltrated in places, but neither you nor anyone else have provided a shred of proof indicating that these particular Police were involved in anything other than their regular Policing duties.

archive.gulfnews.com...

Basra: British forces killed seven gunmen and blew up the headquarters of the police serious crimes unit in southern Basra yesterday in a raid to rescue prisoners who were about to be executed, the British military said.

Calling the police station a centre of "criminal enterprise" and a symbol of oppression for the city's residents, the military said the building was demolished with explosives after a pre-dawn assault by around 1,000 troops backed by tanks.

Many of its 127 prisoners, all suspected criminals, were found crowded into a small cell, living in "appalling conditions", the military said. Many had crushed feet or hands and gunshot wounds to the knee.

english.china.com...

A witness, anonymously, told Xinhua by telephone that the unit is controlled by Sadr movement, led by Shiite radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, and Fadhila Shiite party. Both are parts of the United Iraqi Alliance, a leading Shiite bloc in the Iraqi parliament and the

ca.news.yahoo.com...

The military called the police headquarters a symbol of oppression for the city's residents and said the unit was suspected of torturing and murdering prisoners. Many of the 127 people rescued - all of whom were suspected criminals - were crowded together in a small cell, living in "appalling conditions," the military said. But the Basra council has stopped co-operating with the military in protest of what the council described as an illegal raid. Mohammed al Abadi, head of the city's council, said the Christmas Day operation was in violation of earlier agreements and the council had not been forewarned. A British military spokesman countered that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had voiced support for the mission to destroy the station, which had allegedly been carrying out illegal activities. Maj. Charles Burbidge said al-Maliki "made a very clear indication that he wanted the serious crimes unit to be disbanded." The operation came days after Iraqi officers were arrested Friday on suspicions of leading death squads. The unit is also accused of being responsible for murdering both local and international troops.

www.commondreams.org.../headlines05/0925-03.htm

Not only did it appear that lethal force had to be used to suppress the riot, causing an unknown number of Iraqi deaths, it was also claimed that the two undercover men had opened fire when they were stopped at a police roadblock, killing at least one policeman. There were also sharply conflicting accounts of why troops crashed into the station: to determine where the pair were, according to one version, or to rescue a negotiating team, according to another. The surveillance team had been handed over to militants and were found at a house in the district, the military said, but Iraqis denied this, saying the building was within the compound.

Whichever details are correct, the result has been a rupture in whatever trust existed between the civil authorities and the military occupiers in Basra. British troops kept out of the centre of the city in the wake of the violence. "As the threat increases ... we don't take as many risks," said one private. "We keep things to a minimum."

The affair has crystallised long-held suspicions that Britain has largely "kept the lid" on southern Iraq by avoiding American-style confrontation, at the price of allowing increasingly sinister forces to gain a foothold. These forces are still a long way from having control, but Britain's problem is that it has responsibility for the region without having real power. As one soldier put it: "There are heightened tensions because of the constitution and perceived lack of progress - various factions have been complaining about that. At the end of the day we are at the end of the line: blame the security forces."

Conspiracy theories, always rife in Iraq, have been fuelled dramatically by last week's events, according to Mazin Younis of the Iraqi League, an alliance of Iraqi exiles based in Britain. He has close contacts with Basra. "Everyone you talk to [thinks the two undercover men] were up to something very bad... to kill somebody or destroy a building, and let us battle against each other," he said.

"Being in civilian clothing, wearing Arab clothes, made them look like spies. In Iraq, when you mention the word spy, people really get agitated. Even under Saddam Hussein, people were patriotic, they didn't like foreign spies in their country. So this image is very much of clandestine and secretive action."

www.cnn.com...

Iraq's National Security Adviser, Dr Mouwafak al-Rubaie, said he did not know how far security forces had been undermined by insurgents.

He told the BBC: "Our Iraqi security forces in general, police in particular, in many parts of Iraq, I have to admit, have been penetrated by some of the insurgents, some of the terrorists as well.

"I can't deny this. We are putting in place a very scrupulous, very meticulous vetting procedure in the process of recruiting a new batch of police and Iraqi army, which will, if you like, clean our security forces as well as stop any penetration in future from the insurgents and terrorists."

Al-Rubaie added: "I can't give you a percentage of the extent of the penetration, but I have to admit that the Iraqi security forces are penetrated, to what extent I don't know."

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

BASRA, Iraq — The most powerful and feared institution here in southern Iraq's largest city is a shadowy force of 200 to 300 police officers known collectively as the Jameat, who dominate the local police and who are said to murder and torture at will. They answer to the leaders of Basra's sectarian militias.

The militia infiltration in Basra's police force and government goes far beyond the Jameat; even the Basra police chief has said he trusts only a quarter of his own men. But the Jameat may be the most ominous example of the degree to which militias have come to dominate Basra.

The extent of its power became clear in September when a force of British troops in armored vehicles tried to rescue two special-operations soldiers who had been abducted and taken to the Jameat's headquarters in a police building in southwestern Basra.

According to three British soldiers there that day, a mob of 1,000 to 2,000 people — not the 200 or so first reported — rapidly gathered near the station, which the British troops had heavily damaged in an effort to free the captives. The soldiers were ultimately rescued from a house nearby, where they were being held by Shiite militiamen.

Like many other militias, the Jameat is involved in a wide variety of nefarious activities, according to other Iraqi police and officials, from the killings of former Baathists, to the kidnapping and murder of political rivals, to straightforward criminal pursuits. The major difference between the Jameat and other militias, Iraqis say, is that its members act with impunity.

"They consider themselves the No. 1 power in Basra," said one police commander, who requested anonymity out of fear of retribution against him and his family. "The people who like to murder and torture come from Internal Affairs," he said. "They get police uniforms, police vehicles and police identification."

Many police officers feel the same, said a British commander in Basra. "All of the police stations complain about abduction of their men and torture by the Jameat," said the officer, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the subject.

Men with police uniforms and identification regularly abduct and kill Sunni Arabs, said Sheik Abdul Karim al-Dosari, leader of a local arm of the Iraqi Islamic Party, one of the largest Sunni parties. "Every week there are one or two incidents where the police come to arrest people, and then we find the bodies of these people."

Here some info you may like to look at.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

On the streets, residents speak of increasing hostility toward the British. "Before, all people liked the British forces," said Fadel Mohsen, 41, who owns two household-goods stores. Like many in Basra, Mohsen has accepted the version of events put forth by the militias — a baseless claim that the two abducted British soldiers were Israeli spies.

Wow, now they are Israeli spies.